Retired and new to ebikes

red said:
DNG here, looking to learn. About me: Fair electronics experience, long-ago bike technician, new to ebike power systems. Long-time motorcycle rider, but now I want something greener. Searching for a reasonably-priced fat-tire ebike; recommendations welcome here. I'd prefer gearing that helps the motor, not just the rider. Do not want pedal-assist (that much, I do know). :cool: Thanks . . .
Click to expand...
When you say you don't want pedal assist what do you mean? I am sure you are aware that every e bike I have ever read about or seen has pedal assist. Whether you use PA is up to you, but you would need throttle on demand which usually requires the computer being set to at least PD level one. There may be some exceptions to that rule, but be sure to ask those questions.

I also assume when you mention gearing that helps the motor you are referring to Mid-Drive motor systems, correct? RED it helps to be very specific when you are talking about the various features you desire on an e Bike...
 
red said:
Catseye,
Thanks, that Ariel Rider X-52 has some good features. but I have pretty much decided against hub motors.
We have some local hills, and big summer heat. The air is thin here (4800 MSL), so what gets hot, stays hot longer.
The plan here is to have gearing that helps reduce the motor's efforts, not just the rider's effort.
Click to expand...
Sounds like mid drive is what you need. The CYC motor system may offer you more flexibility in gear than the Bafang motor systems do. I think they also incorporate torque sensors that may fit you riding need more.
 
Hoggdoc said:
When you say you don't want pedal assist what do you mean? I am sure you are aware that every e bike I have ever read about or seen has pedal assist. Whether you use PA is up to you, but you would need throttle on demand which usually requires the computer being set to at least PD level one. There may be some exceptions to that rule, but be sure to ask those questions.
I also assume when you mention gearing that helps the motor you are referring to Mid-Drive motor systems, correct? RED it helps to be very specific when you are talking about the various features you desire on an e Bike...
Click to expand...
Hoggdoc,

Thanks. Your assumptions are correct, AFAIK. Being new to ebikes, I left my hopes a bit open-ended, because I do not want to exclude any ideas or things that I do not know about. If you look back at the videos I have linked, it seems like that DIY mid-drive works as I would hope: throttle on demand, with no pedaling needed at all. It appears to be a straight throttle system, with a freewheel for the pedals. Of course I could add foot-power as I wish, but otherwise it works like a motorcycle. A system like that would be fine for me, but if there is also a PAS or similar option, I could accept that, as long as I can completely ignore that function if I choose. Throttle on demand may be just what I want. The CYC conversion kits do check most of my boxes, except the prices are steep.

One motor system that uses the bike gearing would be a mid-drive, again to my limited knowledge, but if there are any alternatives, I'm game. Hub motors are fine for level cruising, but I do not believe they can pull the hills we have here. I would expect that even a mid-drive would not be sprinting uphill here. That would be fine, though, as long as it does not quit on me. To be more specific, I do not expect long range for my initial purchase. If necessary, I can add a second battery later for longer trips, but not right now. Dollars count, here. Thanks again. :cool:
 
@red
This is a good one and with the eggrider display you can get upclose and personal deep within the controller settings.
lunacycle.com

Bafang BBSHD Mid Drive Ebike Kit

Lowest price anywhere on the BBSHD. The new bafang 1000 BBHD will put out a maximum of 1600 watts and is the most powerful ebike kit ever and its a mid drive!
lunacycle.com lunacycle.com

All throttle all day if ya want to :)

Hope this helps.

HP
 
HumanPerson said:
@redThis is a good one and with the eggrider display you can get upclose and personal deep within the controller settings.
lunacycle.com

Bafang BBSHD Mid Drive Ebike Kit

Lowest price anywhere on the BBSHD. The new bafang 1000 BBHD will put out a maximum of 1600 watts and is the most powerful ebike kit ever and its a mid drive!
lunacycle.com lunacycle.com
All throttle all day if ya want to :) Hope this helps.
HP
Click to expand...
HumanPerson,

Thanks. Lotsa options, not sure what I would need (or not) there. Guessing that I would need their chainring, because I can't say if the bike's chainring will work there. (No bike yet.) Naturally, the web site says "out of stock." I think I would need a freewheel for the pedal crank, too. Looks like about US$ 1500 with a middle-sized battery. All in all, maybe that is a fair starting point. Oh well, the chief difference between a man and a boy . . . :cool:
 
red said:
HumanPerson,

Thanks. Lotsa options, not sure what I would need (or not) there. Guessing that I would need their chainring, because I can't say if the bike's chainring will work there. (No bike yet.) Naturally, the web site says "out of stock." I think I would need a freewheel for the pedal crank, too. Looks like about US$ 1500 with a middle-sized battery. All in all, maybe that is a fair starting point. Oh well, the chief difference between a man and a boy . . . :cool:
Click to expand...
You're welcome.
You dont have to buy from lunacycle.com i was just throwoing that out there for reference.
You can go with a BBS02 as well for cheaper, but the same controller and settings can be changed..make sense?

With the BBSHD or BBS02 it seems you can be in the ballpark with your desires...however...do your desires meet your Needs? Something to think about there.

This hobby gets expensive.The BBSHD and BBS02 come with a freewheel crank assmebly right out of the box.

I like to go far and have NO range Anxiety so i get bigger...52v 30ah up to 45ah so far. I've built Hub drives and Mid drives
and they both have a place...for instance, my hub drive loves to cruise the flats at 35mph and the mid drive loves to chew up crazy hills and spit them out ;)

If you build it the way you WANT it, then later down the road you'll poke yurself in the eye while thinking about what your actual NEEDS are from an ebike...make sense red?

There are so many variables it drives me nuts :D


Ride Safe!

HP :cool:
 
HumanPerson,

Thanks, good to know. So far I think I need a range of maybe a dozen miles, some cargo space, gears for hills, throttle on demand, and all on a bike that that looks not-worth-stealing.. Not sure about any extras, beyond the basics. I came to listen and learn. :cool:
 
red said:
CloneWerks,

I realize this link shows a homemade rig, but I may not be the only guy in the market for two chainrings, throttle, and freewheel mid-drive set-up. For me this is about ideal, other than the geek appearance of the system. Like the bike, too. Not sure where the batteries went. Details below.


mid drive 750 watt DC brushed motor electric bike 1/4" 5T chain drive on homemade freewheel cranks
with 80T sprocket (5T:80T) spinning the 18T chain ring powering the 11-34T rear wheel cassette.
Click to expand...
Holy Toledo! 750W applied through 80T chainring to 11T rear wheel cassette? That thing must go 50 mph!
 
1dash1,

Don't know anything about that video project, except as an example of a few features that I want. Turns out that the BBSHD mid-drive checks most of my boxes already. Since they offer several sizes of chainrings for that assembly, it appears to be possible to add a second chainring to the front, with a front derailleur That option may need some tinkering, but I'm game. I'm not looking for speed; I just don't want the rig to fall flat on its' face when climbing paved roads in town.
 
red said:
1dash1,

Don't know anything about that video project, except as an example of a few features that I want. Turns out that the BBSHD mid-drive checks most of my boxes already. Since they offer several sizes of chainrings for that assembly, it appears to be possible to add a second chainring to the front, with a front derailleur That option may need some tinkering, but I'm game. I'm not looking for speed; I just don't want the rig to fall flat on its' face when climbing paved roads in town.
Click to expand...
Not sure how steep your hills are, but you might consider this e-bike:

(Check the comments section. Supposedly the hills covered in this video might have been as steep as 18% grade. 1000W Bafang motor/52V/20aH battery. Rear hub motor with 104 nM torque, I would have guessed that the Ariel Rider Kepler would have been good at climbing hills up to around 15%. I was surprised at how well it did ... assuming the hills were indeed in the 18% range.)
 
1dash1 said:
Not sure how steep your hills are, but you might consider this e-bike:
https://youtube.com xentXdehL1s
Check the comments section. Supposedly the hills covered in this video might have been as steep as 18% grade. 1000W Bafang motor/52V/20aH battery. Rear hub motor with 104 nM torque, I would have guessed that the Ariel Rider Kepler would have been good at climbing hills up to around 15%. I was surprised at how well it did ... assuming the hills were indeed in the 18% range.
Click to expand...
1dash1,

Yeah, I would doubt that claimed 18% grade as well. Here, we have a (realistic) 5.4% grade hill, needing one minute at 10 MPH (16 KPH), and a 6.7% grade hill, needing three minutes at 10 MPH. I would be well content with half of those speeds, and twice the time stated.
Most of our local streets are much less in grade, but miles long at constant grades. If my ebike can do those runs, I will be a happy camper. I have about decided to convert a 26" trail bike (for the nice suspension), rather than buying new.

The video shows two one-minute climbs, at some unknown grade. That may or may not be good, but dollars count here. All performance claims aside, I just want a capable ebike that looks like it is Not-Worth-Stealing.
 
red said:
1dash1,

Yeah, I would doubt that claimed 18% grade as well. Here, we have a (realistic) 5.4% grade hill, needing one minute at 10 MPH (16 KPH), and a 6.7% grade hill, needing three minutes at 10 MPH. I would be well content with half of those speeds, and twice the time stated.
Most of our local streets are much less in grade, but miles long at constant grades. If my ebike can do those runs, I will be a happy camper. I have about decided to convert a 26" trail bike (for the nice suspension), rather than buying new.

The video shows two one-minute climbs, at some unknown grade. That may or may not be good, but dollars count here. All performance claims aside, I just want a capable ebike that looks like it is Not-Worth-Stealing.
Click to expand...
Red, this is my Hub drive. It dont like hills but it get's over'em ;)

1500w voilamart hub drive, 52v 35ah battery, 2000w controller on a $211.00 walmart schwinn glenwood bike.

full


This has no PAS, just all throttle. It can cruise at 45MPH for about 38 miles one way all throttle. It will climb hills but heats up more than I like it to.

The battery cost more than the bike and motor kit put together :ROFLMAO:

Anyway...A good hard tail mtb you are comfy on and from what you tell us...a BBS02 or the BBSHD will do what you describe and more.

The battery should be your biggest cost...from what you say....I gather that a good 52v 30ah battery and a BBSXX with an Eggrider display to Tune the settings/controller will do what you say you need an ebikie to do for ya mate :)

Keep us posted!
 
HumanPerson said:
Red, this is my Hub drive. It dont like hills but it get's over'em ;)
1500w voilamart hub drive, 52v 35ah battery, 2000w controller on a $211.00 walmart schwinn glenwood bike.
This has no PAS, just all throttle. It can cruise at 45MPH for about 38 miles one way all throttle. It will climb hills but heats up more than I like it to.
The battery cost more than the bike and motor kit put together :ROFLMAO: Anyway...A good hard tail mtb you are comfy on and from what you tell us...a BBS02 or the BBSHD will do what you describe and more. The battery should be your biggest cost...from what you say....I gather that a good 52v 30ah battery and a BBSXX with an Eggrider display to Tune the settings/controller will do what you say you need an ebikie to do for ya mate :) Keep us posted!
Click to expand...
HumanPerson,

Okay, the BBSXX sounds good. Motor heat is the main problem that I hope to avoid. Guess I need to learn about that Eggrider display. All I would expect is Voltage/charge level remaining, but if there is more to know, I'd want to be aware of that stuff. Thanks.
 
red said:
HumanPerson,

Okay, the BBSXX sounds good. Motor heat is the main problem that I hope to avoid. Guess I need to learn about that Eggrider display. All I would expect is Voltage/charge level remaining, but if there is more to know, I'd want to be aware of that stuff. Thanks.
Click to expand...
With a hub drive one can put statorade in it to help with cooling...but again.........from what you say your requirements are...

a BBSXX with an Eggrider display will suit your needs and then some if you desire.

We're here to help if we can.
 
Hi Red,

I'm confused (but many people would say that is my normal state of being).

I believe you said that you want to pedal as little as possible. If that is there case then you probably don't want a mid-drive. I think you want a hub drive with a throttle and a really big battery. If you have a solid bike and you are handy, I suggest a conversation. You can get a decent one for less than $700 on eBay.

Keep in mind what others have said about the brakes: The bike will be heavy and can go quite fast.
 
procreator said:
Hi Red,
I believe you said that you want to pedal as little as possible. If that is there case then you probably don't want a mid-drive. I think you want a hub drive with a throttle and a really big battery. If you have a solid bike and you are handy, I suggest a conversation. You can get a decent one for less than $700 on eBay.
Click to expand...
Procreator,
Well, not quite, but thanks. I like the idea of pedaling, but physically, I can't do enough, long enough, to be depending on it. Exercise just makes things worse, but I do what I can. The hills we have here would burn up a hub motor, or so I'm told. So far, the Bafang mid-drive kit checks most of the boxes for me, especially the pedal free-wheel and on-demand throttle. I plan to add a second (smaller) chainring to the kit, for the hills. I found a hefty old mountain bike with front and rear suspension; I can certainly do the conversion. With two chainrings and the rear cassette, I may not go uphill fast, but I will get there. Since we have serious Winters here, I still need to find safer batteries (my other thread), or build some kind of outdoor heated (warmed?) bunker to store the batteries. I'm retired now, and a house fire from batteries would wreck my whole lifestyle, such as it is. Thanks again, I need all the help I can get. :cool:
 

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