e-bike purchasing advice - 1000watt middrive < 3” tires

[bpmcallorum]

I am looking for the closest thing to an undercover e-scooter available; meaning you don’t really have to pedal at all.

1000 watt mid-drive motor. No limiters.

Twist throttle. Strong battery.

I can’t really see why I would not put a Bafang 1000 watt motor kit on a commuter bike and hide the battery in a back rack bag???

Bafang’s 1000 watt kit is $1k and a used commuter bike is $500-1k. I’m assuming other people don’t go that route because they are not mechanically inclined??? $1,500-2k tops.

The price difference between adding a motor to a used bike and buying a new pre-built 1000 watt bike is like $1-4k of “magical markup”.

That said….

I’m currently looking at the $3k Dost Drop Chain. That’s the best I’ve found so far. They say they ship in a week or so! You can set it to a Class 3 mode so there is no speed limiting.

Downsides are….the Dost only has a 750 watt motor….it has a lever throttle instead of twist, and it looks like what a thief would steal. I’ve had 2 much less attractive bikes stolen already. That aside, it seems like it would be a good bike for me.

The Biktrix Juggernaut is interesting to me at $4k. It looks like it would attract both police and thieves alike though. I don’t like the big tires.

Maybe the Magnum Scout? Other Magnums?

I’ve looked at bikes like the Frey which has great specs but is extremely hard to get.

I used to think the Sondors LX was what I wanted until I found out they limit the speed electronically.

Wattwagon looks great but really pricey. $7k.

Same with the FLX Blade 2.0. $7

I find the fat tire thing annoying. 4” tires on every bike with a 1000 watt motor is ridiculous. It’s like putting up a sign that says you have a big motor for police and thieves.

I’m well aware of the laws and regulations..thank you.

In terms of buying a bike that visually looks “similar” to a “normal” commuter bike…but with a 1000 watt mid drive motor. What do you recommend? Under $4000.

 

[Deleted member 4845]

Sure you want mid-drive? You into replacing chains and gearsets fairly frequently? Rear hub hides under disk brake pretty well. DIY conversion looks like a less valuable item to steal. Also can go much higher power than 1000 watt without frequent parts replacement.

Most kits have no speed limiters at all, or can be easily eliminated. No proprietary parts, use different and easily, and inexpensively available, controllers, displays, batteries, throttles, pedal sensors, etc.

Donor bike is actually best as a CHEAP bike. They use steel, which will bend before it breaks, as opposed to carbon or aluminum, which are more rigid and also more brittle. They just snap.

With the motor, shaving a few ounces of weight is no longer important.

 

[bpmcallorum]

Thank you for writing, Nelson.

——

After I wrote that original post, I found the RIZE RX which basically answered everything I was looking for.

$3,200, 1000 watt mid-drive, throttle, with 2.3" tires.

I was just embarrassed to answer my own question online…like I’m talking to myself.

———

To answer your 2 questions: No, I'm not sure. I'm curious how often I will have to replace those parts you mentioned.

It's my daily commuter to work 10 miles away, and my only transportation.

How often do you think I will have to replace those parts?

——————

I’ve been car-less & bike-only for 15 years or more. Muscle-powered bike, that is.

Currently I think I replace them every few years, up to 5 years? idk. I suppose I could handle replacing those (chain, front and back cassette) maybe 2 to 3 times a year before I would say it is an unintelligent system. I definitely want to hear who makes the strongest chains and cassettes.

I'm interested in going mid-drive because it seems to me to be the more efficient use of power to use a motor with 9 gears instead of a motor with one gear.

I’m thinking I would kinda “motorcycle up" my current very-used-looking Specialized Sirrus Sport daily commuter bike. And motorcycles use gears. I’m used to riding geared motorcycles.

As far as e-bikes. My only experience is in renting cheap hub motor rental e-bikes on a public bike trail. I’ve never rode a mid-drive e-bike with a throttle. Sounds fun tho.

I have not seen any mid-drives with throttles, just pedal assist mid-drives, at the bike shops around me. I understand that your “average person” would not understand how to correctly drive and gear a mid-drive with a throttle. Even people who drive stick shift cars would have a learning curve. Motorcycle people would say…”oh…so…just like a motorcycle.” I’m sure many could gear and throttle correctly on their first ride.

————————

"DIY conversion looks like a less valuable item to steal"....that's where my head is too..Nelson. I'm just going to mod up my current bike.

Shiny paint…big fat tires…a big battery showing…a huge custom frame….those are all like sirens for both police and thieves to come running to you.

My plan is to put a 1000 watt bafang motor on my Specialized Sirrus Sport Small frame.

Add a back rack carrier and a metal basket and put a 52V 19AH battery in there.

Add a full twist throttle on the right side.

Add a twist shifter for the rear cassette on the left side.

Add hydraulic brakes

Add 50c tires

Drive it and shift it like an old motorcycle.

Wish me luck.

———

I am going to try and convince one of my close friends to let me install a hub motor on her bike. Free labor if she buys it. So I will have an e-bike riding buddy.
———

It is tempting to just install a rear hub motor with some kick…a 1000w or 1200w..instead of the “complexity” of the mid-drive.

I would have to give people a training session on how to drive my throttled mid-drive bike before they borrow it...fortunately that’s the last thing I care about.

—————

I guess you would say…If it is a powerful enough hub motor than it makes needing gearing unnecessary. That is probably true. I’m curious to find out.

Maybe you would also say…a bike with a rear hub motor is not chewing away at the chain with the motor and so the whole thing would last longer. That is definitely true. But doesn’t mean I still would not prefer using the motor with the gears.

I generally have to learn everything the hard way, so I appreciate you not being shy about giving your opinion…that you would go with a hub motor.

I find it hard to imagine a rear hub motor plus a cassette fitting on my bike back there. ??

Truthfully, I have not fully decided yet, so again, thank you for helping me make decisions.

In terms of new bikes, the 750w rear hub bikes are the best bang for the buck of everything available now. So many good ones at $1,600 new…delivered in a week.

Similar mid-drives are twice that.

-------------

How has your e-biking experience gone, Nelson?

 

[Deleted member 4845]

Replacement times seem to run between 1000 and 3000 miles. There is exactly ONE IGH manufacturer, Rohloff, which has ONE model (or series) which does not void the warranty if running a mid-drive thru the gears. Cost around $1,500.

I am no longer a strong pedaler, have only a couple significant hills, a fairly weak 350W motor, and I have not shifted gears in 8 years. NOT ONE TIME. The idea, the concept of driving thru the gears is VERY attractive and SEEMS like a good idea, BUT, HUUUGE but, the extra maintenance just does not justify it, ESPECIALLY when you just do not need it.

If you do not have major hills, that you cannot pedal over in less than 5-10 minutes, then IMO you simply do not need the hassle. Also note the various "motor pause for gear shift" controls, these are considered essential and not having one will dramatically reduce those replacement times mentioned earlier.

If you DO have such hills, then a little more care in choosing a hub motor, mainly more power than I choose, solves that problem easily.

I choose a geared hub, as they coast easily and I was terrified of having to pedal a heavy bike, with the drag of a DD hub, the last several miles home with a dead battery. This has NEVER happened. I did a LOT of research before choosing my hub.

A direct drive hub has no internal moving parts. They are heavier, also more powerful, and as long as you do not overheat it, will last nearly forever. There are multiple add-on, simple cooling techniques and systems to deal with overheating.

The rule is to stay above 50% of top speed, and do not drop below this under power for more than a minute or two.

Something else to look for on factory bikes is replacement parts. Some are very expensive, some are simply not available. Many require you to use their specific controller, motor, and battery, NO repeat NO other brands or makers will work, AT ALL. If you don't like the cost of the replacement part for your factory bike, you have an easy decision - don't ride the bike anymore.

You do need to check dropout width, but they do fit. As far as the rear cassette - The BY FAR majority opinion, which I agree with, is that you simply do not need gearing anymore with a hub motor. Most use a single gear, with maybe a chain tensioner. Remove rear shifter, and cassette, remove cables and control from handlebar, use front chainset only.

I started biking about the same time you did, maybe 16 years ago, sole transport. Electrified about 8 years ago. I have no standard commute, but repeat trips of 20-30 miles are common.

Look at commercial mid-drives - First, many companies tried and abandoned it, currently few if any over 500 watts, custom frames, custom motors, battery, motor, and controller proprietary and not interchangeable with ANY other brand, company makes a new model and discontinues yours, you are SCREWED.

i have replaced my battery with a generic one, plug and play, my motor is still being made, my contoller is still being made and several compatible ones are available. Very inexpensively.

Mid-drives are all the rage, mainly because of marketing and, frankly, ignorance. Most folks just do not need the hassle. Also, they are almost exclusively sold to, um, "upscale buyers", who are more concerned with looking hip and cool than actually having a reliable piece of transport. My bike don't work, I don't eat. Reliability is important.

 

[bpmcallorum]

Thank you Nelson.

You have me thinking of dumping my back gears plus shifter plus wires and putting a really strong hub motor back there.

Replacement at 1000 miles would be like almost every month for me. I find it hard to believe that people are buying bikes like that RIZE RX or the DOST DROP for over $3000 and then replacing their entire gearing system every couple months. Is that really happening? Even every 3-6 months sounds surprising. I’m wondering if you are describing people who do not drive and shift properly. Those gear change sensors and torque sensing crap…all you have to do is down throttle before shifting like on a motorcycle. IOW be in-touch with how you are treating your chain. Same goes on a normal non-powered bike.

As long as the hub motor lasts and is strong enough to quickly get me to 30 miles an hour..I can see how it is tempting to remove the chain and back cassette from being chewed on.

Hell, I would take EVERYTHING off and replace the pedals with pegs if I didn’t care about being camouflaged as a bicycle.

I find it a little odd to have mismatched wheels. Meaning whatever wheel the hub motor makers build their hub into on the back and some other random wheel up front. I was thinking of going tubeless for both (as in a matching pair of wheels)…not sure I can do that with whatever wheel the e-hub makers use.

When I see a hub motor for sale that is not built into a wheel I think “What in the world do you do with that?”

So what is a good hub motor kit with battery you like?

I’m currently just looking at the online Bafang retailers websites and all the random Chinese stuff on Amazon.

Bafang Motor eBike Store-BAFANG Authorized Dealer

Bafang Motor eBike Store-BAFANG Authorized Dealer

e-bikeconversionkit.com

I’ve read the newer Bafang mid-drive motor M625 only works with Bafang batteries. I don’t know if that’s true for their hub drives.

I do think in the future ALL controllers will keep you from going over 28 miles an hour. The Government LOVES to control us…and keep ANY kind of power out of our hands.

I certainly don’t understand all the systems on Amazon, many use the term “Universal” as if all those random manufacturers work together…I highly doubt it.

Honestly I would be happy with getting rid of the display controller and just running the motor off a throttle….no complex computer controlled pedal assist, other than throttling while pedaling. I emailed Bafang and they said their system requires the display. I see twist throttles online for “Universal” systems whatever that is idk?? Some with very small built-in displays for speed.

Everytime I see someone going through a hundred menu items on a color display I think…it could be as simple as the more you press the throttle the more it goes…zero display zero menu items…zero complexity.

Thank you again for writing, Nelson.

 

[HumanPerson]

I've had a 1500w Voilamart rear hub drive kit on a walmart schwinn bike since the beginning of 2018
with no problems. Not sure actually how many miles i have on it besides it's well over 1000 miles so far.

Now my Hub drive doest not do as good on the hills as my mid drive bbshd does. Nelson is right though,
the mid drives will eat chains and cassettes.

Now my honest opionion is this, if my ride planned has no hills, then i ride the hub drive...given the right battery and controller
the hub drive just keeps unwinding like a washing machine LOL

On the hub drive i have a 60V 45AH battery combined with a KT controller...again....no problems in over 1000 miles on
that build.

My LunaCycle BBSHD mid drive i use for hilly commutes and let me tell you, it's day and night between the two on hills.
This one has a 60v 50ah battery with the eggriderv2 display which allows you access to the controller settings. (huge plus there)

I hope this helps a bit.

Ride Safe!


HP

 

[bpmcallorum]

I've had a 1500w Voilamart rear hub drive kit on a walmart schwinn bike since the beginning of 2018
with no problems. Not sure actually how many miles i have on it besides it's well over 1000 miles so far.

Now my Hub drive doest not do as good on the hills as my mid drive bbshd does. Nelson is right though,
the mid drives will eat chains and cassettes.

Now my honest opionion is this, if my ride planned has no hills, then i ride the hub drive...given the right battery and controller
the hub drive just keeps unwinding like a washing machine LOL

On the hub drive i have a 60V 45AH battery combined with a KT controller...again....no problems in over 1000 miles on
that build.

My LunaCycle BBSHD mid drive i use for hilly commutes and let me tell you, it's day and night between the two on hills.
This one has a 60v 50ah battery with the eggriderv2 display which allows you access to the controller settings. (huge plus there)

I hope this helps a bit.

Ride Safe!


HP

Thank you HumanPerson. I have some family and friends that are HumanPersons as well.

You guys are doing a good job of convincing me to do a hub motor for my first build and daily commuter bike. It’s prolly inevitable that I do a mid-drive build at some point tho.

Amazon has a Ebikeling 1500 watt for $460 and a Unitpack 52v20Ah battery for $430. One reviewer said he gets up to 48mph on flat ground with the 1500w motor. That’s plenty to get me to work.

I’ve never even come across a 60v50Ah battery. Did Lunacycle put that on there for you? Those look like great bikes. I’ve been looking at them for a year and they have said they are sold out for a year.

Thank you again.

 

[Deleted member 4845]

Other than his choice of vendor, I agree with what Human said above. Would be good to know how many miles and years on the BBSHD.

There are hills, and then there are Hills, some can be avoided, others not, pedaling amount you are comfortable with, time involved. There are always trade offs.

For me, I have few hills, none huge, one kinda steep, but a two-minute climb with no motor, and much younger. The higher breakage rate, increased maintenance, more complex install, and higher cost of the mid-drive just were not justified.

Overheat times for motors vary a quite a bit, the 1-2 minutes I mentioned is for small geared hubs like mine, the larger heavier DD drives can be more like 5-7 minutes, and that can be greatly extended.

There are also a few well-made geared hubs that can be an in-between choice, but the solid reliability of the DD units is just excellent.
The trade-off is weight and a bit of drag when coasting power off. Geared hubs are smaller, lighter, no drag when coasting, but have gears to break. Mine has well over 20,000 miles with no problems, but that is above average for most. Replacement gears are cheap, order an extra set with the motor, do not pay shipping a second time.

Funny OP mentioned small rear wheels, this is the trick to make a DD a great hill climber. Just feed it more volts, and they will suck some amps when climbing major hills, and some steps need to be taken to compensate for the heat, but they will climb walls. The small wheel acts just like a hill-climbing gear, the higher volts compensates when speed is needed

Speed - 28 MPH is a legal max many places for a bicycle, which needs functional pedals and chain. Some places 28 MPH is pedelec only, throttle no more than 20. Do you NEED 30 mph? Not is it cool, is it fun, but do you want to be doing 30 on your roads and traffic conditions? On a BICYCLE, on a regular basis? I decided I did not, and was concerned a 20 MPH maximum might be regulated, I just wanted a bit faster, a LOT easier, and not much heavier than my existing bike.

Forgot to ask how much you weigh, this is a significant factor, also can you charge at work, to use a lighter battery if desired, also do you need to lift the bike at all or frequently.

If the mounting points, or dropouts, for your wheels are carbon or aluminum or anything but steel, you will need some reinforcement for these areas as you get into higher wattage motors. The axel is trying to spin itself out of the mount. Then there is regen braking.

Note that hub motors come in different windings, or turn counts, basically speed at a given voltage. Roughly, a given motor in a given wheel does 20 mph at 40 volt, does 30 mph at 60V, in a vacuum with oil, so more like 28. So when you buy BrandX motor, in a 26" wheel, with a particular turn count, with a particular battery, it does a given speed. You can get a low speed motor that climbs better or a high speed motor that goes faster. The fun part is they give you KV, or else rpm. usually for a 36V battery and you have to do some math or find a motor simulator to get the actual speed.

Spend some time selecting desired speed, climbing ability needed, wheel size, load carried - THIS IS THE KEY to having a good hub motor experience. This is the trade-off for NOT driving thru the gears.

Also, there are LOTS of battery makers and quality varies DRAMATICALLY. 72V packs are fairly common.

 

[bpmcallorum]

Other than his choice of vendor, I agree with what Human said above. Would be good to know how many miles and years on the BBSHD.

There are hills, and then there are Hills, some can be avoided, others not, pedaling amount you are comfortable with, time involved. There are always trade offs.

For me, I have few hills, none huge, one kinda steep, but a two-minute climb with no motor, and much younger. The higher breakage rate, increased maintenance, more complex install, and higher cost of the mid-drive just were not justified.

Overheat times for motors vary a quite a bit, the 1-2 minutes I mentioned is for small geared hubs like mine, the larger heavier DD drives can be more like 5-7 minutes, and that can be greatly extended.

There are also a few well-made geared hubs that can be an in-between choice, but the solid reliability of the DD units is just excellent.
The trade-off is weight and a bit of drag when coasting power off. Geared hubs are smaller, lighter, no drag when coasting, but have gears to break. Mine has well over 20,000 miles with no problems, but that is above average for most. Replacement gears are cheap, order an extra set with the motor, do not pay shipping a second time.

Funny OP mentioned small rear wheels, this is the trick to make a DD a great hill climber. Just feed it more volts, and they will suck some amps when climbing major hills, and some steps need to be taken to compensate for the heat, but they will climb walls. The small wheel acts just like a hill-climbing gear, the higher volts compensates when speed is needed

Speed - 28 MPH is a legal max many places for a bicycle, which needs functional pedals and chain. Some places 28 MPH is pedelec only, throttle no more than 20. Do you NEED 30 mph? Not is it cool, is it fun, but do you want to be doing 30 on your roads and traffic conditions? On a BICYCLE, on a regular basis? I decided I did not, and was concerned a 20 MPH maximum might be regulated, I just wanted a bit faster, a LOT easier, and not much heavier than my existing bike.

Forgot to ask how much you weigh, this is a significant factor, also can you charge at work, to use a lighter battery if desired, also do you need to lift the bike at all or frequently.

If the mounting points, or dropouts, for your wheels are carbon or aluminum or anything but steel, you will need some reinforcement for these areas as you get into higher wattage motors. The axel is trying to spin itself out of the mount. Then there is regen braking.

Note that hub motors come in different windings, or turn counts, basically speed at a given voltage. Roughly, a given motor in a given wheel does 20 mph at 40 volt, does 30 mph at 60V, in a vacuum with oil, so more like 28. So when you buy BrandX motor, in a 26" wheel, with a particular turn count, with a particular battery, it does a given speed. You can get a low speed motor that climbs better or a high speed motor that goes faster. The fun part is they give you KV, or else rpm. usually for a 36V battery and you have to do some math or find a motor simulator to get the actual speed.

Spend some time selecting desired speed, climbing ability needed, wheel size, load carried - THIS IS THE KEY to having a good hub motor experience. This is the trade-off for NOT driving thru the gears.

Also, there are LOTS of battery makers and quality varies DRAMATICALLY. 72V packs are fairly common.

Yesterday I learned I can’t add disc brakes to my bike.

Sirrus Sport

Combining the heart of the world's best road bikes with a flat-bar, urban-friendly form, Sirrus Sport redefines the notion of versatility. 9-speed Shima...

www.specialized.com

Add that to you saying you think it should be steel (never heard that before) and the fact that it has zero shocks. I’m feeling like my current Specialized Sirius Sport Small sized frame isn’t the right frame for my build…especially because of the brakes. On top of that I would need new tires and my front wheel could stand replacement from age and wear.

So I’m back to trying to find a new bike to electrify.

I thought for a second I wanted a mountain bike, meaning rear shocks and 26” tires. But I’m noticing that the rear rack battery sets I want don’t mount on the seat stem but rather the sides of the rear downtube…which I’m only seeing on 700c bikes.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09PDRJTDG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_JK3PWPSF5MM66W6EAAPH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I’m seeing a few disc brakes bikes on craigslist but they all seem to be made of aluminum.

BICYCLE MOUNTAIN TREK 6000 DISC BRAKE - bicycles - by owner - bike...

TREK 6000. new – Practically still brand new. with minimal wear respective likely to have been used on occasion. trek mountain bike, like new, no scratches o dents, front suspension, disc brake, in...

atlanta.craigslist.org

Gt mountain bike - bicycles - by owner - bike sale

Gt mountain bike 8x3 speed shimano com new tire and pair extra all terrain size m

atlanta.craigslist.org

Diamondback lnsight 2 Hybrid Bicycle - bicycles - by owner - bike sale

Like new 18" aluminum frame Diamondback lnsight 2 bicycle (Suggested rider 5'7" to 5'10"). 21 (3 x 7) speed, 700c quick release wheels set and like new tires. Components are all Shimano Altus and...

atlanta.craigslist.org

I weight 180 btw 5’5” and I carry a 30lb Bose speaker with me to lead water aerobics classes all over the city.

I plan on putting my speaker bag in a metal cage on top of the back battery rack…so battery on bottom cage on top.

...dirty panniers on both sides helping camouflage the hub motor…hanging from the bar right above the battery so camouflaging the battery as well.

So that’s the stage I’m at.

Tryna find a steel frame bike with disc brakes. Size small 16”. Under $900.

That I can mount a rear rack like this battery to.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09PDRJTDG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_JK3PWPSF5MM66W6EAAPH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

This photo I’m “attaching” is from a Facebook group I’m in. Maybe this guy will help me?

It’s not my bike.

It’s what I’m trying to build.

He put a similar battery rack on a mountain bike so apparently I’m wrong about the rack mount on a mountain bike. On the mountain bikes I see for sale I don’t see any screw holes on the rear down tube for rack mounts.

Thank you again for your help.

 

[HumanPerson]

Thank you HumanPerson. I have some family and friends that are HumanPersons as well.

You guys are doing a good job of convincing me to do a hub motor for my first build and daily commuter bike. It’s prolly inevitable that I do a mid-drive build at some point tho.

Amazon has a Ebikeling 1500 watt for $460 and a Unitpack 52v20Ah battery for $430. One reviewer said he gets up to 48mph on flat ground with the 1500w motor. That’s plenty to get me to work.

I’ve never even come across a 60v50Ah battery. Did Lunacycle put that on there for you? Those look like great bikes. I’ve been looking at them for a year and they have said they are sold out for a year.

Thank you again.

Nah Luna didnt make it i got it from BTRpower batteries. it's a big battery i'll link ya here: https://www.ebay.com/str/imotorbatt...55-0&campid=5336728181&customid=&toolid=10001

Just note, their batteries are heavy.

Ride Safe

HP

 

[HumanPerson]

Mounting kit for downtube batteries on bikes with no bottle cage bolt holes: https://www.ebay.com/itm/265102437259?hash=item3db9562b8b:g:g8AAAOSwAVlgXjsc

 

[Deleted member 4845]

Not too many racks will carry that type of load, depending on battery you are well over 40 lbs. The load bearing part of the mount is down at the axle, the connection up by the seat stays is just to keep it from rotating towards the rear. Couple Zip ties can substitute.

Ideally, mount the battery in the frame, either bottle mount, triangle battery, or Kluge one up with wallboard, duct tape, string and tennis balls to put a square battery in a triangular hole. Better balance on the bike, which you only notice at standstill or low speed, also gets the weight off the rack and the battery is somewhat more protected.

Also, at 30mph shocks and disk brakes are pretty much mandatory. At 20mph, not so much.

Steel bikes are found at Walmart in an amazing variety, Real point of concern is the axle mounts where your hub motor will go. These need to be steel for any type of hub mount. If your current bike had steel forks, you could easily have disk brake mounts welded to it. If the motor is a bit too wide, with steel forks or a steel rear triangle you can just bend it a bit wider. If the bike hits a tree at 30mph, a steel frame is more likely to absorb the impact without major damage. Aluminum does none of these things, it is just very lightweight, which, with a motor, you no longer care about.
Also, the aluminum axle mounts have a tendency to just snap off, because it is more brittle, and the dropout is where ALL the motor torque is contained, yet was not AT ALL designed with this in mind.

 

[bpmcallorum]

I've had a 1500w Voilamart rear hub drive kit on a walmart schwinn bike since the beginning of 2018
with no problems. Not sure actually how many miles i have on it besides it's well over 1000 miles so far.

Now my Hub drive doest not do as good on the hills as my mid drive bbshd does. Nelson is right though,
the mid drives will eat chains and cassettes.

Now my honest opionion is this, if my ride planned has no hills, then i ride the hub drive...given the right battery and controller
the hub drive just keeps unwinding like a washing machine LOL

On the hub drive i have a 60V 45AH battery combined with a KT controller...again....no problems in over 1000 miles on
that build.

My LunaCycle BBSHD mid drive i use for hilly commutes and let me tell you, it's day and night between the two on hills.
This one has a 60v 50ah battery with the eggriderv2 display which allows you access to the controller settings. (huge plus there)

I hope this helps a bit.

Ride Safe!


HP

What do you think of this frame as a start?

Amazon is selling this steel frame “like-new” used for $152!!

The reviews are horrible. Ha. There is so much I will be changing all I really care about is the frame.

26 Inch Mountain Bikes, 21 Speed Suspension Fork MTB, High-Tensile Carbon Steel Frame Mountain Bicycle with Dual Disc Brake for Men and Women

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QN59WG7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_FAVTWENT3Q9AZ852038G?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I've had a 1500w Voilamart rear hub drive kit on a walmart schwinn bike since the beginning of 2018
with no problems. Not sure actually how many miles i have on it besides it's well over 1000 miles so far.

Now my Hub drive doest not do as good on the hills as my mid drive bbshd does. Nelson is right though,
the mid drives will eat chains and cassettes.

Now my honest opionion is this, if my ride planned has no hills, then i ride the hub drive...given the right battery and controller
the hub drive just keeps unwinding like a washing machine LOL

On the hub drive i have a 60V 45AH battery combined with a KT controller...again....no problems in over 1000 miles on
that build.

My LunaCycle BBSHD mid drive i use for hilly commutes and let me tell you, it's day and night between the two on hills.
This one has a 60v 50ah battery with the eggriderv2 display which allows you access to the controller settings. (huge plus there)

I hope this helps a bit.

Ride Safe!


HP

Okay I bought a bike!

It is a $152 used “like-new” bike from Amazon.

The new version is $269.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QN59WG7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_WRPKD3WHCR4A17W7KCCH

It’s steel with 26” wheels and has disc brakes.

The reviews are horrible!!!!

I admit I am ordering it out of curiosity.

If only the frame works I will be happy.

I’m interested in going down to single gear and dumping the shifters.

I’ll prolly upgrade the brakes to hydraulic.

I’m thinking of getting this Voilamart 1500 watt
hub…

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08B5PQV76/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_MZVQCNA2FCD8GN07JVXD?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Where do you put those big batteries on your bikes?

 

[HumanPerson]

I have a Large Moosetreks mid frame bag that i use to house the battery: https://www.amazon.com/Road-Touring...ds=moosetreks+frame+bag&qid=1647691310&sr=8-2

 

[Deleted member 4845]

Frame triangle is best place, that looks like a nice bag.

Had to laugh at the "Near Custom Fit".

 

[bpmcallorum]

Not too many racks will carry that type of load, depending on battery you are well over 40 lbs. The load bearing part of the mount is down at the axle, the connection up by the seat stays is just to keep it from rotating towards the rear. Couple Zip ties can substitute.

Ideally, mount the battery in the frame, either bottle mount, triangle battery, or Kluge one up with wallboard, duct tape, string and tennis balls to put a square battery in a triangular hole. Better balance on the bike, which you only notice at standstill or low speed, also gets the weight off the rack and the battery is somewhat more protected.

Also, at 30mph shocks and disk brakes are pretty much mandatory. At 20mph, not so much.

Steel bikes are found at Walmart in an amazing variety, Real point of concern is the axle mounts where your hub motor will go. These need to be steel for any type of hub mount. If your current bike had steel forks, you could easily have disk brake mounts welded to it. If the motor is a bit too wide, with steel forks or a steel rear triangle you can just bend it a bit wider. If the bike hits a tree at 30mph, a steel frame is more likely to absorb the impact without major damage. Aluminum does none of these things, it is just very lightweight, which, with a motor, you no longer care about.
Also, the aluminum axle mounts have a tendency to just snap off, because it is more brittle, and the dropout is where ALL the motor torque is contained, yet was not AT ALL designed with this in mind.

You think I should still use these torque arms with a carbon steel bike, 1500 watt rear hub motor?

Grin Technologies Universal REAR Ebike Torque Arm, Thick 1/4 inch Stainless Steel. Protects Ebikes from Axle Spinout https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K60C67...t_i_8Y82J1J5DVPPDG7XS11X?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I ordered a really cheap “High Carbon Steel Frame” bike.

26 Inch Mountain Bikes, 21 Speed Suspension Fork MTB, High-Tensile Carbon Steel Frame Mountain Bicycle with Dual Disc Brake for Men and Women https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QN59WG7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_WNQVNYCXRZSC5NMMYJJE

I assume the risk with the carbon added is that it would just snap in half?

I see some people saying to put those torque arms on both sides for a 1500 watt.

That brand is not cheap. $42 EACH!

That’s $84 for a pair!!

compared to $9 generic 3-5mm thick torque arms.

ebikeling Universal Torque Arm for Electric Bicycle e-Bike Bike Front or Rear Hub Motors and Mid Drive e-Bike https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C7J1ZD7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_7BEDCXGTXWC1NP5AVPGC

I’m hoping I can just go with the unbranded 3-5mm arms in combination with my carbon steel frame? But whatever is best to do.

 

[Deleted member 4845]

If you were to hold both torque arms in your hand, which I have, there is ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION which item is better built and designed to help keep your wheel from falling off.

How close to you typically get to autos going at high rates of speed, and how much desire do you have to be on a crashing ebike careening out of control into the path of those vehicles?

Still aiming for 30 mph? GET THE GOOD ONES. OK with 20mph? SAME FRIGGING ANSWER.

Pretty much anything at or over 1000W.

Do you need two? Well, it depends on how much you want to keep all your arms and legs at their current level of functionality, and how much you enjoy facial reconstruction surgery. This is some of the cheapest insurance you will ever buy.

I have snapped off a rear dropout under pedal power alone. As for front dropouts, I used to own a Lambert. Google "death-fork bike".

 

[Deleted member 4845]

You mentioned single gear. Recommend keep the front shifter, lose the rear. May need a chain tensioner.

Also, rear hub does NOT, usually come with gears, White Industries 12-trooth freewheel generally used. Need to check if your hub has screw-on or cassette mounting for gears. Screw-on narrower, and usually cheaper.

 

[Deleted member 4845]

Also, since I have recently seen this come up twice, check for a cable disconnect on the rear hub needed for changing tires. Some do not have this, just a connection point close to the rear wheel.

 

[bpmcallorum]

If you were to hold both torque arms in your hand, which I have, there is ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION which item is better built and designed to help keep your wheel from falling off.

How close to you typically get to autos going at high rates of speed, and how much desire do you have to be on a crashing ebike careening out of control into the path of those vehicles?

Still aiming for 30 mph? GET THE GOOD ONES. OK with 20mph? SAME FRIGGING ANSWER.

Pretty much anything at or over 1000W.

Do you need two? Well, it depends on how much you want to keep all your arms and legs at their current level of functionality, and how much you enjoy facial reconstruction surgery. This is some of the cheapest insurance you will ever buy.

I have snapped off a rear dropout under pedal power alone. As for front dropouts, I used to own a Lambert. Google "death-fork bike".

Thank you Nelson. Yer a bit intense but I appreciate your help.

I’ve owned and rode several motorcycles and motor-scooters btw. I don’t know how fast I’ve gone (no crotch rockets) but highway speeds.

I’ll get a pair of the thicker expensive torque arms in addition to my carbon steel frame.

Any idea the tensile difference between a real steel frame and these cheap carbon-steel frames? I couldn’t find a 100% steel frame.

I’m not tryna go that fast…but I am trying to build something I don’t have to pedal and can take me 30 miles a day around hilly city streets.

Right now I’m looking at 2 motors…a 1500watt and a 1200 watt. The 1200 watt cost $200 more. Not sure if the motor is better or if they are charging for better kit components.

The 1200 has a built in controller.

EBIKELING Waterproof 1200W Ebike Conversion Kit for Electric Bike 26" Rear Wheel, Electric Bicycle Hub Motor Built-in Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MY4GHBM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_BP37VFTN7FPRAQDFGP9C?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

The 1500 watt is lower priced but seems to have everything I want.

EBIKELING Waterproof 1200W Ebike Conversion Kit for Electric Bike 26" Rear Wheel, Electric Bicycle Hub Motor Built-in Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MY4GHBM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_BP37VFTN7FPRAQDFGP9C?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1