Smaug
Well-known member
No one seems to know except Juiced.
Glad you are having your fun with your new eBike.....
1. eBike "Horn's" : havw nwvwe used it - have nevewr heard one used in the wild - like the old phrase goes - "useless as ttt's on a board" - I carry a pocket airhorn for does or if I ride over to one of my friend's homes and need to get their attention
2. frack Plug-in-headlights" - if you want Real Light on a Real Night Ride -
CLICK HERE RECHARGEABLE LED LIGHT BAR KEPLER & RIPCURRENT
1. eBike "Horn's" : havw nwvwe used it - have nevewr heard one used in the wild - like the old phrase goes - "useless as ttt's on a board" - I carry a pocket airhorn for does or if I ride over to one of my friend's homes and need to get their attention
2. frack Plug-in-headlights" - if you want Real Light on a Real Night Ride -
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DieselTech
Well-known member
I'm actually wondering if that is a voltage stepdown box/convertor for your USB outlets or possibly for the lights. That's my best guess.
1. The LED headlight bar is sown running off its interrnal rechargeable battery. These are "real world photos" and not staged. The best 5-LED model on eBay - and the one shown in the link Iis the same in the photos - is the mdel suppplied with2-handlebar clamps - ther model offered with 1-handlebar clamp is not the same brightness.
2. If you want to add USB or USB "charging ports" to the handlebars - there are a variety of 12v-to-5.2V USB/USC-C handlebar ports available - if you tap off the pre-existing headlight wire remember you "migght get" 1.0-2.0 amps (dang "skinny" wire"). On some of my eBikes/eScooters with XLR battery cgarging poirts I wun the adaper to pull off the battery direct-connect. CLICK HERE EXAMPLE 12v-TO-USB/USB-C
2. If you want to add USB or USB "charging ports" to the handlebars - there are a variety of 12v-to-5.2V USB/USC-C handlebar ports available - if you tap off the pre-existing headlight wire remember you "migght get" 1.0-2.0 amps (dang "skinny" wire"). On some of my eBikes/eScooters with XLR battery cgarging poirts I wun the adaper to pull off the battery direct-connect. CLICK HERE EXAMPLE 12v-TO-USB/USB-C
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Smaug
Well-known member
You've showed me that light bar before. It looks good and bright, but there are a lot of cables and hoses that would block a lot of it on my bike. I think I need to get a smaller single LED model and mount it such that it fires between the cables and hoses.
You can kind of see it in this view:
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Smaug
Well-known member
Ope, you guys missed the sale, they're back up to $2500. I guess that means they're down to their last couple dozen in stock.
The helmet lock came, I'm still mulling over a place to mount it. I'm still dilly-dallying about the headlight, but I ought to pick one soon, since it's dark all the time now. Rode it home in the dark yesterday and it was iffy. Today, it was snowing when I left, so I took the WRX to work. Going to take my daughter snowboard shopping after work.
One of my colleagues noticed it yesterday and asked if I got another eBike. Said it's like I have a disease, hehehe.
A guy on a Juiced eBikes Facebook group provided a link to this charger:
A pair of them would charge the bike in a couple hours.
I am not a fan of "fast charging" - "heat" is one enemy for eBike LiOn batteries.
eBike "brands" normally spec 2amp/3amp chargers to not "overheat" the battery during charging.
That 2amp/3amp charger safely gives you "overnight"charging even if you have ridden/discharged that battery down to 10%.
Putting a 8amp charger to that same battery - sure cuts charging time 75% - but the killer is the added heat generated in that battery during that shorter charge cycle - reduces the battery life and reduces battery output faster over time.
In the NYC cases of Battery Fires - "most" of these trace back to high-amp/multiple charging of batteries for Couriers/Food-Delivery.
"Slow is Good" -
eBike "brands" normally spec 2amp/3amp chargers to not "overheat" the battery during charging.
That 2amp/3amp charger safely gives you "overnight"charging even if you have ridden/discharged that battery down to 10%.
Putting a 8amp charger to that same battery - sure cuts charging time 75% - but the killer is the added heat generated in that battery during that shorter charge cycle - reduces the battery life and reduces battery output faster over time.
In the NYC cases of Battery Fires - "most" of these trace back to high-amp/multiple charging of batteries for Couriers/Food-Delivery.
"Slow is Good" -
Smaug
Well-known member
Normally, I would agree with you.
However, I do have the data for my specific batteries. {LINK} These battery packs are made from 6P cell clusters, so the specified charge current is safely multiplied by 6 times the charge current per cell. I don't know what kind of cells are in this pack exactly, but if it is made from 18650 cells, (which are small by today's standard) a common standard (slow) charge current is 1.25 A. (Samsung INR18650-25R) Multiply that by 6 and we get a 7.5 A standard charge current. I believe this pack is made from 21700 cells which are bigger and can charge even faster. (2 A standard charge current) Since Juiced specifies an 8 A charge current is allowed, we can take that to the bank. If they thought it would affect their warranty liability, they wouldn't do it. 8 A is probably still within their chosen cells' standard charge spec.
Fast charge current spec on that aforementioned cell is 4 A, which yields a maximum charge current of 24 A. Charging at that rate will generate significant heat and reduce the cells' life. 8 A is not really pushing it.
Let us not guess though. Juiced specifies a standard charge current of 4 A and a max. of 8 A. This is very conservative even with very old cell tech.
It's not universally applicable. Remember that these are big, 19.2 Ah 6P packs. Something smaller with fewer parallel cells per cluster would be different.
Note also in their spec sheet that they can be charged between 0-50°C. (32-122°F) So the common recommendation to charge at 50°F or above is ultra-conservative too.
DieselTech
Well-known member
Wont your battery deteriorate quicker/ wont last as long if you are using higher amperage charge rates? Sounds like a win win for juiced if you charge at higher amperage. Causes you to buy another battery sooner than expected.
addertooth
Well-known member
I will throw in that the battery management system (BMS) has a maximum current it can handle for charging.
Here is a picture of the BMS in one of my battery packs.
In case your high Mandarin is sketchy, it can deliver 35 amps to the load, and a charge current of up to 5 amps.
Here is a picture of the BMS in one of my battery packs.
In case your high Mandarin is sketchy, it can deliver 35 amps to the load, and a charge current of up to 5 amps.
Smaug
Well-known member
Yes, but not appreciably until you exceed the standard charge rate of the cells. In this case, I think that would be at least 7.5 A. I would need to know what cells they use to be sure, though...
Yes, a good point! The cells are just one part of the system and a safety certified battery pack like mine will have a BMS that MUST limit charge current. We can probably assume then that Juiced's BMS limits it to 8A, per their spec sheet in my previous post.
I notice from your pic that your pack's cells are 21700, which means a 2 A/cell charge current is perfectly safe. (and yours probably has multiples of that per parallel cluster too)
Everyone here is entitled to there own opinion - if you want to investigate have at it.
It's the "battery pack's internal temperature" I am discussing here - what some enthusiast/techs call the 5th wire - since going forward at some point the internal pack termp will be communicated the the charger - at that time that will be a win/win.
Whatever dude - a 8amp charger will charge in 25% of the time as a 2amp charger - and probably cut your useful battery life by - oh in the range of 35%".
If you really/really need that quicker charge - let's say as a courier or food delivery - go for it,
If you DON'T NEED QUICK CHARGE - THEN DON"T DO IT - Sloooow Is Best buddy.
Let's call the battery $600 - do you want to cut its useful life by 35%-40% using a $60 8amp Ego-Tool !
Between my eBikes and eScooter's - I have $12K invested in quality batteries - and I DON'T NEED QUICKER CHARGING IF THAT REDUCES USEFUL LIFE - do you ?
I have invested in the BEST eBike Charger - actually 2 - look up Grin Satiator.
It's the "battery pack's internal temperature" I am discussing here - what some enthusiast/techs call the 5th wire - since going forward at some point the internal pack termp will be communicated the the charger - at that time that will be a win/win.
Whatever dude - a 8amp charger will charge in 25% of the time as a 2amp charger - and probably cut your useful battery life by - oh in the range of 35%".
If you really/really need that quicker charge - let's say as a courier or food delivery - go for it,
If you DON'T NEED QUICK CHARGE - THEN DON"T DO IT - Sloooow Is Best buddy.
Let's call the battery $600 - do you want to cut its useful life by 35%-40% using a $60 8amp Ego-Tool !
Between my eBikes and eScooter's - I have $12K invested in quality batteries - and I DON'T NEED QUICKER CHARGING IF THAT REDUCES USEFUL LIFE - do you ?
I have invested in the BEST eBike Charger - actually 2 - look up Grin Satiator.
Papa K
Member
A check on the charger on the big river site also showcases several options in that range. Much faster charging, much less money anyone used any of these? Most are 4-5 amp, in-line with what juiced offers (2 and 4 amp).
Slow charging can extend the life of an ebike battery. Slow charging uses low voltage, generates less heat, and experiences less energy loss over long distances. Slow charging can extend the battery's cycle life to more than 3,000 times.
Here are some other tips to extend the life of an ebike battery:
Here are some other tips to extend the life of an ebike battery:
- Store it partially charged: If you're not going to ride your ebike for a few weeks or longer, it's better to store the bike at less than fully charged.
- Keep the charge between 30-80%: Use the slowest charger you can.
- Charge after every ride: This can ensure that the battery remains in good condition up to 3,000 charge cycles
- Reduced energy storage capacity
- A shorter range
- A higher frequency of battery charges
Smaug
Well-known member
I hear you on all points, fabbrisd. My point is that what might be considered "pushing it" on a 3P pack is NOT pushing it on a 6P pack. On a 6P pack, 4 A is slow charging and 8 A isn't pushing it much, because each CELL is not getting that much current, since there are so many in a cluster. You are certainly welcome to stick to super slow charging currents to milk the maximum life out of your packs. I will do that most of the time too. Most of the time, I'm home and I plan ahead. I slow charge (2 A) to ~80%, discharge to ~20%.
...but m@ has me thinking that I can double my range and go on bigger adventures if I bring a pair of fast chargers along.
For example, I'm thinking of making an eBike expedition up to visit my friend in Milwaukee, which is 40-45 miles from me here in Kenosha. I might be able to get there and back on one charge of my Juiced HyperScrambler 2 if I go 15 mph the whole way, but there are some BORING stretches where I'd prefer to go 30 and some stretches along the shoulder of a faster road where I'd prefer to be going 30, and that will move my "up to 110 miles" range down to more like 30 or 40. What if, on those rare occasions, I had a pair of faster chargers, so the bike can be topping off while I visit, preparing for the return trip in the 20-30 mph range?
Papa K: In response to your post, here are two that I'm looking at on Amazon:
Cheap option; two for $80:
Expensive option, two for $140:
The 8 A chargers is starting to get big and expensive enough that I wouldn't want to take it along, much less two of them. Maybe better to have two of the 4 A chargers; half the cost, half the size, slower charging is easier on the packs.
I don't have that particular cheap one, but I do have an adjustable output one similar to it that I got from aliexpress.com and it works fine. It's not ruggedly built though. The housing feels a bit cheap and with the cooling fan, that's a bit of extra delicacy too.
m@ is working on me to get Mean Well LED drivers/power supplies. They are a lot more expensive, but don't need cooling fans and are built for a longer life.
...but m@ has me thinking that I can double my range and go on bigger adventures if I bring a pair of fast chargers along.
For example, I'm thinking of making an eBike expedition up to visit my friend in Milwaukee, which is 40-45 miles from me here in Kenosha. I might be able to get there and back on one charge of my Juiced HyperScrambler 2 if I go 15 mph the whole way, but there are some BORING stretches where I'd prefer to go 30 and some stretches along the shoulder of a faster road where I'd prefer to be going 30, and that will move my "up to 110 miles" range down to more like 30 or 40. What if, on those rare occasions, I had a pair of faster chargers, so the bike can be topping off while I visit, preparing for the return trip in the 20-30 mph range?
Papa K: In response to your post, here are two that I'm looking at on Amazon:
Cheap option; two for $80:
Expensive option, two for $140:
The 8 A chargers is starting to get big and expensive enough that I wouldn't want to take it along, much less two of them. Maybe better to have two of the 4 A chargers; half the cost, half the size, slower charging is easier on the packs.
I don't have that particular cheap one, but I do have an adjustable output one similar to it that I got from aliexpress.com and it works fine. It's not ruggedly built though. The housing feels a bit cheap and with the cooling fan, that's a bit of extra delicacy too.
m@ is working on me to get Mean Well LED drivers/power supplies. They are a lot more expensive, but don't need cooling fans and are built for a longer life.
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Smaug
Well-known member
A couple of data points today.
On the commute to work, I was riding on flat ground with a full battery, at full throttle, 31 mph. Power used: 1500 W.
I wondered how much less it would draw if I slowed to 25 mph. It cut the power draw exactly in half, right around 750 W. The moral of that story is that those last 6 mph are pretty expensive! Next, I'll see where it is at 20 mph. I guess that will be the sweet spot for maximum range while also making decent time.
The motorcycle helmet is almost perfect for winter riding here. I would like to add the chin curtain, but then there would be less airflow over the inside of the face shield and it would fog easier. The helmet lock added to the handlebar was also a good call, as was the charging timer.
On the commute to work, I was riding on flat ground with a full battery, at full throttle, 31 mph. Power used: 1500 W.
I wondered how much less it would draw if I slowed to 25 mph. It cut the power draw exactly in half, right around 750 W. The moral of that story is that those last 6 mph are pretty expensive! Next, I'll see where it is at 20 mph. I guess that will be the sweet spot for maximum range while also making decent time.
The motorcycle helmet is almost perfect for winter riding here. I would like to add the chin curtain, but then there would be less airflow over the inside of the face shield and it would fog easier. The helmet lock added to the handlebar was also a good call, as was the charging timer.
Smaug
Well-known member
I did a little more fine-tuning and upgrades to the bike today:
- Removed the OEM left mirror. (never mounted the right one)
- Added a MirrCycle bar-end mirror to replace it
- Adjusted the twist grip shifter so the current gear # is viewable
- Mounted the accessory headlight
- I also mounted the alarm and an Apple AirTag in the bike, but didn't cover it in the video as I don't want to show crooks where to look. ;-)
Smaug
Well-known member
I decided to let the faster charger issue go for awhile and see whether I can get by with 2 A chargers in my situation. Here's an example of why I'm considering it:
One night this week, my wife and I met at a place 5.5 miles away for a last-minute date night. Since I had not planned on it, I started my day with just under half a charge, (I have 52 V, 38.4 Ah total) and of course it's cold out in Wisconsin right now, so that brings me down a notch as well. I went home after work and could only plug it in for 1:20. I went to the place at 20-25 mph and was down to 20% when I got there. I went home at only 20 mph so I wouldn't run it down too low or end up pushing.
More on the charging: These packs are 6P, so an 8 A charge current only yields 1.3 A of current per cell. That's still considered slow charging, at least by power tool battery standards and by mfr. specification. (standard charge current on decent 21700 cells is 2 A per cell)
The accessory headlight I bought gives a good improvement when added to the stock headlight's high beam. However, the stock headlight's high beam is more focused, as it has an optic it goes through. I need to go ahead with the mod to grind one or both of the battery slots to allow me to aim the stock headlight. Here's the headlight: (click for bigger)
One thing worth noting on this and other multiple-LED headlights is that the 1200 Lumen rating is with all LEDs on max. It makes it sound like the effectiveness is additive, but it's not the same as one 1200 Lumen LED. This light has two flood LEDs in yellow color temperature and one spot LED in white color temperture. the Spot LED is 800 Lumens, so that's about how effective it is as a headlight. Having the flood LEDs on at the same time doesn't extend the reach, which is what's needed on a headlight.
What that means to you is if you're looking for a supplementary headlight, look for one with a single spot-focused LED that's super-bright. If it has multiple LEDs, read into the specs to figure out how bright the spot LEDs are. If you can find one with high power LEDs and an refracting (lens) optic, that's ideal. (mine uses reflectors) I may continue the search and move this one to a slower eBike.
I've decided to return this light, not because of the above, but because the seller pictures the light with two mounts, but only includes one. That's dishonest and unacceptable. I left a 1-star review accordingly and will use Kohl's drop-off return.
One night this week, my wife and I met at a place 5.5 miles away for a last-minute date night. Since I had not planned on it, I started my day with just under half a charge, (I have 52 V, 38.4 Ah total) and of course it's cold out in Wisconsin right now, so that brings me down a notch as well. I went home after work and could only plug it in for 1:20. I went to the place at 20-25 mph and was down to 20% when I got there. I went home at only 20 mph so I wouldn't run it down too low or end up pushing.
More on the charging: These packs are 6P, so an 8 A charge current only yields 1.3 A of current per cell. That's still considered slow charging, at least by power tool battery standards and by mfr. specification. (standard charge current on decent 21700 cells is 2 A per cell)
The accessory headlight I bought gives a good improvement when added to the stock headlight's high beam. However, the stock headlight's high beam is more focused, as it has an optic it goes through. I need to go ahead with the mod to grind one or both of the battery slots to allow me to aim the stock headlight. Here's the headlight: (click for bigger)
One thing worth noting on this and other multiple-LED headlights is that the 1200 Lumen rating is with all LEDs on max. It makes it sound like the effectiveness is additive, but it's not the same as one 1200 Lumen LED. This light has two flood LEDs in yellow color temperature and one spot LED in white color temperture. the Spot LED is 800 Lumens, so that's about how effective it is as a headlight. Having the flood LEDs on at the same time doesn't extend the reach, which is what's needed on a headlight.
What that means to you is if you're looking for a supplementary headlight, look for one with a single spot-focused LED that's super-bright. If it has multiple LEDs, read into the specs to figure out how bright the spot LEDs are. If you can find one with high power LEDs and an refracting (lens) optic, that's ideal. (mine uses reflectors) I may continue the search and move this one to a slower eBike.
I've decided to return this light, not because of the above, but because the seller pictures the light with two mounts, but only includes one. That's dishonest and unacceptable. I left a 1-star review accordingly and will use Kohl's drop-off return.
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these guys have chargers lol
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