where can i find a compact 500W controller ?

[Dave C]

Hello All.

Maybe someone here can save me hours MORE of searching. I bought a GEN 3 Groove fat tire foldable class 2 eBike 2 years ago. I love it, but have put over 3400 miles on it so i have dealt with many maintenance issues. Now I am dead in the water. My pedal assist stopped working a few months ago. I tried to get the PAS working again by installing new sensor and got familiar with wiring, but it looks like it was a controller issue. Not a great situation, but it wasn't a show stopper because my bike has a thumb throttle. Well after using that extensively for a few months the plastic thumb throttle ring cracked and JB weld couldn't save it. So now the bike is unusable.

I tried looking for a replacement controller long ago with no success. Gen 3 went out of business within a year of me getting my Groove. They actually sent me a replacement controller the first month i got the bike because it got wet from puddles and a poor controller compartment design. They probably had a shelf full of them, but that exact model i cannot get from the internet myself. I have no problem installing an after market version and actually would rather do that because it would likely be cheaper BUT.... the controller compartment is sooo small, I need the same size controller or smaller to fit in it and that is proving VERY difficult to find. Anything that fits is only for 350W max. My biggest dimension problem is length. The original controller is 110 millimeters and BARELY fits in there. Everything i find on Amazon and elsewhere is 118mm 120mm or worse. I know they will just not fit.

So i need a package deal. Controller with display and ideally thumb throttle although i can live with just pedal assist if necessary.

I did try contacting the controller manufacture myself. The company is Lishui, but I have a feeling they only deal with builders and the contact page wouldn't even let me submit a request. Have a feeling dealing with them would be a nightmare anyway. Like i said, would rather go aftermarket.

Anyone know where i can find a compact 500W controller ???

UPDATE : right after posting this, I entered the exact controller # in google and got a listing for the exact controller and display thumb throttle package for my bike from Ali Express. Price ? 230 dollars ! No... not doing that. Bike only cost 800 and will probably need battery replaced soon which will be at least 200.

 

[Annieolnie]

Hi, KT has some controllers on aliexpress that are small enough to fit. They are a reputable brand. You would have to get one of their displays to go with it. There are a lot of YouTube videos on programming them, which seems like a bear but is doable. Most of the vendors on aliexpress have at least one photo with measurements, just watch out for the different connectors so you have some compatibility and the amps, you don't want to stress out an already old battery. It is probably best to start with some videos. It will make it easier to choose a display, some are harder to program then others. Controller prices for your wattage start around $35.00, display a bit higher. Your throttle may still fit as they are more generic. Good luck.

 

[Dave C]

Awesome. I was not aware of them. This is exactly the kind of info i was looking for. Amazon was giving me nothing that worked. Ebay was only slightly better. Like the UPDATE in my post said i did see exact match for my controller and display on Ali Express, but they wanted 230 dollars for it, I assume because that exact combo may have been only for my discontinued bike. Would rather order from somewhere closer than Ali, but I ordered a tire from them before and aside from a long delivery time had no issues.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[m@Robertson]

KT controllers are all I use on hub motor builds. They all have a common settings interface (its often called programming but you are just picking selections from a list of options on a couple of dozen parameters) thanks to the requirement to use a KT display with the controller. The KT-LCD3 is a square, good-sized display whose backlit LCD is visible in any light., and its not too expensive. The LCD8 is a color version, also visible in bright sunlight and it gives you all settings on one screen which is really nice. But its a little pricey. The LCD4 is identical to a small, stealthy Eggrider v2 but it has a backlit LCD so it is readable in all light unlike the OLED screens usually used by displays like this. Its tiny but has all the features of all the other KT displays.

 

[Dave C]

KT controllers are all I use on hub motor builds. They all have a common settings interface (its often called programming but you are just picking selections from a list of options on a couple of dozen parameters) thanks to the requirement to use a KT display with the controller. The KT-LCD3 is a square, good-sized display whose backlit LCD is visible in any light., and its not too expensive. The LCD8 is a color version, also visible in bright sunlight and it gives you all settings on one screen which is really nice. But its a little pricey. The LCD4 is identical to a small, stealthy Eggrider v2 but it has a backlit LCD so it is readable in all light unlike the OLED screens usually used by displays like this. Its tiny but has all the features of all the other KT displays.

Good to be aware of the KTs. I did some shopping on them at Ali Express after AnnieOlnie brought them to my attention, but was not having much luck. Ebikes are not my life. I just have one and it's fun and I'm a DIYer so when it breaks, I've got to figure out how to get it running reliably again in the most economical fashion. This controller/display/throttle shopping was starting to drive me nuts. I was amazed at how many controllers did NOT list their physical dimensions. Seems like that should be one of the most important specs. Not fitting where you need it to be is obviously a non-starter.

I finally went with something i saw on Amazon early on. I passed on it at first cause the dimension photo list a length of 118mm which i don't think will work, but in the listed specs the length is 113mm which probably will. Amazon has free returns so I am just rolling the dice and hoping it will fit. The other dimensions are slightly smaller so that may offer some relief packing all that cable in there.

 

[Annieolnie]

Hey there, I went down a bit of a rabbit hole for you since I've been going down it anyway for myself. As you know your controller is a Lishui. If you get stuck these guys have it for $120.00.They custom assemble them so you could verify the measurements. The other pic here is the KT controller. It is just a 1/2 inch longer. I think you could squeeze it in. It's thirty some odd dollars and is at the Yun ebike store on Aliexpress. I hope your amazon pick works out, if not these are some options, also Amazon may have these too if you put in the exact numbers. I know they have some KTs. Once again, best of luck. The learning curve for ebikes is continuous.

 

[Dave C]

Good job finding that Lishui custom build, but then my cheapness kicks in. Unfortunately since the throttle ring cracked I can't just replace the controller now unless I want to be stuck with just Pedal Assist. The display still works fine, but since the display and throttle on my bike are one unit I'd have to replace everything. As I stated in my original post I found that whole set on Ali too, but way too expensive at 230 dollars. The combo i am rolling the dice on is 60 bucks total. Half the price of just the Lishui controller alone, plus the display and throttle are separate which avoids the current problem I am having of having to replace a perfectly fine display. In fact, in the future if this combo works, but i break my throttle again... for that grand price of $9.52, i can get a new one.

Amazon didn't have many reviews for what i am going with and the few they had were definitely mixed. Thing might not fit anyway, but another main reason I went with it is because it's Amazon and I feel my chance of getting a full refund if necessary are greatly increased than if i was dealing directly with China.

If this does turn out be a bust, I will likely start looking hard at my KT options, but I am really hoping I can stay out of the rabbithole...

 

[Dave C]

Hey there, I went down a bit of a rabbit hole for you since I've been going down it anyway for myself. As you know your controller is a Lishui. If you get stuck these guys have it for $120.00.They custom assemble them so you could verify the measurements. The other pic here is the KT controller. It is just a 1/2 inch longer. I think you could squeeze it in. It's thirty some odd dollars and is at the Yun ebike store on Aliexpress. I hope your amazon pick works out, if not these are some options, also Amazon may have these too if you put in the exact numbers. I know they have some KTs. Once again, best of luck. The learning curve for ebikes is continuous.View attachment 14150View attachment 14151

apparently i replied to my own post when I meant to reply to yours. ugh... too lazy to redo it right, but it's there for you to read if interested....

 

[Annieolnie]

Hello again, I think you might have a winner. The stats look good. Turns out your original controller is mostly special order. The site I sent you seems to be the cheapest way to do that. I'm aware of the Hudmansky seller, he deals in a lot of bike parts so that should be fine. My one suggestion would be to hold onto your old controller in case some of the connectors don't fit. You can often un- pin your old ones and move them over. There are also YouTube videos for that, which are not as daunting as KT controller videos. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Dave C]

Hello again, I think you might have a winner. The stats look good. Turns out your original controller is mostly special order. The site I sent you seems to be the cheapest way to do that. I'm aware of the Hudmansky seller, he deals in a lot of bike parts so that should be fine. My one suggestion would be to hold onto your old controller in case some of the connectors don't fit. You can often un- pin your old ones and move them over. There are also YouTube videos for that, which are not as daunting as KT controller videos. Let us know how it goes.

i hope it's a winner... we will see. I try not to be a hoarder, but that old controller i would likely hang onto anyways. That is one thing I was already thinking about. For the final assembly I can solder into original connectors if necessary, but will I be able to test the new controller without splicing into the wiring ? That would surely complicate the return process if not make it impossible.

Guess that will be answered in a few weeks when the slow boat from China gets here. Will let you know how it goes.

 

[Dave C]

So my Amazon-ordered controller/display/throttle set came in at very end of April and I've had it in for a week now. Did have to do some splicing on the new controller to wire up which i am sure voided any chance of a return if it had problems, but luckily seems be working fine. Definitely a tight fit in my bike's controller compartment which makes me nervous. I find it really to be a poor design... the bike's compartment not the controller. I like the bike, but never liked how the controller is housed. Too small and easily exposed to water.

New controller doesn't quite have the zip of the old one, especially in the throttle. May actually be safer, but feels a little like something is lacking. It seems to get up to speed just takes longer to do it. The new display, however, blows away my original. Original was too small, hard to read and had less info. New one is large, strongly backlit and gives me a volt reading which i love. Some people in reviews said throttle construction was shoddy, but i find it adequate. If it does break i know i can replace it for 10 dollars which is awesome.

I was unable to wire up the ebrake connectors due to lacking the proper plugs on the bike side. Didn't want to just solder wires together as i still want to be able to remove the controller easily if necessary. I am hoping the connectors are standard for ebikes, but this is my first deep dive so i have no idea. i will post again later with pics so hopefully someone can help me identify what I need to order.

so good to be back on the road again. thanks for y'alls help.

 

[HumanPerson]

So my Amazon-ordered controller/display/throttle set came in at very end of April and I've had it in for a week now. Did have to do some splicing on the new controller to wire up which i am sure voided any chance of a return if it had problems, but luckily seems be working fine. Definitely a tight fit in my bike's controller compartment which makes me nervous. I find it really to be a poor design... the bike's compartment not the controller. I like the bike, but never liked how the controller is housed. Too small and easily exposed to water.

New controller doesn't quite have the zip of the old one, especially in the throttle. May actually be safer, but feels a little like something is lacking. It seems to get up to speed just takes longer to do it. The new display, however, blows away my original. Original was too small, hard to read and had less info. New one is large, strongly backlit and gives me a volt reading which i love. Some people in reviews said throttle construction was shoddy, but i find it adequate. If it does break i know i can replace it for 10 dollars which is awesome.

I was unable to wire up the ebrake connectors due to lacking the proper plugs on the bike side. Didn't want to just solder wires together as i still want to be able to remove the controller easily if necessary. I am hoping the connectors are standard for ebikes, but this is my first deep dive so i have no idea. i will post again later with pics so hopefully someone can help me identify what I need to order.

so good to be back on the road again. thanks for y'alls help.

Ok, be careful with the heat generated by that controller in that small space..make sense?

That heat will destroy your controller..just sayin.


Perhaps you could mount the controller on the outside of your frame somewhere?

Good Job!

 

[Annieolnie]

Thanks for letting us know. So, Guys on the EBR forum have done this. You probably have 2 pin and the new controller has 3 pin. They splice together a male and female extension cable. They say there is ground and sensor and the third wire is for a brake light, which you probably don't have. This is the cable on Amazon. It seems doable. You've been doing great so far, might as well give it a try.

 

[Dave C]

Thanks for letting us know. So, Guys on the EBR forum have done this. You probably have 2 pin and the new controller has 3 pin. They splice together a male and female extension cable. They say there is ground and sensor and the third wire is for a brake light, which you probably don't have. This is the cable on Amazon. It seems doable. You've been doing great so far, might as well give it a try.

i definitely try to leave a conclusion when people help me just so they know how their effort faired. After my update back in May tho, i never looked back cause my eBike was running again. still is, but i foolishly let the ebrake cable problem slide till now . i knew this was an accident waiting to happen and planned to solve problem cause I realized a surging motor from a PAS when you really want to be stopped is bad news. unfortunately i didn't keep it high enough on the to-do list and a few days ago it caused me to lay the bike down in oncoming traffic. more embarrassing then damaging. had only a few scrapes on me and clamp on display cracked, but i realized it could have been a LOT worse.

came back here to pursue cable ID and just saw your post from back then with the HUDAMZKY cable extensions listed on Amazon. Seems like an excellent place to start. will let you know if this is what gets me safe again. thanks.

 

[Dave C]

well now i am motivated to get this brake situation solved since i still have the scrapes on my skin healing to remind me of the danger of their absence. Problem with the extension cables is the ends are both round plugs, but my ebrake connectors at the HUDAMZKY controller are square clips of the kind shown in attached photo. The round connectors at the handlebars are actually the bike manufacturer electrical ( Gen 3 ) so not even sure they will connect to the Hudamzky extension cables. Can you confirm they are standard (same) connectors ? My bike's brake connectors are roughly 7mm in diameter. It would be great if i could find cables that match on both ends, but I could splice new connectors in if necessary at the controller. Do you know the name of that type of square connector ?

UPDATE right after writing this looks like i may have found the answer. Those square plugs at the controller sure look like the SM plugs on the cable i just found on Amazon ( attached ). This may be exactly what i need. thoughts ? will order soon if i don't hear a reason not to bother....

 

[Annieolnie]

Grin Technologies has a great overview on connectors. You want to go from the JST-SM plug to the Juliet connector. Ebikes.ca/learn/connectors.html is the web page. The Julet plugs are also called Juliet or Higo. There are days when the world just likes to be confusing. You have to check your wiring so that you duplicate it properly and remember that when plugs face each other, you are working with a mirror image. If you need to test for voltage and ground a Tpin or sewing needle can be helpful with the tiny plugs. Glad you only had a minor scrape. Here are the pics.

 

[Dave C]

wow. thanks for the quick reply. this is by far the best help i have ever gotten on a forum.

appreciate general eBIke connector knowledge. have bookmarked the site you gave me.

for the problem at hand, I think i am going to order those cables on Amazon i found. they are HUDAMZKY cables so i am pretty confident the SM connectors will connect to the HUDAMZKY controller i have installed. I am not sure about the Juliette connectors at the brake handles. The specs on the listing don't help, but it sure looks like it will work. think it's worth a shot ?

HUDAMZKY brake cables

UPDATE: na... don't think those cables are right after closer inspection. they are selling two different sets. one with HIGO, one with SM, on the other end is the waterproof technology or something. I need cables with the female HIGO at one end and male SM at the other. I'll keep looking.

 

[Annieolnie]

I think the one on Ebay is what you want. It has a secondary plug so that you can manage the internal wiring. You could also get the stick on type that goes on the top of your brake handle and has a jst-sm plug on the other end, but that is not as clean a look. This first one is the stick on, second is ebay. This image insertion has a mind of its own.

 

[m@Robertson]

So it looks like you have HIGO's on the bike and JST's on the controller. Unfortunately you are finding this out as you go along, but the same controller model is typically sold with two different types of connectors. One is JSTs which is what you have, and the other is HIGO/Julet. Oftentimes higo's are marketed as merely "waterproof" connectors. None of this is going to help you now since you have already gotten out the soldering iron and gotten the bike mostly working again. But for future readers, pay attention to those controller plugs so you get a match out of the gate.

What CAN maybe help you @Dave C is the fact that you can buy HIGO pigtails on Amazon, AliExpress etc. So you can also buy JST connectors and, once you figure out the pinouts, make your own adapter cable that is pluggable instead of soldered permanently.

I went to Amazon and searched on 'higo pigtail' and this is the first thing that came up. Overnight delivery if you have Prime. I would buy more than you need in anticipation of the inevitable learning process

Amazon.com

 

[Dave C]

I think you are on to something with the HIGO pigtails suggestion. I doubt i could get exact length, have a super tight controller compartment and don't want to coil the extra cable on the frame. To clarify my situation, I have not hard soldered in anything yet and all the other existing connections are plugs. I value easy removal of the controller. On the theme of efficiency and space constraints i am now thinking i could go HIGO Y-connector so I am only running one cable along frame and then just hooking into one one of the ebrake connectors at the controller. Is there a downside to this ? Not sure why the controller has two ebrake inputs anyway. Seems irrelevant whether you are applying the rear or front or both brakes.... In all scenarios the want the motor to cut out yes ?...

HIGO Y split extension