Sunday's bicycle insurance

[ZachParker]

any advice on this company?
was thinking of insuring my ebike. paid 1k for it and i can get full coverage for only 8 bucks thru sunday. 14 thru velo.

 

[HumanPerson]

Heya @ZachParker Welcome to the forums

Oh i've never heard of that one

Bike and E-Bike Insurance | Ride worry-free with Sundays

Comprehensive coverage designed by cyclists for cyclists. Protect your bicycle or e-bike against theft, accidental damage, and more.

sundaysinsurance.com

Trustpilot has some good reviews about them.

Sundays Insurance is rated "Excellent" with 4.4 / 5 on Trustpilot

Do you agree with Sundays Insurance's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today and hear what 132 customers have already said.

www.trustpilot.com

 

[m@Robertson]

Being a licensed insurance agent, the first thing I did was go to the sample policy and read it. I have done the same thing with my Velosurance policy, which is actually written on Markel Insurance Co. paper (Velosurance is an insurance agent of Markel and resells their product). Almost all bicycle insurance policies in the USA are actually Markel policies and sold by different agents.

I have to say I am not crazy about what I am seeing in the Sundays policy. For instance under eligibility at the top of Page 5 it starts off with

"We only provide coverage for bicycles that are used for recreational purposes." and there is a period at the end of that sentence. The remainder of the paragraph addresses how they do not insure professional or sponsored cyclists, but it leaves unanswered the question of what if you are riding your bike for something other than recreation? I rode 24 miles to and back from Best Buy yesterday. I parked the bike outside when I went into the store. Was that recreational use? My running of an errand and using the bike as a car replacement? What about the fact its a cargo bike and expressly designed for utility use?

Exclusions on the next page doesn't impress me either. I see stuff like "repairs not approved by us". And in order to get like-new replacement parts, you have to buy the special coverage that allows that, and to be eligible for that you have to purchase the policy within 60 days of buying the bike. These two things together make me think that depreciation on value is going to be used here.

Exclusion 24.a. is a morals clause that excludes coverage during any form of willful misconduct or illegal act. How far do they want to push that? They already expressly exclude coverage after any alcohol use. What about speeding? Speeding is breaking the law. Going 26 in a 25 zone is breaking the law. Clauses like these can be weaponized by an aggressive claims department.

Read Exclusion 24.b. If you leave a door unlocked by mistake, or the thief does a tidy job in the break-in, no coverage. And 24.e... thats a whole can of worms right there. 24.g. opens the door to just about anything in terms of modification leading to a coverage denial. You changed the tires and then crashed? Thats a modification and triggers the exclusion regardless of whether that item caused the crash (the concept of materiality is not addressed and thus not expressly applicable).

Exclusion 24.j. pretty much opens the door to denying a claim on any low cost direct-to-consumer bike. Think about whats going on with the Rad Runner and the big lawsuit against Rad right now.

Read the Appraisal section on Page 12. This sounds like an Actual Cash Value policy (yes Page 12's valuation section confirms this) which guarantees depreciation. And read the last sentence: "If there is an appraisal, we will retain our right to deny the claim." So if the umpire process they describe goes against them they are saying they are reserving the right to walk away.

I'll stick with my Velosurance/Markel policy. Much simpler language and far fewer convolutions. Done on a Stated Value basis and even though Stated Value contains an escape hatch, my conversations with them in advance of policy issuance convinced me they are treating it as an Agreed Value.

 

[nightrider]

I would recommend Velosurance. I had a theft claim paid with them and they have been around the block for 10+ years
They also dont depreciate your bike with age which is the case with Sundays (they are a Actual Cash Value policy which will make your bike way cheaper to payout in a couple years)

 

[JerryB]

My insurance agent told me that I'm most likely to be involved in an ebike accident when I'm within a mile of my home.​

So I've decided to move to a safer neighborhood.

 

[Nedsche]

I've got a Sundays policy and some friends have claimed, they've all had very positive experiences so I recommend Sundays

 

[nightrider]

Do you know that Sundays have a bike lock list that they link to veeeeeeeery low in the quote process. This means that if your lock is NOT on that list and your bike gets stolen - you will not be paid. THis is a very deceptive practice.

They also fail to mention that they are a cash value policy which means they depreciate your bike with age you are NOT getting a full value if its stolen EVEN if you have an approved lock.

Their coverage for damage in transit is horrible. They state on their site "If your bicycle is being transported as part of your check-in luggage and it is not securely packed in a fully enclosed bicycle travel case or box." - you will get no coverage. This is pretty bad.

Stay away from them and do NOT recommend them to anybody! Its a subpar product.

 

[Nedsche]

That's interesting... we knew about the lock because that's common across all bike insurers. But I guess not everyone knows about that. On the value policy, they offer new for old for life so no depreciation. Just checked our documents. We looked at other providers like Velosurance and Oyster but they didn't cover as much and they were way more expensive. Our friends in LA also recently claimed and they had a good experience so we're happy with Sundays for now

 

[m@Robertson]

I respect @Nedsche 's being happy with the policy, and the experience of friends, but the insurance contract Sundays uses to specify what they will cover and what they will pay is terrible. I'm saying that as a professional in the insurance business, and after reading their policy and comparing it to their main competitor. See Post #3 above and note what I wrote there is just a synopsis. i.e. there's more if you dig down and read thru all of it.

 

[m@Robertson]

That's interesting... we knew about the lock because that's common across all bike insurers.

Not an approved list its not. the Markel policies just state the bike has to be securely locked to a fixed object. There is no approved lock list.

On the value policy, they offer new for old for life so no depreciation. Just checked our documents.

They only offer 'new for old' under certain specific circumstances. Otherwise they depreciate and they list the depreciation calculation in their FAQ.

We looked at other providers like Velosurance and Oyster but they didn't cover as much and they were way more expensive.

I can't speak to price, but 'didn't cover as much' - I can't see how reading the insurance contract (i.e. the policy) for both parties could possibly lead to that conclusion. Especially given all of the coverage exclusions Sundays has that Markel does not. If all you do is look at what Sundays refuses to cover, you are deep into negative territory versus their competition.

https://cdn.sundaysinsurance.com/us/docs/Sample_PolicyForm.pdf

https://velosurance.com/vss3/specimen_policy.pdf

Worth noting: The Sundays policy is 83 pages long. The Markel policy is 10. The Sundays coverage exclusions begin on Page 5 and contain 25 separate items, not counting all the sub-items which take the exclusion list out to Page 8. The Markel exclusions have 4 items starting on the bottom of Page 4, and physical damage exclusions on Page 5.

 

[nightrider]

That's interesting... we knew about the lock because that's common across all bike insurers.

They are literally the only insurer I know of who does this.

-We looked at other providers like Velosurance and Oyster but they didn't cover as much and they were way more expensive.

What would be an example of the coverage that Sundays provide that Oyster+Velosurance dont? I really am curious.
Both Velosurance and Oyster resell Markel and their policy has better coverage. For instance, their policy will cover your bike in transit even if you forget"pack the bike a fully enclosed bicycle travel case". Sundays will deny your claim.

Both Oyster and Velosurance will pay no matter which bike lock you had. Sundays will deny if its not in their list.

This does not really sound like Sundays has more coverage.

And going back to the topic of actual cash value/ replacement value.
If you have a used bike (which most people do) - Sundays is pretty clear on their site that you are not getting replacement value for them no matter how hard you try. Or for the new bikes if you do not pay extra for "lifetime new for old"

From their site:
If you bought your bicycle new, did not select lifetime new for old and it is more than two years old or it was purchased second-hand or used, we
will pay you the lesser of:

• The actual cash value
• Its market value (applies only to secondhand bicycles)
• Your sum insured, less any applicable deductible

 

[jlhog1]

I just bought a new bike and asked my agent how much to cover a $1500 bike. His quote was $175 a year. Does that sound right? Seems high to me.

 

[m@Robertson]

Yes, but not by much. Just for laughs I ran a Markel quote on a $1500 bike and it came out to $113.

 

[m@Robertson]

Wow this topic is happening across multiple fora. Someone just commented in another forum on the same topic, which started and petered out a few months ago. Seeing it pop up in my feed, I also saw where someone else had caught that Sundays Insurance is secondary coverage.

See Page 10, bullet point 4, and Page 12 "Other Insurance" section.

What that means is they do not pay out until you have gone and filed a claim with your Homeowners/Renters policy. Then after that you can file a claim with them for anything the HO policy wouldn't pay out. I had totally forgotten that gotcha was hiding in there.

Also the Page 10 section has some additional sucky stuff nobody should miss: The second bullet point says

"We reserve the right in all instances to have repairs undertaken at a repairer of our final choice."

and

"If you underinsured your bicycle and make a claim, your claim settlement may be reduced by us to
reflect this. You are considered to be underinsured if the sum insured at the time of the loss is less than
80% of the replacement cost of the bicycle. We determine the insured percentage by dividing the sum
insured by the replacement cost at the time of the claim. Your final settlement will be based on your
insured percentage."

So... they depreciate the bike when it comes to paying the claim, but they value the bike using new replacement cost as a basis - not the depreciated value - to determine if they can reduce your settlement amount. The depreciation procedure is listed on Page 11 of the policy.

 

[Senior_Cruiser]

My insurance agent told me that I'm most likely to be involved in an ebike accident when I'm within a mile of my home.​

So I've decided to move to a safer neighborhood.

Park your bike 1 mile away from your home.

 

[pagheca]

I am not so worried about someone stealing my ebike as this place is very safe (and being trained elsewhere I never ever leave it unattended and unlocked. I also remove the kiox display every time I leave it for a second), but I am concerned about possible damage to third parties because of an accident.

Any suggestion about a good insurance?

 

[m@Robertson]

Any suggestion about a good insurance?

scroll up ;-)

I only insure for physical damage and my expectation is the risk is primarily theft. I lock my bike up outside of shops all the time.

 

[sulsj]

I am experiencing my 1st claim with Sundays and would like to share it.
I have a chainstay cracked and would like to repair it with the coverage.
It was very smooth up until I opened a claim on Dec 13th and the customer service quickly communicated with me on the details.
And they told me the Tokio Marine will contact me directly. They said it needs to process a underwrite from Tokio Marine.
I have been waiting for it for more than 10 days now. Sundays Insurance keeps saying they have no way to check the status or progress.

Maybe because it's the end of the year season? I am not quite satisfied now and looking into Velosurance.

Any experience a repair coverage from Sundays?

Thank you!
J

 

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[sulsj]

It turns out the delay was b/c of a seasonal reason. I received an email right after the Holidays and my repair claim was approved. I collected a few quotes from the local repair shops and requested with highest cost and it's approved. Good.