Best source for geared hub motors.

On the turn count thing, I do not know either.

Mac had 8T, 10T, and 12T, with the LOWER number meaning higher speed. T for Torque???

However, one of the big iron makers, QS I think, had 3T, 4T, and 5T, with the HIGHER number meaning higher speed. T for Turns????

Most companies list them as hi-speed and low-speed, also if you order for a very small wheel, you will get a high-speed motor, usually, and the reverse if you order for a very large wheel. Again, usually. China.
 
Compatibility over time can be a real pit in terms of time and money. I think its likely you are using a Bafang motor. As such, its also likely you can just drop another motor core in from another one of the same size. If you have a hub motor failure, you don't want to also go to the expense of stringing a new motor into a new wheel, so you want a drop-in.

Which means you can forget about upgrading to a G062 from what appears to be a G060 (the previous gen of the same motor, with different side cable exit side and probably different bolt holes for mounting the core into the casing).

Because of this - and also because one of my G060 hub motors was acting up for no apparent reason soon after installation, on a bike I was depending on as a commuter - I bought a new motor and socked it away as a spare. Its still on the shelf like 5 years later. I've also got a spare BBSHD for the same reason. Thats quite an investment, but lemme tell ya... it sure is nice when you have a parts failure and you can just pull something off the shelf and you are back in business in an afternoon. I've reaped this benefit with spare motor parts I have socked away (a spare BBSHD spindle/axle comes to mind), and I standardized on the BBSHD across all my bikes so one set of spares works for the whole fleet. Same goes for Magura brakes (and brake rotors and spare pads).

Simplifying the spares situation on a bike you use for reliable daily transportation (I have a car; I just try not to use it) is something you need to take on with a view to the entire system. Will the motor drop in? Will the controller plug into it? Will the throttle plug into the controller? How about the display? You need to be prepared to replace everything on the handlebars, plus the pedal assist sensor. Matching components from one controller to another is something you have to do individually.

This is another reason I build my own bikes. Also for geared hub motors, I stick with KT controllers (35a for a G060 and 25a for a front G020). And even with that, I buy the KT controllers from a single vendor (EBW) where I know how that vendor has spec'd the plug types on their controllers.

There's another benefit to having a deep bench when it comes to spares on hand. Build a bike and you can use some expensive spares instead of buying new. My Bullitt hill climber used a BBSHD, a completely built front motor/wheel assembly, a front controller, the entire drivetrain and what became the onboard charger.
 
I think it's going to be fun. IDK if I'm brave enough to try & ride in the snow. It's all good till you hit a snow packed spot.
Thats where you want dual throttles, which means independent controllers. You cut the rear wheel power PAS to a low value, bump up the front PAS and rely on the front to pull you through. If it gets slippery, you can use selective individual wheel throttle to get you thru. Its something you have to learn but is a quick thing to pick up. Takes maybe a day and a couple of slippery moments and you won't have trouble from then on.

Does anyone actually make a 1000watt front geared hub motor?
Pretty sure the answer is no. You would have to go to a custom setup you build yourself using something zany like a QS motor. But... take it from someone who has been doing this for awhile: There is very little to be gained with stupid power up front ... except for sheared dropouts. There is no fork in the world that was designed to have itself pulled on. I've had to mount a fat geared hub on a suspension fork as an emergency measure while a new fork was shipped to me and I have watched the front fork pull itself apart even under reduced power. And I've seen tons of pictures and stories of destroyed suspension forks where some dummy put a motor on it and it either failed immediately, or took awhile and then just broke apart under low power.

Come to a stop at a T intersection. Start from a stop and if you aren't very careful your powerful front motor will arc you into the intersection rather than turn to the right to join traffic. And if you don't have the motor set to slow-start, starting with a right wheel turn using a motor that chirp the tires even just on PAS... bike turns right so fast from a stop you can fall off.

Ideal power delivery on 2wd bike for the front motor is always slow-start, and always lower power. Once you get the hang of it, you can use independent front throttle to your advantage, but its a rare thing. In particular its the snow/sand situation described above. Not much else. As much as you do not want a synchronized throttle, you do want synch'd PAS. Thats a thing of beauty, again so long as you slow-start it up front.

On something like your Freego, which has product liability issues to think about with a single throttle and a suspension fork, I seriously doubt they are giving you much power in front. They do seem to be using a front fork that has a really serious set of dropouts which is a first for an on-sale 2wd bike (EDIT: Correction the UBCO does it up right and they do have a bespoke suspension fork designed for a front motor). But the use of a suspension fork just reinforces that they *have* to be cutting the power back in the front.

When Do these hub motors start failing, with stripped/wiped out sun or pinion gears? 2000 watts, & 50amps. There has to be a parts failure threshold on these geared hub motors at a point. To me the plastic gears or whatever they are made of looks to be the weak link. Thanks.
I have about 7000 miles on my 2wd/35a/52v G060 bike's wheels. I open them up roughly once a year and re-grease. The failures I have seen are the nylon gears and they come from throttlers who hammer them mercilessly. BUT the only failures I have seen are single-hub bikes. Dual hub motor setups put a LOT less wear on the motor. Just the reduction in heat alone is big. Its not 50%, its 25% vs. just a single motor working alone.
 
Thats where you want dual throttles, which means independent controllers. You cut the rear wheel power PAS to a low value, bump up the front PAS and rely on the front to pull you through. If it gets slippery, you can use selective individual wheel throttle to get you thru. Its something you have to learn but is a quick thing to pick up. Takes maybe a day and a couple of slippery moments and you won't have trouble from then on.


Pretty sure the answer is no. You would have to go to a custom setup you build yourself using something zany like a QS motor. But... take it from someone who has been doing this for awhile: There is very little to be gained with stupid power up front ... except for sheared dropouts. There is no fork in the world that was designed to have itself pulled on. I've had to mount a fat geared hub on a suspension fork as an emergency measure while a new fork was shipped to me and I have watched the front fork pull itself apart even under reduced power. And I've seen tons of pictures and stories of destroyed suspension forks where some dummy put a motor on it and it either failed immediately, or took awhile and then just broke apart under low power.

Come to a stop at a T intersection. Start from a stop and if you aren't very careful your powerful front motor will arc you into the intersection rather than turn to the right to join traffic. And if you don't have the motor set to slow-start, starting with a right wheel turn using a motor that chirp the tires even just on PAS... bike turns right so fast from a stop you can fall off.

Ideal power delivery on 2wd bike for the front motor is always slow-start, and always lower power. Once you get the hang of it, you can use independent front throttle to your advantage, but its a rare thing. In particular its the snow/sand situation described above. Not much else. As much as you do not want a synchronized throttle, you do want synch'd PAS. Thats a thing of beauty, again so long as you slow-start it up front.

On something like your Freego, which has product liability issues to think about with a single throttle and a suspension fork, I seriously doubt they are giving you much power in front. They do seem to be using a front fork that has a really serious set of dropouts which is a first for an on-sale 2wd bike (EDIT: Correction the UBCO does it up right and they do have a bespoke suspension fork designed for a front motor). But the use of a suspension fork just reinforces that they *have* to be cutting the power back in the front.


I have about 7000 miles on my 2wd/35a/52v G060 bike's wheels. I open them up roughly once a year and re-grease. The failures I have seen are the nylon gears and they come from throttlers who hammer them mercilessly. BUT the only failures I have seen are single-hub bikes. Dual hub motor setups put a LOT less wear on the motor. Just the reduction in heat alone is big. Its not 50%, its 25% vs. just a single motor working alone.
Thank you for the info. I appreciate your time & knowledge. So on a dual throttle bike, can you set it up so you have the option to run both motors with a single throttle as well. If you wanted that feature/option? Thanks.
 
Thank you for the info. I appreciate your time & knowledge. So on a dual throttle bike, can you set it up so you have the option to run both motors with a single throttle as well. If you wanted that feature/option?
I suppose its possible to do a splitter and then cabling from there to the two controllers. But I've never tried it or heard of it being done. Throttles need to transmit a range of signal and I have no idea whether splitting it will affect that.

Here is what I would consider to be the best splitters... you can try AliExpress too. I had this guy make me custom PAS and brake cable splitters back before he started offering these premade ones.


and here are some cheap Ali ones that might work fine.


I am assuming a standard Bafang HIGO yellow female throttle-side plug.

This is who I bought my HIGO extensions from on my last project, but you can get these almost anywhere and probably would want to shop around for a cable length that best suits whatever it is you need.

 
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I bought my Bafang kit from this guy: https://www.johnnynerdout.com/ He's very responsive and has several very helpful videos. He also does 20 min consultations to go over specific issues if you want to ask question about your build or bike. straight shooter. You can get full kits or components.
Johnny knows what he is doing for sure..
 
I respect that Johnny works hard to keep a level head in this eBike space - and he has always shot straight about the experience he gains from his ebike build - he hasn't sold out to Internet Sensationalism - yet !
 
@DieselTech I just found your thread describing the tech details of your bike. For once it looks like whoever designed a 2wd bike had their head screwed on somewhat straight. I see stuff like the Ecells bikes, which are typical in the marketplace, and I see a Version 1.0 implementation of 2wd whose seller either hasn't learned much if anything from experience, or they did and are milking v1.0 for all its worth (at a big premium price).

Your bike isn't perfect, but its got some serious improvements in its 2wd implementation. Just the fact they used torque arms on the front is huge. Plus for reals dual controllers. Not super strong ones but still thats another jump forward in terms of sophistication.

I'll leave my earlier post that makes some wrong assumptions alone, as what I said still applies. Just to other bikes than yours.
 
@DieselTech I just found your thread describing the tech details of your bike. For once it looks like whoever designed a 2wd bike had their head screwed on somewhat straight. I see stuff like the Ecells bikes, which are typical in the marketplace, and I see a Version 1.0 implementation of 2wd whose seller either hasn't learned much if anything from experience, or they did and are milking v1.0 for all its worth (at a big premium price).

Your bike isn't perfect, but its got some serious improvements in its 2wd implementation. Just the fact they used torque arms on the front is huge. Plus for reals dual controllers. Not super strong ones but still thats another jump forward in terms of sophistication.

I'll leave my earlier post that makes some wrong assumptions alone, as what I said still applies. Just to other bikes than yours.
Thanks. No it's not the best bike, but for being my 1st ebike it seems to be pretty solid. Yes this bike has been the subject to alot of my questions. This is why I also asked about the KT 35amp controllers. I think the KT 35Acontrollers would make a fine replacement for my Freego F3 Pro Max, but i maybe wrong. Also I would like to have a spare set of geared hub motors for on hand parts stock. Sorry for my rambling!
 
hmmmmm.....i wonder if it would be in the best interest of research and science if you just used this ebike as a learning tool then build the other one ...
 
hmmmmm.....i wonder if it would be in the best interest of research and science if you just used this ebike as a learning tool then build the other one ...
Thats what I ended up doing. The next bike usually did things the previous one couldn't, or didn't do well so I did it better next time.
  • v1.0: Dual hubs, dual batteries, front controller and smaller front battery slung under the handlebars.
  • v1.1: Dual hubs, dual batteries, equal sized batteries with front pack now on rear rack. Controller only in handlebar bag. 35a controllers on both motors. Rear controller in open air. Front with heat sinks and open to air at the top.
  • v1.2: Same as v1.1 but batteries are now directly connected in parallel.
  • v2.0: Improved bicycle parts everywhere and battery is now great big single pack with huge BMS powering both motors.
  • v3.0: Same as v2.0 but now a mid drive in the back so it can climb anything without strain. Whole different world for wheel and drivetrain durability and quality. Had to go back to v1.1 battery layout with v1.2 parallel connection due to limited frame space. Front wheel hub assist totally eliminates all of the high wear negatives of a hi-po mid drive.
  • Cargo 1.0: Drama-Free-AWD config. Lower power front wheel with torque heavy slow start to eliminate mid drive wear. Normally too-high gearing (52T) on mid drive for high speed option on flat ground. 11s for fast cycling cadence no matter the speed or load.
  • Cargo 1.1: Same as Cargo 1.0 but gearing completely changed for steep (brutal) hills, plus high cadence at low speeds so I can do shared use paths with idiot tourist pedestrians everywhere and still enjoy riding a bike.
I could have never done the cargo generations intelligently without having built the earlier mid+hub bikes, and I never would have even understood the weakness of the twin hubs if I had not built my first mid+hub.
 
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