Real range vs. declared range?

[pagheca]

I would be curious to know how long is your longest ride on your bicycle ON THE SAME BATTERY CHARGE.

With my 625 Wh battery, it has been no more than 60 km (37 miles) vs. the 120 declared. But I have to say that roads are always VERY sloping here, which means higher consumption and mode set to Tour rather than ECO at least some, if not most, of the time. Moreover, I tend not to go below 20%, which means that the real range should be around 75 km in these conditions.

So, the comparison is unfair here.

 

["A"]

Battery range can depend on rider weight, cargo weight, ambient temperature, speed of travel, wind resistance, etc..
I usually go by 2/3 of expected range from manufacturer.

 

[addertooth]

Battery range can depend on rider weight, cargo weight, ambient temperature, speed of travel, wind resistance, etc..
I usually go by 2/3 of expected range from manufacturer.

And dare I add, tire pressure. My milage improved after I went from knobbies at 15 PSI pressure, to street tread at 30 PSI.

 

[addertooth]

And dare I add, tire pressure. My milage improved after I went from knobbies at 15 PSI pressure, to street tread at 30 PSI.

The "roaring sound" made by knobbies requires energy. That energy comes from your battery.

 

[pagheca]

sure. I am aware of all those additional factors. I was just wondering what the actual range is under typical ebike and emtb use cases, since there is not even a standard similar to that (very optimistic) used for electric cars to be declared, AFAIK.

 

[DieselTech]

If I stay in pas2 I get over 100miles on a charge. If I go to offroad mode i get like 55-65miles.
I always leave 2 battery bars of power remaining on the batteries as well.

Stated mileage is 68miles & 105 miles from the manufacturer.

 

[addertooth]

sure. I am aware of all those additional factors. I was just wondering what the actual range is under typical ebike and emtb use cases, since there is not even a standard similar to that (very optimistic) used for electric cars to be declared, AFAIK.

There is apparently no actual standard. And results from vendor to vendor only "generally equate to a 30 to 50% over-optimistic evaluation of range".

I have also noted that if your route involves a lot of stop and go driving, range is reduced as well. Accelerating back up to your cruising speed gulps power significantly.

 

[addertooth]

But, to answer the original question from Pagheca:
I can go about 30 miles of commute riding (which requires some stop and go) on a single charge.

Conditions:
Bike, Zeeger S1, dual 1KW motors, with one switched off.
Cruise Speed, 21.1 MPH. PAS mode 3. Peddling, but only with modest effort (I can't arrive at work sweaty).
Battery, 48v Rated at 22.4 Ah by the manufacturer, 20 Ah actual.
Surface: Asphalt, mostly level with some brief inclines.
Weight of rider plus all gear hauled (Compressor, Tools, Patch Kit, dual heavy duty locks and long cables, medical kit, etc) 230 pounds.

Vendor claims for my bike:

"

• 【Big Capacity Lithium Battery Ebike】Large capacity 48V 22Ah battery offers ebikes long riding range of 40-60 miles,the waterproof battery of ebike is not only large capacity and long lasting, but it's also removable, convenient to take home or office for charging.Upgraded 54.6V 3A charger completes charging quickly in 5-8 hours"

 

[KB's_ebikes]

https://reallygoodebikes.com/pages/electric-bike-ebike-range-calculator

I heard from others and can confirm myself with data from three ebikes/batteries that it is pretty accurate.

 

[addertooth]

https://reallygoodebikes.com/pages/electric-bike-ebike-range-calculator

I heard from others and can confirm myself with data from three ebikes/batteries that it is pretty accurate.

I just used the calculator, and it came up with about 31.26 miles of range, which is in the ballpark of my observed range.

 

[DieselTech]

I just used the calculator, and it came up with about 31.26 miles of range, which is in the ballpark of my observed range.

The battery size wasnt ample enough for me. But if I double the largest battery capacity on the calculator. I should be getting 85.5 miles with my dual hub bike.

 

[KB's_ebikes]

The "roaring sound" made by knobbies requires energy. That energy comes from your battery.

This is why today I am going to change my knobby tires with 26x1.75" hybrid tires. Together with installing a 11-28T freewheel I am hoping that range and speed will increase. I have a feeling that most people actually don't really need knobby MTB tires.

 

[addertooth]

The battery size wasnt ample enough for me. But if I double the largest battery capacity on the calculator. I should be getting 85.5 miles with my dual hub bike.

Yep, the inventory to make the bike dual battery upgrade is on hand. I have to do some welding and fabrication to modify the rear rack to hold the second battery.

This may become moot, should I get the dual battery Motor Goat v3 (which is under heavy consideration at the time).

 

[addertooth]

This is why today I am going to change my knobby tires with 26x1.75" hybrid tires. Together with installing a 11-28T freewheel I am hoping that range and speed will increase. I have a feeling that most people actually don't really need knobby MTB tires.

Yes, if you switch between Knobby tires and smooth street tires in the calculator, the milage difference jumps significantly. It is much cheaper than achieving the same range with a larger battery.

 

[Smaug]

The "roaring sound" made by knobbies requires energy. That energy comes from your battery.

It's from additional air resistance and rolling resistance more than sound. Think of the lugs as fan blades.

 

[DieselTech]

Yep, the inventory to make the bike dual battery upgrade is on hand. I have to do some welding and fabrication to modify the rear rack to hold the second battery.

This may become moot, should I get the dual battery Motor Goat v3 (which is under heavy consideration at the time).

That's a nice bike! How much will the dual battery version cost? The frame looks almost identical to my Freego F3 Pro Max.

 

[addertooth]

That's a nice bike! How much will the dual battery version cost? The frame looks almost identical to my Freego F3 Pro Max.

As I recall, the battery was purchased at a reduced bargain price of 400 (it is an actual 22.4 Ah battery), and the Polar Bear battery blender with XT60 cables was about 150. I picked up some scrap 16 gauge sheet metal which will be fabricated into a platform to mount above the rear rack. The reason for this step is to maintain the existing saddlebags which are already on the rack and see daily use. To create this second level will requires some machining and welding. A machining and welding shop is in the garage.

 

[Smaug]

My riding style is to use minimal assist; still trying to get exercise, but not arrive sweaty. With that in mind:

Aventon Level.2: I get about 50 miles. This is inline with the mfr. spec. of "up to 60 miles" 60 miles would be PAS1 and going pretty slow. (Torque sensor.) I prefer PAS1 and 15-20 mph.

Lectric XP Lite: I haven't measured, but I feel like their estimate is accurate. I like to ride on PAS 3, which is ~ 15 mph. (24 kph) That speed lets me pedal at a comfortable cadence for the single gear ratio while still doing most of the work. PAS4 is ~ 17 mph, where I can still pedal comfortably, but the current goes from 1-2 A to 5-6 A. Lectric does the best job with real-world range estimates, IMO. They can still legitimately claim up to a 40 mile range, but when we read the specs, we get the full picture.

HyperScrambler 2: I ride this one at full assist and 25-33 mph most of the time; haven't been able to measure the range when it's warm out yet, but when I did it when it was cold, it was around 30 miles, IIRC. Juiced claims "100+ mile range", but this would be going very slowly in ECO mode and pedaling HARD. No one's going to do it, except when the battery is almost dead and they're riding home instead of pushing. (as I've done once; over-estimated the remaining range due to cold)

Electra Townie GO! 7D: Haven't measured this, but their 40 mile estimate feels accurate. One time, my wife went on a 22 mile ride with me with half a charge and was not even down to one battery bar when we got home.

My city is mostly flat.

 

[pagheca]

Actually, you know what? I have to admit I didn't know till a few minutes ago what "PAS" meant... I read several times in this forum but never care to understand: Pedal Assisted System. My shame!!!

However... Until today PAS was my very personal memory trick to remember the recipe for a perfect Spritz: 3...2...1...PAS! Aka: 3 parts Prosecco (dry, possibly Valdobbiadene Superiore DOCG), 2 parts Aperol, 1 part Soda. Possibly a slice of fresh orange and... enjoy!

 

[CrossRoads]

By far the biggest factor here is going to be speed. Regardless of rider profie, tire choice, rider weight, the air resistance is the dominan source of energy loss after 20 mph and a higher percentage thereafter. Air resistance scales as velocity squared, so it takes over twice as much power to go 30 mph as it does to go 20 mph.