Help with Charge settings for 48V, 15Ah E-Bike battery.

[Mesarz]

Hello I am new here and very much in need of help. Sorry if this has been posted before, I cannot find anything relating to my specific issue. I have a Cycle Satiator and this thing is way confusing for the noobie. I have purchased an eBike and battery, link to battery here https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084TK35MK/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 . It's title Emojo Electric Bike Battery, 500W Motor Lithium Li-ion Energy Cell, Rechargeable Battery for E-Bike/Fat Tire Bikes/Mountain Bike (48V, 15Ah) . There are no preset profiles for my battery type and I don't want to abuse the battery with charging it wrong, can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

 

[ElHegpah]

"48V" is a label. It does not describe the series cell count, or the accurate, fully charged voltage.

Since you have purchased a battery, then a charger for a different seller, it is VITALLY IMPORTANT that you know your series count, which will give you the accurate, fully charged voltage.

It will be either a 12S battery, which times 4.2V per cell gives you 50.40 volts fully charged, OR

It will be a 13S battery, which times 4.2V per cell gives 54.60V fully charged.

BOTH of these types of batteries are currently sold, with a "48V" label applied.

You can guess, or you can accept opinions, but you need to be aware that if you charge a 12S battery to the 13S voltage, you will need your fire alarms and smoke detectors, and do NOT repeat NOT spray water on a lithium battery fire, you must smother it.

If you open the battery to the BMS, and count the small wires on the multi-pin connector, minus one for the ground, that should give you the correct series count.

Or if you know the cell count, the accurate ah rating of the battery, and the type of cells used, you can work it out from there.

There are many who will tell you that a "48V" battery MUST BE 54.6V, and they do not really give a crap if you burn your house down.

I don't either, I just don't want my insurance to go up.

 

[Mesarz]

So if I'm counting 12 white 1 red 1 black wire on the multipin connector, that means its 14 total - 1 for the ground so I have a 13S battery? And thanks for all the safety tips, they really don't teach you this stuff like ever.

 

[ElHegpah]

Well, crap. There is usually one black, then all the rest go to individual parallel groups. NOT, one red, one black, then some other color for the groups. There is NOT, to my knowledge, a Neg and a Pos, Then the groups, just a Neg, then the groups.

They may just have run out of one or the other color at the factory.

If you have a voltmeter, you could test black to #1, #2, etc. This gets a bit tricky, each one adds to the previous group, i.e. 4, 8, 12, and so on, except it is in steps of 4.2, and that is only when fully charged, they will vary, two digits past the decimal needed for detailed testing, however you just need to know the count of steps, total.

If you test a pin, and it does not add to the voltage, TRIPLE-check your reading, then do not count that in the series number. Each series string will add something close to 4V to the total.

It definitely COULD be 13S, also COULD be a BMS with an extra Pos wire, since this is a safety issue and you really need to know, and have no other info, break out the DVM.

You could just test total voltage from the output, but depending on how long it has sat, this test might not be definitive.

Knowing how many of the steps add voltage, would be the kind of absolute dependable answer you should have at this point.

Also, sometimes the wire loom is premade for multiple batteries, some wires might not be used, the digital volt meter test gives an absolute answer.

A whole bunch of folks will claim that "48v" means 54.6 with no other options, and this has almost certainly caused some serious problems, as in destroyed batteries, house fires, and even deaths. They are simply wrong, I absolutely know them to be wrong, you can find 12S batteries still sold, they are common. But they will not listen, and their stupidity will hurt people, and I can't hit them with a rock from here.

 

[bobmcc81]

I'm glad I don't live next door

 

[Mesarz]

I'm glad I don't live next door

That's rather rude. Thanks for your knowledgable comment and immense help with my predicament.

 

[bobmcc81]

That's rather rude. Thanks for your knowledgable comment and immense help with my predicament.

That’s a fair call out. I have second hand experience with a tragedy after a lithium battery build accident. I hope you know what you’re doing and you get the outcome you want. It scares the heck out of me but those thoughts and associated comments are not pertinent or helpful in a online discussion

Good luck

 

[ElHegpah]

The comment was not rude. It was an accurate reflection of reality.

This is the SECOND serious danger issue you have had with your bike in a very short time period.

I too am glad I do not live next door.

I am going to recommend you find someone who is a bit more mechanically ept to give some hands-on assistance. I can continue to assist.

 

[Seaguy]

I'm a bit at a loss at what all this fuss is about. I would say, set the Satiator at eighty percent or ninety per cent And if there is a voltage setting make sure it's set to forty eight volts. The rest should be automatic. Am I missing something?

 

[hsdrggr]

The Grin Satiator Charger has several factory installed presets for 48v Li-Ion batteries. I have 2 of these chargers that I use regularly and only for charging 48v 13S configured e-bike batteries. Now, you just have to be sure you have the correct model # charger for 48v, because they make 3 versions. The model number that covers 48v batteries is Model #4808.
Here are the presets. You can also designate one as a Default. But, unless I’m wrong if you don’t set a default the last preset used comes up when the charger is plugged in again. If the presets are not showing up you will have to go into the modify screen and tick mark the profiles you want showing when it’s turned on. If the profiles are not showing when you go to the modify profiles screen, then some how they got deleted. That can be restored if you plug the Satiator into your windows computer and use their software to reset or upgrade firmware.
On factory e-bike batteries I would recommend staying away from the fast charge 7amp profiles. Many e-bike batteries have a 4amp fused circuit between the plug and BMS on the positive side charging lead. The 7amp profile will blow the fuse and you will have to pull the battery apart to replace the fuse. I know from experience. Oops.
I charge at 2amp rates unless I’m hurried. Less Amps = less battery heat. The cooler the batteries run during charging the less deterioration occurs to the cells. I precharge all my batteries with the Satiator’s 48v 80% setting (top off voltage 52.6v) then on the day or night before I ride I top off the battery that I’m using to 100% (top off voltage 54.5v). If you charge e-bike batteries to full voltage, for safety it should be done in an area without combustibles. I routinely charge batteries indoors. But only overnight on 80% SOC settings, and personally monitored when charging to 100% SOC.
The danger is that one or more of the series packs fails and then then whole battery voltage drops 4.2v per bad series pack, and then you try and charge it to 54.6v which will overcharge the remaining cells, overheating them and possibly causing a li- ion runaway ignition event. BAD!!! So it’s a real good idea to note the resting state charge every time you charge an e-bike battery so you can catch when the voltage is less indicating a failing or bad cell series pack.

 

[ElHegpah]

12S batteries are still made, and sold. He could have one.

 

[hsdrggr]

12S batteries are still made, and sold. He could have one.

No, that battery he linked is definitely a 13s battery. I can make a video on how to set up profiles going thru the display menu on the Satiator. I’ll PM him.

 

[ElHegpah]

Please explain is some detail how it is that you are certain enough of this to risk a catastrophic lithium fire in an occupied dwelling.

 

[hsdrggr]

Please explain is some detail how it is that you are certain enough of this to risk a catastrophic lithium fire in an occupied dwelling.

I knew this was coming. It’s pretty easy to go to the mfg website and look it up. Detail is you press several buttons on your phone while in a browser. You should try just a little to research before …….

 

[ElHegpah]

Specs on the CHARGER are not really what I would say seals the deal. Maybe you need some practice in how to copy and paste.

As for research, I am not wasting that much time.

 

[m@Robertson]

12S batteries are still made, and sold. He could have one.

12S batteries for ebike use border on nonexistent in the marketplace. 48v packs are 13S. I've personally never seen a 12S represented as 48v li-ion. An exception would be if the maker is using something other than a Li-NMC 18650/21700 cell. I have seen LFP packs that have oddball charge levels... but key word is oddball. 13S/54.6 = 48v is pretty much a standard.

Please explain is some detail how it is that you are certain enough of this to risk a catastrophic lithium fire in an occupied dwelling.

54.6v on the battery's spec sheet is ironclad. Its a 13S.

To @Mesarz: Here is a resource on battery charge levels. Use it to set different charge levels on your Satiator.

Li-Ion Ebike Battery Charge Charts

Whats an 80% charge on a 48v battery? These charts give answers to questions like this on common ebike battery voltages: 36v, 48v, 52v, 60v and 72v.

talesontwowheels.com

On mine, I have 80 and 90% charges set up at different current levels, depending on whether I want a slow or faster charge. The on-screen interface is a little clunky but its actually easier to use than the PC hookup to the Windows app - once you have familiarized yourself with it. You can ignore most of the settings except voltage level and current level (amps).

the defaults @hsdrggr showed are so high on current level I would absolutely not use them. A 3mm pin plug that is common for an inexpensive battery charge port is not safe above 3a. Your battery does not have such a plug, but its a basic pack that frankly I would never trust to any level of extremes and a 4a charge level is for sure that. Create charge profiles for 0.5a, 1a and 2a at both 80% voltage and 100%.

Delete the Satiator profiles you don't need. Last thing you need is to set the pack for a 100% LFP/LiFePO4 voltage and not realize what you've done.

After you have your charge profiles set up, spend some time with the thing hooked up. After a few minutes hooked up,get a reading on the voltage level onscreen. Come back in an hour and read it again. Now you know how many volts are added in an hour at that current level (I am ignoring the slowdown at the end of the process; no need to worry about that right now). Use your knowledge of how many volts are added per hour to decide how long you want to let the charger be hooked up. Do Not trust the charger or the BMS to stop at a safe spot. They almost always will, but 'almost' is the key word.

Spend $10 on a mechanical countdown timer and plug the charger into it. Set it so power is physically cut off before something bad can happen if the fail-safes of the battery management system and the charger fail for some reason.

Amazon.com

 

[hsdrggr]

Specs on the CHARGER are not really what I would say seals the deal. Maybe you need some practice in how to copy and paste.

As for research, I am not wasting that much time.

Dude, that mfg uses that same battery on several of their models. That is the actual charger the bike comes with. 13s x4.2v = 54.6v. That is what that charger’s cut off is, so it’s definitely a 13s battery. Why would you want to send this guy down a rabbit hole for no reason. And yes it seals the deal.

If you’re going to try and help someone on one of these forum threads intelligently then spend the time to get at least a little informed before answered or don’t answer at all. What actually is a waste of time is what you posted.

 

[ElHegpah]

Well, let's see.

OP did not state that he got a charger with the battery he received.

His link was for the battery ONLY, not with an ebike. There is NO CHARGER indicated on that link as included with the battery. No mention whatsoever. The fact that the OP bought a seperate charger is an interesting piece of data, supporting the idea that no charger was included with the battery from the manufacturer.

Note also that the OP "bought an ebike". Possibly used. Possibly older model. Definitely using a style of mount that has been around for a long time.

He bought an ebike, and ALSO a battery, and ALSO a charger. Three seperate transactions.

NEW ebikes do not usually come with no battery. Used ones frequently do. Especially older ones.

12S, Li-ion batteries are not as common as they once were, but are still sold. They were MUCH more common a few years ago, such as when a used ebike was likely manufactured.

Used, older ebike, old mount style, the ODDS go UP this could be a 12S battery.

Batteries are very often available in multiple configurations.

Specs quoted are for "a" CHARGER, with no specific connection to the OP's battery.

The negative consequences of getting this wrong can be EXTREMELY SERIOUS.

If the consequences of an error are a minor performance issue, or a couple dollars, then being wrong is no big deal. When the stakes are a potentially deadly house fire, something that has definitely happened, people have died, from using the wrong spec charger, then determining with CERTAINTY what exactly you are dealing with, and not just guessing, becomes significantly more important.

I determine CERTAINTY in such situations a LOT more accurately than most people will bother to do.

I am not stating that it is a certainty this is a 12S battery. I AM stating that there is no certainty it is NOT, with very good reasons to assume that it IS, and before creating a serious problem, it is necessary to make DAMN SURE what exactly you are dealing with.

Some are making a LOT of potentially dangerous assumptions, which are NOT justified by the available information.

Do not question my ability to analyze the available data again.

 

[hsdrggr]

Well, let's see.

OP did not state that he got a charger with the battery he received.

His link was for the battery ONLY, not with an ebike. There is NO CHARGER indicated on that link as included with the battery. No mention whatsoever. The fact that the OP bought a seperate charger is an interesting piece of data, supporting the idea that no charger was included with the battery from the manufacturer.

Note also that the OP "bought an ebike". Possibly used. Possibly older model. Definitely using a style of mount that has been around for a long time.

He bought an ebike, and ALSO a battery, and ALSO a charger. Three seperate transactions.

NEW ebikes do not usually come with no battery. Used ones frequently do. Especially older ones.

12S, Li-ion batteries are not as common as they once were, but are still sold. They were MUCH more common a few years ago, such as when a used ebike was likely manufactured.

Used, older ebike, old mount style, the ODDS go UP this could be a 12S battery.

Batteries are very often available in multiple configurations.

Specs quoted are for "a" CHARGER, with no specific connection to the OP's battery.

The negative consequences of getting this wrong can be EXTREMELY SERIOUS.

If the consequences of an error are a minor performance issue, or a couple dollars, then being wrong is no big deal. When the stakes are a potentially deadly house fire, something that has definitely happened, people have died, from using the wrong spec charger, then determining with CERTAINTY what exactly you are dealing with, and not just guessing, becomes significantly more important.

I determine CERTAINTY in such situations a LOT more accurately than most people will bother to do.

I am not stating that it is a certainty this is a 12S battery. I AM stating that there is no certainty it is NOT, with very good reasons to assume that it IS, and before creating a serious problem, it is necessary to make DAMN SURE what exactly you are dealing with.

Some are making a LOT of potentially dangerous assumptions, which are NOT justified by the available information.

Do not question my ability to analyze the available data again.

It certainly is not a 12s battery no matter how much you type. End of story. SMH
You’re not my mother. I’ll question anybody about anything I wish. It’s kinda what we are all here for. To give the OP each of our perspectives. Then he filters out the BS.
You make me chuckle.

 

[ElHegpah]

Spock, the "spec sheet" you are quoting is for a CHARGER, which is sold by the same company that supplied the OP's battery, but did NOT come with the OP's battery. Safe bet this company offers more than one type of battery. The specs for my charger do not likely match his battery, either.

The OP did not buy his bike from the company that makes the battery. He may have ordered an older config battery to match his older bike, which he bought with no battery.

These parts are not connected in any way, and the specs on one have no bearing on the specs for the other components.

If OP would complete the test I suggested, I would agree to be financially responsible for the results if the actual usage indicated a different battery type than the definitive test I recommended.

Either one of you two willing to undertake the liability based solely on the currently available information? Pass your insurance information to Anton.