DIY ebiker57
New member
Who likes fast E bikes besides me?
Mine will do 42 mph and is fast enough for me.
Mine will do 42 mph and is fast enough for me.
Who in here wants a fast ebike?
- Thread starter DIY ebiker57
- Start date
Voodoochild
New member
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pagheca
Guest
Absolutely fine with me! That would be great, as long as they pay for insurance, have a license plate, the driver gets a license, and they are subjected to the same rules of any motorbike.
If someone hits my car (or me) at 42 mph, I want to be sure they can be identified and have the means to pay for the damages.
If someone hits my car (or me) at 42 mph, I want to be sure they can be identified and have the means to pay for the damages.
KB's_ebikes
Member
Cycling is actually a relatively safe mode of transportation, if you carefully look at the statistics. If you add speed, say like motorcycle speeds of 45mph+, you get into the territory of the highest accident and fatal accident rates of any mode of transportation. So either one needs protective gear, or a lot of money in the bank to pay for the skin grafts, surgeries, assisted living facilities etc health insurance typically won't pay for.... of course just in case one hits the asphalt unprotected.
Although I considered a faster ebike and speed is definitely tempting I decided otherwise. You can't make risks disappear but you can certainly mitigate them. So if I want speed I hop on my motorcycle where I can fully enjoy speed while wearing a helmet and all necessary protective gear. Same holds of course true for all the Harley riders you see riding with bare skin. It looks all fun until you read their stories once they get into that one fatal or debilitating accident. YOLO!
Although I considered a faster ebike and speed is definitely tempting I decided otherwise. You can't make risks disappear but you can certainly mitigate them. So if I want speed I hop on my motorcycle where I can fully enjoy speed while wearing a helmet and all necessary protective gear. Same holds of course true for all the Harley riders you see riding with bare skin. It looks all fun until you read their stories once they get into that one fatal or debilitating accident. YOLO!
Voodoochild
New member
Agree 100%. People who don't wear gear are pretty ignorant. I have taken spills at 40 mph on the Enduro and slower on a Motorcycle and if it was not for my gear I may have been pretty banged up. So yeah wear the gear even when you ride Ebikes
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pagheca
Guest
OK, but the problem is not so much the harm you can do to yourself. For that in so many sports you can kill yourself no problem, think of mountaineering or even swimming.
The problem is the damage you can do to others and to other people's property, since you are also driving on roads open to traffic.
The problem is the damage you can do to others and to other people's property, since you are also driving on roads open to traffic.
KB's_ebikes
Member
I disagree. The highest number, if not the majority, of fatal accidents on two wheels (aka motorcycles plus potentially fast ebikes) are actually self-inflicted (high speed, not wearing helmets, protective gear, dui) aka one vehicle accidents. Besides, for the remaining accidents that are more rarely the cyclists' fault compare the potential damage a car can do to a bicycle (and rider), with the damage a bicycle can do to the car. My son actually broke off a car mirror with his regular bicycle (big city traffic). No insurance was needed, but an expensive lesson for a college kid.
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pagheca
Guest
yes, the "highest number". And just BECAUSE the speed involved are low. If you remove this factor it becomes just another motorbike (but with the brake and frame of a vehicle designed for much lower speed). You want a motorbike speed? Buy a "motorbike". And comply with all related rules.
Is not a question of agreeing or disagreeing. Is a question of public safety and personal liability.
Is not a question of agreeing or disagreeing. Is a question of public safety and personal liability.
KB's_ebikes
Member
In fact, it is a question of agreeing or disagreeing whether this is a question of public safety and insurance (not personal) liability.
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pagheca
Guest
Forgive me, but I struggle to understand your reasoning.
What distinguishes a vehicle that is exempt from insurance, license and plate from a vehicle that is required all of them? Nothing, except speed, power, and the engine. So why should a "motorcycle," because that is what it is, with an engine, throttle, speed and power be exempt?
Imagine riding around with your child and you get rained on by a moron at 100 km/h without insurance, license, license plate who then runs away. But he is on an "ebike" [sic], right...
Is that okay with you? Fine for me. Fortunately for the vast majority and the majority of legislators is not. At least in Europe.
What distinguishes a vehicle that is exempt from insurance, license and plate from a vehicle that is required all of them? Nothing, except speed, power, and the engine. So why should a "motorcycle," because that is what it is, with an engine, throttle, speed and power be exempt?
Imagine riding around with your child and you get rained on by a moron at 100 km/h without insurance, license, license plate who then runs away. But he is on an "ebike" [sic], right...
Is that okay with you? Fine for me. Fortunately for the vast majority and the majority of legislators is not. At least in Europe.
KB's_ebikes
Member
You are forgiven. It seems you are saying that legislators in Europe have taken care of it already for you.
If you carefully read what I wrote it says that statistical data seem to imply that fast ebikers, just like motorcyclists, likely pose more danger to themselves than to others. Sure, the insurance companies would love to impose mandatory insurance on all ebikes for the potential risk of damage ebikes may or may not cause. Now the latter is the part where one can agree or not agree.
In case you don't agree, where is your data showing that many accidents are CAUSED by ebikes and are also causing massive damage to cars, and even the children you speak of, all of which would require registration and insurance for ebikes?
Keep in mind, existing laws (in the US) say that class 2 ebikes with throttle can go only up to 20mph and class 3 ebikes without throttle can only go up to 28mph. Anything faster is in fact illegal. The problem is that existing laws are not strictly enforced, and ebike companies get away with delivering class 3 ebikes and telling people how to derestrict them. That's also why in the US we have mandatory uninsured/underinsured insurance coverage which cover your medical bills and property damage if you're hit by an uninsured or underinsured driver, which is already not exactly cheap.
Insurance companies would, of course, be more than happy to get additional sources of income from all ebike owner to cover the same risks already covered. I am sure they are lobbying right now to pass legislation requiring insurance for ALL ebikes. It seems statistical data is not on their side, though, unless you can show me otherwise. This is not a problem of insurance, it's a problem of enforcing existing laws and holding ebike sellers/companies/importers accountable.
If you carefully read what I wrote it says that statistical data seem to imply that fast ebikers, just like motorcyclists, likely pose more danger to themselves than to others. Sure, the insurance companies would love to impose mandatory insurance on all ebikes for the potential risk of damage ebikes may or may not cause. Now the latter is the part where one can agree or not agree.
In case you don't agree, where is your data showing that many accidents are CAUSED by ebikes and are also causing massive damage to cars, and even the children you speak of, all of which would require registration and insurance for ebikes?
Keep in mind, existing laws (in the US) say that class 2 ebikes with throttle can go only up to 20mph and class 3 ebikes without throttle can only go up to 28mph. Anything faster is in fact illegal. The problem is that existing laws are not strictly enforced, and ebike companies get away with delivering class 3 ebikes and telling people how to derestrict them. That's also why in the US we have mandatory uninsured/underinsured insurance coverage which cover your medical bills and property damage if you're hit by an uninsured or underinsured driver, which is already not exactly cheap.
Insurance companies would, of course, be more than happy to get additional sources of income from all ebike owner to cover the same risks already covered. I am sure they are lobbying right now to pass legislation requiring insurance for ALL ebikes. It seems statistical data is not on their side, though, unless you can show me otherwise. This is not a problem of insurance, it's a problem of enforcing existing laws and holding ebike sellers/companies/importers accountable.
addertooth
Well-known member
Toss my hat in the ring. I have a Motor Goat V3 ordered. It should run at about 45 MPH peak.
Most of the time it will be ran at about 20 MPH, but it is good to have the option for higher speeds if the conditions allow it.
I have a scary supercharged track-prepped car. Just because it CAN go fast, doesn't mean it is driven fast all the time.
Everything has way for the operator to control speed. When I drive that car on the streets, it is within the posted speed limit.
It is at a sensible speed in all places but the track.
I used to own a Motorcycle with performance upgrades on the engine which were quite significant.
Both of my wrecks were at 35 MPH, Both included a car breaking the law.
I know my biggest risk is not speed, but the foolish actions of other drivers. And yes, I am good at wearing safety gear.
Most of the time it will be ran at about 20 MPH, but it is good to have the option for higher speeds if the conditions allow it.
I have a scary supercharged track-prepped car. Just because it CAN go fast, doesn't mean it is driven fast all the time.
Everything has way for the operator to control speed. When I drive that car on the streets, it is within the posted speed limit.
It is at a sensible speed in all places but the track.
I used to own a Motorcycle with performance upgrades on the engine which were quite significant.
Both of my wrecks were at 35 MPH, Both included a car breaking the law.
I know my biggest risk is not speed, but the foolish actions of other drivers. And yes, I am good at wearing safety gear.
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pagheca
Guest
Sure. If I own a Ferrari and follow the rules, what's the problem?
But again, I guess your car and your motorcycle have a license plate, you have a valid driving license and insured your vehicles. The problem is that there are people who ride a motorcycle but call it an ebike and want to be exempt from all this.
But again, I guess your car and your motorcycle have a license plate, you have a valid driving license and insured your vehicles. The problem is that there are people who ride a motorcycle but call it an ebike and want to be exempt from all this.
addertooth
Well-known member
There is no question there are people who use all manner of vehicles in an unsafe fashion. But then, that is the operator, and not the machine.
To blame the machine robs the operator of the value of his agency to make choices, both good and bad. You cannot show you are a good person, if you don't have the ability to be a bit bad, but make an active choice to do the right thing.
Although eBikes are becoming more common, they are still uncommon enough (where I live), that a miscreant can't hide in the forest of eBikes.
There is no other eBike in my town that looks like mine. Very easily identified. Yeah, it was that guy on a purple bike with green saddlebags.
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pagheca
Guest
Maybe I am not clear enough. Let's try a last time.
I never blamed the means of transportation.
Maybe I have some difficulty in explaining myself (or many in reading what I write...) but what I have said several times is different. For me, you can have a 200-mph electric motorcycle as well. No problem with that. But it is a MOTORCYCLE, not an EBIKE. And as such it has to submit to all the rules of that means of transportation.
I never blamed the means of transportation.
Maybe I have some difficulty in explaining myself (or many in reading what I write...) but what I have said several times is different. For me, you can have a 200-mph electric motorcycle as well. No problem with that. But it is a MOTORCYCLE, not an EBIKE. And as such it has to submit to all the rules of that means of transportation.
addertooth
Well-known member
I agree that (at this moment) eBikes are the "wild wild west", or as I would rather put it, we are in the Golden Age of eBikes.
Regulations have not (yet) caught up with what can be imported. As such, we have an amazing set of choices.
During this time (before such import restrictions come into play), I am simply going to make the selections which please me.
I know local enforcement well, they won't care how many watts my bike has as long as I ride it reasonably.
My current bike is a dual 1Kw motor bike. I don't ride it like a hooligan, and the police never have a reason to wonder how many watts it is.
Locally, I feel this trend will continue. I have no desire to travel to a location where the police are more fussy.
I think we all start like this; human nature.
- Some of us will do it legally. (very few)
- Others will break the law sensibly. (kind of like speeding < 10 mph over the limit in a car)
- Others will start to do it, then realize the wisdom of laws.
What I DON'T like is when the government turns it into a revenue stream, it gets more expensive year after year until it's noticeable. Then, when enforcement is needed the government says: "we have no money for that!"
My fastest eBike (HyperScrambler 2, see signature) will go 32 mph on a fresh charge, which is fast enough for side streets or main streets 35 mph and under that have a lane for faster traffic to pass. I didn't think it would pan out this way, but that is the one that has so far gotten the LEAST amount of use. I tweaked my knee the other day and have been using it more to give it a break but without having to take the cage.
Welcome to the forum; please try not to be the clever guy who brings Johnny Law down upon us.
