Tires & Tubes Winter tire questions

[Smaug]

I'm thinking of immediately changing the stock Innova street tires on my incoming Juiced HyperScrambler2. (20 x 4) Enough people say they are dangerous and have reported falling that I think it's prudent, especially as the first miles on the bike will be in winter; the rubber will be hard. Other people say they're fine, but no one comments on temperature. The owner of the company has video of him tearing around a race track in southern California, but I assume it's hot there and the tires were under-inflated and well warmed up.

Maybe they will be OK in the warmer months, but in the colder months, I would like something that has soft enough rubber to stick on dry pavement. As long as I'm buying new tires already, I'm thinking maybe they should be knobbies, so that I can ride in shallow snow. I'm thinking when it gets really cold, knobbies aren't going to matter unless they're also studded. (due to the lugs not penetrating hard-packed snow)

Do I invest in studded knobbies @ $120/tire? If I leave the studs in, will it cause an issue when I'm running on dry road?

...or maybe dual sport tires like CST Scout and don't ride when there's snow on the street? (I'd be able to ride them in the warmer months too and not have to switch them every season)

 

[Smaug]

I'm leaning toward this Vee Tire Mission Command. Seems like a good knobby that would be better than the typical cheapie on the pavement:

Amazon.com

This one is tempting though just for the price:

Amazon.com

 

[m@Robertson]

Looking at the tires on the bike at their web site, they look like they'd be terrible at everything in a cold, rainy or snowy winter. You also brought up temperature and I am sure thats an issue as well with harder rubber. I have a Continental winter-specific tire for one of my bikes and they made the rubber so soft, it would wear out in weeks if I rode it during the summer. But in the cold its pliability is just right. I've heard it said the tire is best up to freezing temps and it becomes greasy over that. So you're right to be wondering about rubber hardness.

Those studded CST's are $158 each, and the studs mean the tires are only good for snow and dirt. Never pavement that is only wet or dry. You bet studs will cause issues when its dry. I've done it and the tires skated in cornering and braking.

What I have done is use big knobbies and big tire casings. Then you deflate to a low pressure and get by on the float, rather than trying to dig in with studs. Studs work better but knobbies at 6 psi work too. I would try to find a fatter-than-20x4.0 knobby tire. Assuming of course your frame will fit them. But that also brings to mind the fact that tires' Imperialist measurements tend to be more optimistic and a product of the tire company's marketing department than actual casing measurements. The ETRTO is USUALLY genuinely accurate in terms of casing width.

Boosted sells this tire in 20x5.0 (Super 73 is sold out of the same tire). Looks like a good rear tire bit may be too much. And they give you zero details on casing size etc. There is also a 4.5 version. I'd personally to the 4.5 if it was available simply because of the fitment question..

GRZLY Tire 20in x 5in, Override (Single)

Now with puncture-resistant override and available in a width of 20in. x 5in., the GRZLY offers a tread for those seeking to venture beyond the paved path. With an aggressive knobby tread pattern, the GRZLY has excellent grip on a variety of terrain, designed to dig into loose dirt and gravel...

boostedusa.com

 

[Smaug]

Looking at the tires on the bike at their web site, they look like they'd be terrible at everything in a cold, rainy or snowy winter.

Which tires were you talking about in this comment? I embedded several links.

 

[m@Robertson]

I'm leaning toward this Vee Tire Mission Command. Seems like a good knobby that would be better than the typical cheapie on the pavement:

Amazon.com

This one is tempting though just for the price:

Amazon.com

I know both of those tires, albeit in 26" sizes.

The Mission Command is a great tire, but its great for fast rolling on pavement where the tire 'sings' as a result of the knobs, which is great for warning pedestrians up ahead that you are coming. Its also at home on a packed dirt road. The ones I used were 26x4.8 which is a size no longer sold.

As for the Mongoose tire, that is in fact the Chaoyang Big Daddy. Chaoyang oem's that tire across more brand names than I can count, including Panaracer and Origin8. This tread pattern is probably the best jack-of-all-trades smooth-rolling knobby tread out there. I have put many thousands of miles on them in the 26x4.8 size (which is really a 26x4.3 if you measure it). It is a little more capable in cruddy conditions than the Mission Command, but the quality control on the tire is iffy. You can get great ones or bad ones. You'll know real fast if for example the casing is uneven and the tire tread jigs sideways. The VERY best of these are the 30tpi versions if you can find them. They are like mini tank treads and typically are available under the Arisun label (which is Chaoyang's EU and North American regional brand).

I probably have more miles on this Chaoyang tire tread than any other fat tire.

I wouldn't try using either one of them in snow. The Mission Command is pretty bad on the dirt roads I rode it on that became mud in the rain.

 

[m@Robertson]

Which tires were you talking about in this comment? I embedded several links.

I just googled the bike's name and this came up

Closeout HyperScrambler 2: Dual Battery Capacity E-Bike

The new HyperScrambler 2 with dual 52V 15.6Ah batteries delivers an insane 60+ riding range! Click here to learn more!

www.juicedbikes.com

Slicks.

 

[DieselTech]

I'm thinking about making a set of studded snow tires. Them suckers are pricey.

 

[HumanPerson]

i just seen the old zip ties (prolly 100 or more) around the tire method lol

 

[m@Robertson]

i just seen the old zip ties (prolly 100 or more) around the tire method lol

That is probably the best idea methinks. Cheap and easy to undo.

 

[DieselTech]

Lmao cheap 20x4 tires with some panhead screws, screwed from the inside of tire with a set of Mr. Tuffy XXL liners. I'm thinking this will work just fine. I know I'm crazy, & redneck! Call me Dirty Macquiver!!!

 

[m@Robertson]

At a certain point though, how much is your time worth? I like the screw pattern drawn out on those tires, but I'd double the frequency. And you do it on two tires. Everything I have heard from people who have done this is its a pretty tedious process.

 

[m@Robertson]

I think if I was going to try and jerry rig a studded tire, what I'd do is buy a studdable tire and then put my own studs in. Skip all the drama of drilling thru the tire and cutting up the tire casing's cords.

https://amzn.to/49th2ym

EDIT: Looking further into this, those studs would definitely be a bad choice. They screw in pointy side down which is a terrible idea. There is a bicycle version that has a flat bottom instead.

 

[DieselTech]

At a certain point though, how much is your time worth? I like the screw pattern drawn out on those tires, but I'd double the frequency. And you do it on two tires. Everything I have heard from people who have done this is its a pretty tedious process.

Yeah I'm thinking I'm going try it. But like you said, I'm going to double the tread pattern frequency of screws. Yes I think tedious might be a understatement.

 

[Smaug]

i just seen the old zip ties (prolly 100 or more) around the tire method lol

How does the bead get seated with zip ties around the tire?
...or do you mean zip ties around the lugs?

 

[HumanPerson]

How does the bead get seated with zip ties around the tire?
...or do you mean zip ties around the lugs?

oh some dude put hundreds of them around his tires and rims but when he went for a jaunt in the cold snow they all broke

They do make these though, https://www.ebay.com/itm/3547793790...1291&msclkid=2f6d537d436c131a9b1736306b973b69



and these, https://www.slipnottraction.com/

 

[Smaug]

I know both of those tires, albeit in 26" sizes.

The Mission Command is a great tire, but its great for fast rolling on pavement where the tire 'sings' as a result of the knobs, which is great for warning pedestrians up ahead that you are coming. Its also at home on a packed dirt road. The ones I used were 26x4.8 which is a size no longer sold.

As for the Mongoose tire, that is in fact the Chaoyang Big Daddy. Chaoyang oem's that tire across more brand names than I can count, including Panaracer and Origin8. This tread pattern is probably the best jack-of-all-trades smooth-rolling knobby tread out there. I have put many thousands of miles on them in the 26x4.8 size (which is really a 26x4.3 if you measure it). It is a little more capable in cruddy conditions than the Mission Command, but the quality control on the tire is iffy. You can get great ones or bad ones. You'll know real fast if for example the casing is uneven and the tire tread jigs sideways. The VERY best of these are the 30tpi versions if you can find them. They are like mini tank treads and typically are available under the Arisun label (which is Chaoyang's EU and North American regional brand).

I probably have more miles on this Chaoyang tire tread than any other fat tire.

I wouldn't try using either one of them in snow. The Mission Command is pretty bad on the dirt roads I rode it on that became mud in the rain.

I think I'll save some money then and go with the Mongoose/Chao Yang. Deflate to 6-10 psi when it's snowy. Maybe switch back to the OEM road tires when it's reliably above 60 °F. I guess the key is to use them when warm and not over-inflate.

I think they're not too heavy either. (my heybike Ranger had the Chao Yang version; they were OK, but loud) I'll put some FlatOut in them to pop-proof them.

I just googled the bike's name and this came up

Closeout HyperScrambler 2: Dual Battery Capacity E-Bike

The new HyperScrambler 2 with dual 52V 15.6Ah batteries delivers an insane 60+ riding range! Click here to learn more!

www.juicedbikes.com

Slicks.

Ah, you were talking about the bike's OEM tires.

---

Any tips on jacking an eMoped up to get the wheels off?

User Uncle FJester on youtube uses two step ladders with a 2x4 across them, supporting the bike under the rack or something. I'm thinking of a way to hold it up cheaply that is pretty safe. Not sure a floor jack would be steady enough; I'm kind of digging the stepladder idea, or even a matched pair of stepstools of the right height? At 120 lbs., the bike is heavy, but not so heavy it can't be lifted manually, as a motorcycle would be.

 

[Smaug]

oh some dude put hundreds of them around his tires and rims but when he went for a jaunt in the cold snow they all broke

They do make these though, https://www.ebay.com/itm/354779379003?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr=1&amdata=enc:1bcg1mlVqT5u78c3GeWuf6Q8&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=354779379003&targetid=4580840334207758&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=437225721&mkgroupid=1235851340419610&rlsatarget=pla-4580840334207758&abcId=9300906&merchantid=51291&msclkid=2f6d537d436c131a9b1736306b973b69



and these, https://www.slipnottraction.com/

Ah, I see. Around the tires AND wheels, not just the tires. (duh)

Yeah, they'd have to be pretty beefy zip ties, and good quality that wouldn't get too brittle in the cold.

I don't think the Slipnot chains would work on the street tread tires that come on the HyperScrambler 2... Seems like the knobby lugs would hold them in place.

 

[munirider]

I think I'll save some money then and go with the Mongoose/Chao Yang. Deflate to 6-10 psi when it's snowy. Maybe switch back to the OEM road tires when it's reliably above 60 °F. I guess the key is to use them when warm and not over-inflate.

I think they're not too heavy either. (my heybike Ranger had the Chao Yang version; they were OK, but loud) I'll put some FlatOut in them to pop-proof them.


Ah, you were talking about the bike's OEM tires.

---

Any tips on jacking an eMoped up to get the wheels off?

User Uncle FJester on youtube uses two step ladders with a 2x4 across them, supporting the bike under the rack or something. I'm thinking of a way to hold it up cheaply that is pretty safe. Not sure a floor jack would be steady enough; I'm kind of digging the stepladder idea, or even a matched pair of stepstools of the right height? At 120 lbs., the bike is heavy, but not so heavy it can't be lifted manually, as a motorcycle would be.

If you have a cable winch or preferably two you could winch it up in your garage, wouldn't be supper stable to work on swinging but it won't fall over. Maybe you could then stabilize it with a bicycle repair stand if you have one.

 

[m@Robertson]

Any tips on jacking an eMoped up to get the wheels off?

For my two great big longtails, I use a Park bike stand and RV jackstands to supplement, so there are typically three support points. But this is on bikes that have wideloaders built onto them so there is a rear superstructure for me to take advantage of.

I know of folks who, for roadside emergencies with a Big Fat Dummy, use a simple small come-along and winch the bike up with it via a tree branch. I can think of one winter night time flat where I wished I had one of those, but I got thru it with the bike on its side.

 

[Smaug]

If you have a cable winch or preferably two you could winch it up in your garage, wouldn't be supper stable to work on swinging but it won't fall over. Maybe you could then stabilize it with a bicycle repair stand if you have one.

While looking at engine hoist winches on Harbor Freight yesterday, I thought of that. I'm not sure I can trust the 2x4s on my garage ceiling to support the weight of the bike + winch, though. Maybe if I attach a 2x4 to the stud over maybe a 3' lenghth, it would spread the load out enough? Then use the tow straps to get two points attached...

For my two great big longtails, I use a Park bike stand and RV jackstands to supplement, so there are typically three support points. But this is on bikes that have wideloaders built onto them so there is a rear superstructure for me to take advantage of.

I'm having a hard time imagining how that would work. I'm not sure what you mean by "wideloaders"

I know of folks who, for roadside emergencies with a Big Fat Dummy, use a simple small come-along and winch the bike up with it via a tree branch. I can think of one winter night time flat where I wished I had one of those, but I got thru it with the bike on its side.

Ironically, I have a lot of trees on my property, but none of them have a branch that is low enough and strong enough. Plus, weather.

I'm thinking maybe build some kind of wooden A-frame stand for the garage? Kind of like those tripod rigs they use to support pots while cooking out in nature, but bigger. Maybe a foldable bipod, and brace it against the wall?