eMoped Thread

[Smaug]

In the absence of a subforum to discuss this fast-growing segment, I'm creating this thread.

I find eMopeds fascinating. There aren't as many of them out yet as what we traditionally think of as an eBike, but they seem to be growing fast.

Here are some discussion points:

• The have the ABILITY to be pedaled, but that will not be their primary use (much like traditional mopeds)
• They have the speed to replace a traditional moped. Traditional mopeds in my area were limited to 25 mph. I'm thinking of two versions of fuel powered mopeds: 1) Traditional moped. They had pedals, a small two-stroke engine and were speed limited to 25 mph.
  2) the Honda Metropolitan. This is more of a a castrated 49.5cc scooter. It was limited to 25 mph. (the regular 49.5 cc version would go 38 mph)
• They don't yet have the range to replace a traditional moped. Even with a lot of expensive batteries to get range up to the 100 mile mark, it would then take many hours to recharge them, as opposed to a 5 minute fill-up.
• How about cost: moped vs. eMoped?
• How about legal questions of eMoped vs. moped in your area?
  - In WI, Class 3 requires the rider to be 16+
  - In WI, Class 1 & 2 cannot be registered or taxed (it's silent on Class 3 or above) They are treated exactly like a purely mechanical bicycle.
  - In WI, Class 3 can be assisted up to 28 mph
  - In WI, anything above a 750 W motor or motorized/assisted past 28 mph is no longer defined as an eBike
• How about enforcement?
• Are you thinking of getting an eMoped? Why? Why not? If not, would you EVER be open to one or are you digging your heels in?
• Price issues, comparisons to other motorized vehicles, etc.

 

[Smaug]

For my part, I'm on the fence.

I have a Class 3 eBike now. (Aventon Level.2) It looks enough like a mechanical bike and when there's no one else on the bike paths, I occasionally will let it rip up to 28 mph.

I'm thinking about an eMoped (would literally be classified as a moped or motorcycle if unlocked) It's particularly tempted because the highest speed limit toward the center of my city is 30 mph. 28 is doable. 35 would allow me to not slow traffic down.

The one I'm leaning toward now is the Revv 1 by Ride1up:

Revv 1 Moped-Style Electric Bike | Ride1Up Ebikes

Moped-style electric bike with multi-class speeds and all-terrain capabilities. Rugged moped performance at a value price that only Ride1Up can deliver.

ride1up.com

I guess it's time for manufacturers to start making proper electric scooters to replace the 49.5cc gassers. (they have them in Japan already, but not here)

 

["A"]

Regardless of legality or classifications, folks are always going to modify their machines to perform beyond the OEM parameters.
Reality is: manufacturers have no control how folks modify or operate their vehicle once it's in consumer hands.
Manufacturers have done their due diligence when the bikes leave the factory with their OEM equipment & performance parameters.

I have been a motorcyclist for over 25 years, a cyclist for over 40 years; I've had my fair share of encounters with LEO's & close calls with speed.
Does it make me a safer rider than most? at times, yes. Do I follow the law 100%? probably not.
I ride enough to know how to stay within the safe speed in different situations.

I bought two e-mopeds from AliExpress this past winter similar to the Revv 1, both 48V, 750w motor, with dual battery, combined 44 Ah capacity.
I chose the models with cast alloy wheels because I don't feel like worrying about spoke tension & replacing spokes.
The minimal rear suspension doesn't offer a whole lot of travel, I upgraded them to a longer travel unit with spring & oil damping and adjusted teh front fork to compensate the ride height.

I rarely need top speed above 25 mph, 90% of my riding is speed below 20 mph.
I pedal the e-moped about 80% of my riding, even if it's just enough motion to engage the PAS.

There are other models that offer dual motors with dual batteries, that still cost under $2k

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804815087215.html

Even models with dual motors & triple batteries (total 66 Ah) $2400 with free shipping.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805083139710.html

BUT, if you order them now, likely you won't receive them until JUL or AUG.

 

[Smaug]

Thanks for creating the new forum, Anton!

*****************

"A" - I looked at some of those ebikes on alibaba last night. Cosmetically, they're not as pleasing to me as the ones we typically see in the domestic market, but I like the availability of models with 2 or 3 battery packs. That, in my opinion, makes these into proper mopeds.

Except for being a little ugly, that second one you posted looks about perfect. How are the brakes? Not too squeaky I hope?

I guess what makes it look ugly to me is the typical bike-shaped seat. On the other hand, it is also height-adjustable, unlike a bench seat I'd prefer on a moped.

Also, those battery packs are pretty much modular now, right?

 

["A"]

For some reason, the manufacturer for these e-mopeds do not cut the steertube of their triple clamp suspension fork on any of these bikes at the factory. Hence the front end of these e-mopeds look a bit odd when compared to others.
The steertube on these forks are easy to cut with the right tools, pipe cutter is what I usually use, I have yet to cut mine because the look doesn't really bother me; once I'm riding the bike I don't really get to see what it looks like.
The long steertube does allow room to adjust the head angle and steering, especially with the short travel of the rear shock.
To switch out the rear shock to something longer travel will make the rear suspension much more effective.
To compensate for the longer travel rear suspension, the front fork legs need to be moved down in the triple clamp, lots of lengthy steertube spacers come with the bike from the factory to allow those adjustments.

For the seat, I prefer regular bicycle seat adjustment that allow better pedaling action when seat is adjusted to the proper height for pedaling leg extension. Bench or cafe seat may look cool, but doesn't offer the full leg extension for pedaling efficiency.

Battery packs for both e-mopeds are the same, each battery is 22Ah, heavy units; really need rock solid mounting brackets to secure them onto the e-moped. I had to modify one of the mounting brackets on the bike to secure th battery because the mounting screws from factory was not far apart enough. Road shock gets amplified and the heavy battery pack start to rattle, which will lead to the mounting bracket breaking faster than need be.
I haven't taken more recent pictures, but below was still work in progress back in JAN.

 

["A"]

If you're interested in e-moped news & developments:

 

["A"]

Here is an article with similar spec'd e-moped:
Eunorau Flash launched as 220-mile triple battery e-bike, and it’s as ridiculous as it looks

Eunorau Flash launched as 220-mile triple battery e-bike, and it's as ridiculous as it looks

Ridiculous, but in an epic way! If you thought one single battery was passé and two batteries weren’t enough, then...

electrek.co

Dual motor, cast wheels model below:

 

[Smaug]

I think we are on the cusp of a crack-down on eMopeds. As I have read, California is letting almost anything go, but they are now getting cheap and capable enough that law enforcement will need to crack down. For example, I see vlogs (such as one linked above) where the guy was riding his eMoped on bike trails, blows stop signs, doesn't seem to even slow down for yield signs, rides in the lane at (apparently) 30 mph and I presume he's not licensed.

These guys are going to start hitting pedestrians on the bike paths who are in Phone Zombie Mode with their AirPods installed and swerving all over the place. When the case is written up, the cop will note that the rider was riding illegally on the path, etc.

 

["A"]

It wouldn't surprise me if ebike, e-moped operators may be those who has already lost their driver's license;
therefore less likely to obey traffic laws.

I usually leave a comment on YT, when vloger break traffic laws in their video;
almost as if they don't realize they are incriminating themselves to the world with video evidence provided and could be prosecuted as such.

US could be heading towards insurance/registration requirement for e-mopeds like UK.

 

[HumanPerson]

Riding around this spring, i've seen alot more older people in my town riding slowly and laughing and just enjoying it.
Then i've seen some youngsters ripping through the golf course and jumping things so i feel you're
right about that @"A"

 

[Smaug]

The laws are already on the books where I live, (WI) but I think these current crop of "eMopeds" are in a gray area or even allowed in some states/areas and can get by.

Going faster than 28 mph or having more than a 750 W motor is illegal on the street in Wisconsin, so anything that exceeds either of those is for offroad use only.

It's only a question of enforcement. I have to believe that some dude going 38 mph "taking his lane" in traffic without a license is quickly going to get pinched, at least in Wisconsin.

 

["A"]

Electric Bike Company unveils low-cost US-built 28 mph moto-style e-bike
MSRP of $1,499, but is now available for pre-order at just $1,199 with a five- to six-week wait for delivery

Electric Bike Company unveils low-cost US-built 28 mph moto-style e-bike

Newport Beach, California-based Electric Bike Company has just launched its newest e-bike, the Model J. Not only does it come...

electrek.co

 

[Smaug]

That's pretty cool. The bikes are pretty basic mechanically, but have a ton of aesthetic options.
I love that they're assembled in the USA and that the motors have a 10 year warranty.

Micah's version up there seems to indicate it can be bought with up to 3 batteries and probably have an electric-only range of 60 miles at full speed.

I would like to see them get on board with rear suspension, belt drive and fenders, but I guess that would make them a bit less cute.

I designed one and it came to $2300 even with the standard battery. The Ride1up Revv1 seems to be the best value so far, (putting aside the alibaba options) except it hasn't got any luggage options, which is a kick in the nuts.

 

[ETrike]

I was over $2700 with the best battery and the more obvious wants without getting ridiculous. The lack of a rear suspension pretty much spoiled the rest of the party.

 

["A"]

A new dual 1000w motor, dual battery offer on AliEx.
52V system, more powerful for sure:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805254211504.html

Dual motor, Triple battery option, with USD forks, too:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805277669447.html

 

[Smaug]

Since I'm not ready to buy mine yet, I have this wish list that I'm gonna try and hold out for:

• Single motor; I don't plan to do any offroading
• Reputable company where I have some chance of getting customer service (NOT aliexpress or heybike or random Chinese seller)
• Decent tires with street pattern, or at least a knobby that has a lot of surface area
• Full suspension or
• Cast wheels
• Rear luggage rack
• Fenders with decent coverage

So far, the closest one is the Revv1 from Ride1up. It has everything except the luggage rack. The $100 optional center compartment is cool, but no replacement for a proper luggage rack that can hold a milk crate.

 

["A"]

With my purchase experience with AliEx & Alibaba in the last 6 years, nearly a dozen ebikes purchases;
I've learn that you can customize specs with your ebike purchases.

Communication & negotiation often take a few days/weeks to finalize,
but if you want to have the ebike spec'd out exactly the way you want, it's worth the hassle.

I had the manufacturer change out the tires from knobby tread to full on street tread for free.

I had the manufacturer include extra luggage rack or metal basket with the ebike purchase with small additional cost.

Having dealt with large dealerships & manufacturers in the bike industry in my youth (10-20 years ago),
the manufacturers in China isn't particularly more difficult to deal with.
Maybe the language barrier is a concern, but nowadays Google translate does a pretty good job.
If there is something specific you want that you can provide a picture of the tire or component, the Chinese manufacturer can usually comply with the demand pretty easily.
To me, these guys want the business just as bad reputable brands and are more likely to offer changes with their bikes prior to purchase & shipping.

 

[biknut]

I like the moped style eBikes best. I think that's the future of eBikes. I have no desire to pedal around on a heavy ass bike, but if pedals facilitate riding the loophole I don't mind having them. The only thing is, it needs to be able to go at least 40 mph to ride safely on the street. My biggest gripe about eBikes in general is most of them are to slow to ride in traffic, which basically relegates them to being expensive toys if you live in a big city.

 

[Smaug]

"Ride the loophole" That is an epic term you've just coined, biknut.

Only one thing, though: Mopeds are defined in a lot of places as being speed limited to 25 mph. Or 28 mph. Limited to 750 W motor. Etc. At that point, it's not a loophole any more, but just praying that the local cops will not notice.

 

["A"]

If you feel that 40 mph speed is the way to stay safe on public roads, then it's likely that you've bullied your whole life by drivers to believe that.
I've been cycling among traffic since the late 80's, including a 10-week, coast-to-coast self-support ride from Seattle to Ocean City, MD as a teen.
As a bicycle messenger in my late teens in SF, Seattle & NYC.
I've had my share of close calls with motorists, but always know my rights as a public road user.

For majority of the world, bicycles are used as mode of transportation, respected among motorists on public roadways.
In the US, bicycles & motorcycles are considered toys, don't belong on the road as cars & truck.

Car culture in the USA have developed (mindset &) infrastructure suited for cars & trucks, everything else that can't keep up with motor vehicle speed is considered "unsafe".

It is only "unsafe" when entitled motorists decide to disrespect others on the road.
When you're on public roads, anyone has the right to be there just as much as the cars & trucks.

To change the mindset that only car & trucks belong on public roads takes all kinds.