Can I replace the cheap controllers (and display?) on my 2x1000w SMLRO XDC-600?

[eTouringOldie]

Reading m@robertson's article

I Hate Ebike Torque-sensing (maybe you should too)

from Tales on Two Wheels, he describes poor cadence sensing PA systems, and mine clearly falls into that bucket. It's on/off when I pedal, so I either get no assist, or full assist up to the speed limit for that PA level.

I'd really like to have PA which pays attention to my cadence, raising or lowering motor output as my cadence changes within the limitations imposed by my selected PA level.

But I have (literally) no clue how to figure out what I need. And the key point is that whatever I replace the existing kit with has to control both motors. Folks have suggested 'Cycle Assist', and that might be the best answer. While that seems like added complexity I very well may end up there. But I'd at least like to explore whether upgrading the controllers and display is feasible and beneficial.

Can anybody out there help me get started on this?

Thanks!

 

[fabbrisd]

A well-planned Mid-Drive Build one good direction a bit down the road - with the Bafang untis - it's fit-up then almost becomes Plug-In-Play - what I hear from you - "Distance" is a key element - you want strong I think and not "Ripping Power" - so Dual Batteries for you are a Must - current Tech Level would be 52V-60V either Samsung or Molicel 21700 cells - - 20-25-30AH - dual mounts - cobined on a Blender which gives you at least +20% more combined distance over swapping each battery out 1x1. Ride Healthy !

 

[eTouringOldie]

Yep, distance/endurance is important, but not paramount. For me, the key element is not breaking down (say) 20 miles up some backcountry dirt road/track where I might be stuck for days waiting for help or pushing that rig back to civilization.

That's why I would (over-) build the drive train up from scratch, avoiding the possibility that some cheap, hidden component (think rear cassette body or rear hub) inside the wheel the ... foreign ... manufacturer used to save a few bucks. I mean if the electronics take a dump, at least I could pedal. But if the motor breaks a drive train component ...

While I get that there are no guarantees, it makes sense to manage the stuff you can control.

 

[m@Robertson]

"Yeah but who actually does that? Certainly no ordinary consumer as you need special equipment to do it."

No, EVERYONE with a BMS in their battery does this.

OK. You were unclear on who was doing the monitoring.

 

[m@Robertson]

Very interesting about front wheel power limitations. Where would they control that? My front wheel controller is 25amp so theoretically could deliver the full 1000W the motor wants. But I suppose they have de-tuned it.

Either they de-tuned it... or they didn't and there is a risk of failure. I doubt the latter. A KT controller can easily allow reduction in amps which means reduction in acceleration. Its the only sane way to do a front motor and a suspension fork without enormous product liability. Hang out on the DIY ebike groups on Facebook and you will see one snapped set of fork dropouts after another if you hang around long enough.

Honestly, this is all new to me. I suspect my next effort will be to build a mid-drive w/ a BBSHD which I can program down to street legal.

Just run the motor. 1500w (which is a BBSHD on a 52v battery and a 25a controller) sounds like a lot but it isn't, in practice.

But that's a 'ground up' project, since I'll want to beef up the drive train from chainwheel to rim. The work it will have to do hauling 450ish lbs (rider, bike, trailer, solar, spare battery, gear) up into the Cascades and eventually the Rockies will require a lot of 'chain-eating' torque. I've considered going with a belt drive, but the cost of a quality IGH seems prohibitive, and I suspect a beefed up chain drive will be just as failure resistant.

Mid drives don't eat chains. Poorly-built ones do, or ones with riders who don't ride it with the mid drive in mind (often its both).

I ride cargo bikes and mine have gotten up to as much as 560 lbs total system weight... thats a real slow ride on a BBSHD, mostly to deal with balancing the load on panniers to the side. Something to consider is I do the awd thing on big cargo bikes specifically to a) spread the traction and b) reduce the strain on the drivetrain. If your hub motor is working in tandem with your mid drive, the mid never has to haul the bike up on its own from a standing start. MNy first experience with a mid drive+front hub resulted in my never having to downshift at stoplights on a commuter, and my 11T cog thus lasted 1500 miles. It should have lasted 50-100 under a single motor if abused like that. My mid drive chains (SRAM EX1, KMC 'e' series or Wipperman Connex if I can find a sale) typically go for at least 3000 miles. I've got one on a Bullitt that is at 3500 so far and still no measurable wear. Thats because of the mid drive and smart use of same rather than riding it like a doofus.

So someday soon I'll have to quit spending money to 'fix' the inadequacies of the bike I have.

That really is the way to go here. Ride the current bike into the ground. Treat it as a gateway drug and build to your needs next time, knowing what the mistakes are and the shortcuts that you got stuck with.

 

[eTouringOldie]

… gateway drug …

Funny, but also too true.

… build to your needs next time …

Yes, it was wishful thinking on my part that I could know my needs before I rode for a while. A lifetime of riding on- and off-road on a variety of ?analog? (sorry, but that’s just silly, how about HP bikes — human powered) bikes gave me a false sense of assumed expertise.

I should add that on a brief ride after work yesterday, it’s clear I can mod the bike/motors quite a bit. Remains to be seen what set-up I prefer — it’s complicated as the settings interact to produce motor/throttle behavior.

 

[fabbrisd]

Glad that Info was some help - with all the "eBike Brands" - and very/very little standardization between component manufacturers - system/parts from the eBike Brand s like looking for water in the desert . Grateful there was a level headed guy who had posted video going thru each of the 17 settable settings - it will take you a bit to get your rig dialed in to be its best for want it to do. All to the good !

 

[m@Robertson]

(sorry, but that’s just silly, how about HP bikes — human powered)

If you don't like that, you will hate the most commonly used term, which is 'acoustic' and refers to guitars, of course. If you want to coin a new term, you'll have to contend with Hewlett-Packard's lawyers if anyone follows your lead.

 

[eTouringOldie]

If you don't like that, you will hate the most commonly used term, which is 'acoustic' and refers to guitars, of course. If you want to coin a new term, you'll have to contend with Hewlett-Packard's lawyers if anyone follows your lead.

Well, they'd have to catch me first

Actually, I didn't even think of that. At one point I worked on a software project which we code-named Asimov. Legal came to us and said we had to change it because Asimov's estate was aggressively litigating anyone who used Asimov as a name for anything. To be clear, this was an internal project name which never would have been used in public. Even so ...

Good times. We considered 'OldDeadSFAuthor' but decided it was too long.

 

[addertooth]

Can't live without a suspension fork. I have ridden a rigid analog MTB on the logging roads, and downhill was just brutal, especially on my elbows. I think it's the chip -- constant rattling transmitted straight from the wheel to my arms.

Very interesting about front wheel power limitations. Where would they control that? My front wheel controller is 25amp so theoretically could deliver the full 1000W the motor wants. But I suppose they have de-tuned it.

The motors don't have much identifying information -- certainly no brand info -- just some gobbledygook numbers which don't return results when googled.

Honestly, this is all new to me. I suspect my next effort will be to build a mid-drive w/ a BBSHD which I can program down to street legal. But that's a 'ground up' project, since I'll want to beef up the drive train from chainwheel to rim. The work it will have to do hauling 450ish lbs (rider, bike, trailer, solar, spare battery, gear) up into the Cascades and eventually the Rockies will require a lot of 'chain-eating' torque. I've considered going with a belt drive, but the cost of a quality IGH seems prohibitive, and I suspect a beefed up chain drive will be just as failure resistant.

So someday soon I'll have to quit spending money to 'fix' the inadequacies of the bike I have. I'll end up calling the whole process a learning experience, and somebody will get a good deal on a lightly used dual hub-drive bike. But ... It is Not This Day

I have essentially the same bike. It is the ZEEGR S1. It was bought a week ago, and suspect there may be minor (non-visible) differences in the bike. And yes, I use the throttle when I want to crawl, as peddle assist wants to take me to top speed of whatever PAS level I am set to. I note the drop-outs on the front fork are quite beefy with a hooded rim for good strength. Most of the time I have pressed the Red button to disengage the front hub motor to preserve power. The front hub is switched on about 2 to 5 percent of the time.

There is a Manual which came with your box; it is titled:

Electric Bike Display
User's Manual
YL81F

It provides a variety of settings, included setting the range of PAS settings 0 to 9 as well as Pedal assist strength levels and pedal delay.
I suspect some of your concerns could be corrected in the settings. I tend to use the throttle when I want to crawl the bike. I was doing that yesterday at a park which was crowded due to an event being held there.

Like you, I picked up a second battery pack with the intent of using a combiner. The two packs are the same (other than the second pack using a 5-pin connector for power, as versus 4 on the physical battery). I am pretty confident that if I start with two fully-charge batteries, they should heat up at about the same rate. Their heating will be reduced due to each battery only carrying (roughly) half the load. Both are 48v and 22.4 AH. The BMS in each pack will also be less stressed, than when a single battery is connected. Both packs are rated for a 2Kw load as well.

The Front Fork dropouts are pretty beefy, but keep in mind the 1Kw motor produces about 60 foot pounds (82 Newton Meters) of force when at full sing. Unfortunately, the dropout does not have existing screw-holes for strapping/bracing it. Perhaps something custom could be fabricated if it is a concern.

Picture of the dropout below on the left side of the bike.

 

[ElHegpah]

Just saw the post about the naming for a software project.

I once wrote a program for hospitals to keep track of the numerous undergraduate training courses for nurses, which are needed to advance their careers and their salary.

I was sending out a demo disk and needed a name for the front screen. Lined up the words vertically on the screen, did not see it in the code, had just run a fresh compile for other changes and first saw the screen as the mailman was coming in the door, had to run and grab the disk mailer.

Continuing Undergraduate Nurses Training. Lined up vertically.