E-bikes and climbing

[highroad 2]

I have owned a 2017 Haibike Xduro Allmtn 7.0 for several months.
I ride moto trails that often have climbs that are short, steep, rutted and rooted.
I struggle with the Haibike because the front end gets very light and the steering is vague.
If I lower the seat post the climbing improves some.
I tried going from a 50 mm steering stem to a 110 mm stem to get weight forward with little if any improvement.
I was told that Enduro bikes do not climb well due to the slack steering angle.

I demo'd a Turbo Levo Comp on the same trails and the troublesome climbs on the Haibike were a none issue.
Night and Day difference in climbing.
The Levo has 66.5 degrees head tube angle and the Haibike 67degrees.
The Levo must be lower to the ground because of way too many annoying pedal strikes in comparison to the Haibike.
The top of the head tube on the Levo is 3 inches lower on the Levo.
The assist power on both bikes are equal.
I prefer the added suspension travel of the Haibike.
It is hard to believe that 1/2 degree more slack steering angle can make the difference.
Or is it the dynamics of the small front cog and idler cog that the Bosch/Haibike has?
Rear suspension design?
On steep climbs it feels like the Levo keeps he front wheel planted.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Highroad

 

[cmg]

seating position? bring sattle forward, might help get more weight forward,
are using a set back seat post, if so try a straight post
can you lower the handlebar?, ie take some spacers out from underneath

about vague steering, hows your tyre pressure? try lowering it to get more ground contact or don't stuff around and buy the Levo!

 

[BIke N Gear]

This is probably the answer.

"The top of the head tube on the Levo is 3 inches lower on the Levo."

 

[Butch]

Levo probably has less fork travel. The Haibike also probably has more seat tube angle.

 

[Giant Warp]

My wife has a medium Levo and I have an XL. The medium has a completely different feel. The medium is more responsive and feels 10 lbs lighter than the XL. However, the XL is way better for climbing and you can pretty much ride in a normal position while climbing. I think my XL is like 12 inches longer than my regular mountain bike. Suspension settings are critical to lessen the pedal strikes. If you have a really long bike and low air in the suspension then the bottom bracket height will be extra low when articulating. I've pushed the Levo to maximum climbing angle many times. You end up having to stop when the rear wheel starts slipping. It's not like a motorcycle and you can just churn your way up the hill. When riding on cross camber slopes on slick rock you really have to be careful of the pedal strikes (where again the air pressure in the suspension comes into play).

I find it interesting how that when the dirt washes away on a trail and leaves loose rock that the regular mountain bike riders keep moving the trail to the dirt and grass because they don't want to ride on the loose rock. The 27.5s on the Levo float right over that stuff. The drawback is the balloon tires can't really hold at speed on loose corners. This kinda disproves this massive speed that I keep hearing about on ebikes. If you lower the tire pressure the 27.5s are too flexy and you get rock dings on the rim, or worse, pinch flats.

 

[Barryboy]

Your mtb has a 37" wheelbase? Wow, it must be nimble

 

[zooey]

Can't put it down to any specific geo figure or component. Without doing repeated tests on it scientifically, to even try to isolate the effect, can only speculate. It could be because the Levo had better tires that were properly inflated...

 

[highroad 2]

Thanks for all the suggestions to help sort out my climb issue including replacing the
Haibike with a Levo.
The Haibike (150 mm) has 10 mm more suspension travel F and Rear than the Levo (140 mm) is the reason I went that direction.
Looking back it was a silly reason or maybe not.
I realize set up has a lot to do with how a bike performs.
Coming from 50 plus years of motos I like plush feeling suspension since I never have or ever will launch over "10 school buses".
This is my first Mt. Bike.
With only an hours ride on the Levo, I prefer the suspension and cornering of the Haibike.
The sag on the Levo was set up for a rider 20 pounds lighter than myself.
Both the Haibike and Levo are large sized and both have the same size 27.5 x 3.00 tire size.
Pedal strikes were a problem on the Levo and others have compained about the same online.
The Haibike came with a dropper post and it is offset to the rear.
I could possibly rotate the dropper post so it moves the seat forward considerably.

At what point does moving the seat forward mess with the pedaling geometry designed into the bike?

It was mentioned that the Haibike may have a steeper seat post angle which could account for why climbing improves slightly when i drop the seat before technical climbs for better results but still not as good as a out of the box Levo.
I run 10 pounds air pressure on the Haibike and the Levo had 20 as required by the Demo shop owner to prevent bent wheels.
Less tire pressure should get better traction.

My next move is to lower the handle bars by moving the spacers to the top of the stem and reversing the 110 mm stem so it points 8 degrees down instead of up.
The Haibike handle bars will still be about 1-1/2 inches higher than the Levo.

It still baffles me that I have never ridden a Levo off road before, immediately went to the climbs that the Haibike struggled with and cleaned the climbs like riding on flat ground. I went back and rode the climbs again with the same results.

Hopefully the new model year Levo's will have more suspension travel and still climb well, or maybe only 10 mm more fork travel makes for poor climbing.

More thoughts?
Thanks
Highroad

 

[syl3]

haibike have a very conservative geometry because their customers are mostly in germany, a country with rather tame inclines for the most part. try haibike's sister brand, the lapierre overvolt, you will love it. you could also put a dual position rockshox pike on your xduroAM and lower the fork when going up

 

[Butch]

Go to a bike shop and get a fitment or google up proper bike fitment. It's obvious if your front end is light on steep climbs, you bike and/or you are weight bias to the rear. All the traction in the world isn't going to change this. If it bothers you that much, slam seat forward and buy a longer stem.

 

[highroad 2]

I am learning form your responces.
I had no idea that dual position forks existed and the Rockshox Pike makes a good $1100 option to lower the front end.

Are Lapierres readily available on the west coast?
I have learned from this thread that a test ride on the terrain you plan to ride on is required to make a informed purchase.
Since the Haibike was my first serious mountain bike I would not have had any experience to compare its climbing to.

I already switched from a 50 mm to 110mm stem.
I will try moving the seat forward.

Thanks for the advice

 

[highroad 2]

I am embarrassed to admit why my Haibike did not climb well.
And thanks for all your suggestions.
I demo'd a Turbo Levo and was impressed with how well it climbed the same sections of the trail that I struggled with on my Haibike.
I was disappointed with how often I had pedal strikes with the TLevo in comparison to the Haibike which seldom had strikes.
That should have been my clue.
Even though the bike seemed to ride well in the rough I had no sag on the front forks and way too much on the rear shock.
This is my first mountain bike and had no previous experience to compare with.
The bike was riding front high and getting the sag set properly made a huge positive climbing improvement.
I now need to learn how to mitigate pedal strikes which are going to happen on rough terrain.
Thanks again
Highroad