eMoped Thread

[ezl]

In the absence of a subforum to discuss this fast-growing segment, I'm creating this thread.

I find eMopeds fascinating. There aren't as many of them out yet as what we traditionally think of as an eBike, but they seem to be growing fast.

Here are some discussion points:

• The have the ABILITY to be pedaled, but that will not be their primary use (much like traditional mopeds)
• They have the speed to replace a traditional moped. Traditional mopeds in my area were limited to 25 mph. I'm thinking of two versions of fuel powered mopeds: 1) Traditional moped. They had pedals, a small two-stroke engine and were speed limited to 25 mph.
  2) the Honda Metropolitan. This is more of a a castrated 49.5cc scooter. It was limited to 25 mph. (the regular 49.5 cc version would go 38 mph)
• They don't yet have the range to replace a traditional moped. Even with a lot of expensive batteries to get range up to the 100 mile mark, it would then take many hours to recharge them, as opposed to a 5 minute fill-up.
• How about cost: moped vs. eMoped?
• How about legal questions of eMoped vs. moped in your area?
  - In WI, Class 3 requires the rider to be 16+
  - In WI, Class 1 & 2 cannot be registered or taxed (it's silent on Class 3 or above) They are treated exactly like a purely mechanical bicycle.
  - In WI, Class 3 can be assisted up to 28 mph
  - In WI, anything above a 750 W motor or motorized/assisted past 28 mph is no longer defined as an eBike
• How about enforcement?
• Are you thinking of getting an eMoped? Why? Why not? If not, would you EVER be open to one or are you digging your heels in?
• Price issues, comparisons to other motorized vehicles, etc.

Hi, I use the EMoped as a utility bike and 2 other bikes that are gasbikes that I built. The 212cc gasbike is a real 6+ horse for power, not
stock using a Japanese VM-22 carburetor for reliability and performance. If not used carefully could get you killed which will run 70+ mph
on GPS. I would never run it on the roads in this area at high speed. Since it does not have full suspension like a motorcycle which would
be many times more safer.

A EScooter the "Alien Rides Bull K6" will crack 60+ mph which is a very addictive rush will blow away a SurRon or anything comparable PLUS a Tesla S3 on acceleration can't stay with it! That Scooter is a 134v. (cut-back) to a limit for safety withe 2-wheel drive motors which provide
excelled acceleration that is dangerously addictive to owners. The Scooter sits low and is dangerous since it is hard to see by other vehicles.
Some of the fellas that own it are really afraid to open it up for wide open acceleration so only experienced motorcyclists should ever own one.
MrCentralDriver on YT has one and he is foolhardy enough to open one up and I suspect he is afraid of running it since he is a speed nut that reviews fast Ebikes along with the SurRon. Would a SurRon stay with one in a dragrace? The SurRon would be left eating the dust from one of them. The fella also owns a Tesla and the fella that sold him that EScooter probably got rid of it because of his temptation to run it to the limit.
Young fellas need to stay away from this EScooter unless they want to commit suicide! Fun to own if you are wealthy and foolhardy and I had a
750cc Kawasaki H2 so I know how they can get you in trouble especially with the law and Speed will kill you faster and running slow will extend your life!

 

[ezl]

For my part, I'm on the fence.

I have a Class 3 eBike now. (Aventon Level.2) It looks enough like a mechanical bike and when there's no one else on the bike paths, I occasionally will let it rip up to 28 mph.

I'm thinking about an eMoped (would literally be classified as a moped or motorcycle if unlocked) It's particularly tempted because the highest speed limit toward the center of my city is 30 mph. 28 is doable. 35 would allow me to not slow traffic down.

The one I'm leaning toward now is the Revv 1 by Ride1up:

Revv 1 Moped-Style Electric Bike | Ride1Up Ebikes

Moped-style electric bike with multi-class speeds and all-terrain capabilities. Rugged moped performance at a value price that only Ride1Up can deliver.

ride1up.com

I guess it's time for manufacturers to start making proper electric scooters to replace the 49.5cc gassers. (they have them in Japan already, but not here)

My first gasbike was a 4-stroke Huasheng-49cc kit and most everything in that kit I set aside since it wasn't worth messing with. I have
used it as a utility bike for grocery hauling and it served me real good over the years. That bike is quiet and not a powerhouse but it's
better than walking and even is light enough for pedaling. The Ebikes and EModes are great replacements or for transportation plus
quiet and more maintenance free.

 

[ezl]

A Cushman scooter!! Man are you old, I had one too lol. I was lucky to live through it unscathed.

I had one when the roads were gravel in the country and the gravel would pile up on the shoulders and worse yet, in the middle
of the road. I've put it down because of hitting loose gravel riding into the center of the natural gravel lane divider. Age makes
you wiser and able to anticipate those hazards!

 

[Smaug]

My first gasbike was a 4-stroke Huasheng-49cc kit and most everything in that kit I set aside since it wasn't worth messing with.

↑ This makes it sound like it was a piece of junk.

I have
used it as a utility bike for grocery hauling and it served me real good over the years. That bike is quiet and not a powerhouse but it's
better than walking and even is light enough for pedaling. The Ebikes and EModes are great replacements or for transportation plus
quiet and more maintenance free.

... ↑ But then this makes it sound like you like it.

I do not follow.

 

[ezl]

↑ This makes it sound like it was a piece of junk.


... ↑ But then this makes it sound like you like it.

I do not follow.

Better at the time than pedaling a bicycle for 14 mile to get to the store since the car is broke down. That engine on it is a 4-stroke and no vibration,
is quiet and will exceed 150 mpg. Real cheap to run and the downside to EVs is charging time, lets see a person charge a EV in 1 minute and be
on the way down the road.

 

[Hania]

Are you thinking of getting an eMoped? Why?

Yeah, I am planning to buy one for myself. I use my moped for daily commutes, and I am confident that I would save a lot of money that I spend on fuel by shifting towards electric from gasoline.
You are right that we do not have many options for best electric mopeds in 2023, and I am still searching for a better option in my town.

 

[Smaug]

Yeah, I am planning to buy one for myself. I use my moped for daily commutes, and I am confident that I would save a lot of money that I spend on fuel by shifting towards electric from gasoline.
You are right that we do not have many options for best electric mopeds in 2023, and I am still searching for a better option in my town.

It’s tricky, Hania. (Are you Polish, perchance?)

I assume the moped is already paid for, while an eMoped would have to be bought again. When the battery needs replacing, that’ll be at least $600, which buys a LOT of moped gas.

Is there a registration or insurance cost for the gas moped that an eMoped wouldn’t need?

 

[Hania]

Are you Polish

I am from China (Asia). Yeah, I had yet to learn about the registration of an electric moped.

 

[Smaug]

I have about 160 miles on my eMoped now, and here are my feelings on it now, compared to a more bicycle-like eBike.

• I was a bit worried that I might enjoy riding it enough that I wouldn't want to ride my eBike any more. After the honeymoon of the first couple weeks, I missed my eBike. I checked the battery on it and found it was at 81%; too high for it to sit there all winter like that. So I took it out for about an 11 mile ride to run the battery down. Just like driving a car with a manual transmission is more involving to ride (for better or worse) than an eMoped.
• I try to pedal a bit, but it is really uncomfortable to do so on this bike, especially now that I've upgraded the seat to something flatter and cushier. I think a bicycle-style saddle with suspension seat post is a good idea. I only pedal now to show pedestrians that it is a bicycle when I'm sharing the MUPs with them at low speed.
• The 28-33 mph top speed is a bit awkward. On neighborhood roads where the speed limit is 25, it's fine. In an on-street bike lane, it's fine too. But on a 30 mph street, it's not fast enough, since traffic tends to go 35-40 mph, and it's DEFINITELY not fast enough on a 35 mph street.
• While my eMoped is a long range one, claiming "up to 110 miles" the real-world distance is more like 1/3 that, since it will be at full throttle much of the time. In reality, a eBike has a longer real range, since it is much more pedal-able without battery power; it's just that one would be going 10-13 mph instead of 20. This eMoped is going to be TOUGH to pedal home. Going up hills will require getting off and pushing, unless you have one that's geared very low. The high gearing (so that a fellow can pedal along at 25 mph and not be ghost pedaling) combined with the high weight just make it unrealistic.
• There is almost zero fitness benefit to riding an eMoped, unless you get one that's comfortable to pedal. My eBike lets me burn about half the calories I would be burning on an mBike, which I consider a fair trade for the extra speed and reduced frustration with wind and hills.

I don't regret my purchase, but I'm no longer worried about whether my eBikes will end up being replaced by the eMoped. I think in the hot days of summer, when I want to run an errand without sweating, the eMoped will probably get the nod.

 

[Hania]

I don't regret my purchase, but I'm no longer worried about whether my eBikes will end up being replaced by the eMoped.

Glad you like your purchase, yeah every person has his own preference.

 

["A"]

Glad you like your purchase, yeah every person has his own preference.

Yes, when someone ask me which ebike I should get, the first thing to determine is usage and riding environment.
Here in NYC metro, 25-30 mph on an ebike you would be overtaking cars in traffic on a nimble ebike or e-moped.
With narrow enough handlebar, riding between car mirrors is just part of each ride.

Personally, I have been cycling in NYC petro for the last 10 years on my folding (non-motorized) bike.
An ebike or e-moped have been saving me some travel time and lots of sweat while commuting in NYC,
some times even faster than my riding my motorcycle or driving my car.

 

[pagheca]

For majority of the world, bicycles are used as mode of transportation, respected among motorists on public roadways.

I TOTALLY agree with you "A", except for this statement: only in a minority of places in the world bicycles are respected among motorists on public roadways.

I have been riding bikes all over the world, from Chile to Italy, Australia or California. Not for adventurous trips but mostly for my daily commuting, and let me say that only here, on this little island of the Canary Archipelago and in The Netherlands I felt 100% respected, even more than when I was driving a car (as it should be in my opinion considering the low environmental impact, the small space used, the lack of pollution and noise released to the whole community, etc.). In most of Italy, my country of origin, for example, cyclists are often considered a nuisance. If they use it for errands they are often seen as wealthy people living in expensive apartments in the historic center, closed to "common people" access by car.

Unfortunately, we have to pedal a long way before this is understood by the majority of the world.

 

["A"]

I've been stationed in parts of the world where 2-wheel vehicles outnumber cars & trucks.
Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Taiwan, Philippines & India.
Most of them don't have cycling (or motorcycling) friendly infrastructures, like major European cities.
But cycling is part of everyday life, the people in Asia get by with the cheapest, rusty, abused 2-wheels vehicles that are often overloaded with no safety concerns.
Part of reason that I'm more inclined towards cheap ebikes, the utility of 2-wheel vehicles over performance.
Of course the population density in Asia is higher than most other parts of the world.
Sometimes, cars & trucks are just much more difficult to operate in poorly maintained roads or paths, but 2-wheel vehicles are rarely stranded.

Here in most parts of the US, infrastructures hove been designed for cars & trucks, combined with the lower cost of gasoline.
The consumption of gasoline is something that's been built into everyday life among most US residents.
Bicycles & motorcycles are mostly considered as toys by most drivers, as if they don't belong on public roads.
To change that kind of mentality and reduce the consumption of gasoline in our lives, would require much more than just ebikes becoming popular.

 

[pagheca]

my experience is pretty different. I have been working recently in two different cities in Vietnam: Hanoi and Nha Trang, and been traveling all over East Asia for work. There, it is simply that bicycles and scooters are the majority of traffic and use most of each lane, but I haven't seen any real infrastructure for cycling. I am afraid that as cars will increase things will change if they don't do something soon about that.

However, I have to say that was a wonderful experience. I miss so much those people...

In the US, frankly speaking, the situation looks pretty bad almost everywhere, that's true...

 

[Smaug]

(east Asia)

However, I have to say that was a wonderful experience. I miss so much those people...

Yes, generally the people are hard-working and good. The only issue I found was that, due to the huge population density, people have to compete for things and that leads to some back-stabbing and dishonesty at times.

In the US, frankly speaking, the situation looks pretty bad almost everywhere, that's true...

Well, it varies wildly. Some cities are really leading the way. I've heard Colorado Springs is great. Madison, WI is great. Chicago is coming along. San Francisco I hear is pretty good. Suburbs are almost universally bad; cars rule there and bike paths are just for exercise and don't connect where they need to connect. Out in the country, there are often no paved shoulders and traffic moves at 65+ mph. However, the drivers tend to be more considerate. (when sober)
We have a long way to go to catch up with the infrastructure in some European cities or the kindness of your little island.

[...]
Here in most parts of the US, infrastructures hove been designed for cars & trucks, combined with the lower cost of gasoline.
The consumption of gasoline is something that's been built into everyday life among most US residents.
Bicycles & motorcycles are mostly considered as toys by most drivers, as if they don't belong on public roads.
To change that kind of mentality and reduce the consumption of gasoline in our lives, would require much more than just ebikes becoming popular.

↑ This is our biggest issue. In general, we feel entitled and so many people are willfully ignorant; they don't even care when they find out their assumption that they own the road is legally wrong. (but practically speaking, they are right) Making this paradigm shift happen... I think it just takes more traffic jams! As you see in NYC, when traffic gets so bad that people sitting in their cars see a bicyclists riding by unencumbered, they will start to get the idea.

Do you know what just blows my mind? The fact that a central Canadian city of (Edmonton) is investing many millions of dollars in bicycle infrastructure because they know it will pay off, but US cities with warmer average climates are not doing it:


There was a similar video I saw earlier about a Scandinavian city doing it, and even going further: they provide plowing service for the trails on a regular basis! I can't remember which city or even country that was, but I think it was featured on Shifter's YouTube channel as well.

 

[pagheca]

Yes, generally the people are hard-working and good. The only issue I found was that, due to the huge population density, people have to compete for things and that leads to some back-stabbing and dishonesty at times.

Well, I have a very limited experience.

Well, it varies wildly.

You are right: I should have written "In the places of the US I have been", i.e. mainly San Diego, Delaware and Philadelphia plus a road trip from Philly to Canada.

Some cities are really leading the way. I've heard Colorado Springs is great. Madison, WI is great. Chicago is coming along. San Francisco I hear is pretty good. Suburbs are almost universally bad; cars rule there and bike paths are just for exercise and don't connect where they need to connect. Out in the country, there are often no paved shoulders and traffic moves at 65+ mph. However, the drivers tend to be more considerate. (when sober)
We have a long way to go to catch up with the infrastructure in some European cities or the kindness of your little island.

I refer to the experience of this guy, a Canadian from Toronto fascinated by The Netherland (but quite unbiased AFAIU): https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes - try a few videos, they are quite interesting...

↑ This is our biggest issue. In general, we feel entitled and so many people are willfully ignorant; they don't even care when they find out their assumption that they own the road is legally wrong. (but practically speaking, they are right) Making this paradigm shift happen... I think it just takes more traffic jams! As you see in NYC, when traffic gets so bad that people sitting in their cars see a bicyclists riding by unencumbered, they will start to get the idea.

What really amazes me here is that people never pass you when there is not enough space and never pass close to you less than 1.5-2 m. It's quite embarrassing sometimes : they form a queue behind you (as I told you, roads here are extremely windy, narrow and steep, so I'm pretty slow and is not easy to find straights longer than a few meters), but they never ever do anything that could harm you, to the point sometimes I prefer to stop and let them go, as I got anxsious for them!

 

[biknut]

Well, it varies wildly. Some cities are really leading the way. I've heard Colorado Springs is great. Madison, WI is great. Chicago is coming along. San Francisco I hear is pretty good. Suburbs are almost universally bad; cars rule there and bike paths are just for exercise and don't connect where they need to connect. Out in the country, there are often no paved shoulders and traffic moves at 65+ mph. However, the drivers tend to be more considerate. (when sober)
We have a long way to go to catch up with the infrastructure in some European cities or the kindness of your little island.

You just exactly described all the trails in Farmers Branch, and Carrollton Texas. Dallas is a little better as far as connections go, but still has a long way to go. Another problem we have is drivers here think it's their duty to run you over to teach you a lesson if you're going too slow holding up traffic.

 

[biknut]

This is an exciting looking new bike from Himiway. To bad it's so slow.

 

[FrankR]

I have an interest in these bikes. Unlikely I will take the plunge, but, I have been following along.

One thing I find odd about Many of these - the manufacturer just mounts the battery somewhere - Exposed. I don't get it. Why not have Some sort of compartment. It looks bad, and, it can't be good for longevity - and sitting out in the sun.

 

[biknut]

it seems like 8 of 10 new bikes coming out now are Moped style.