Bike theft problem around London

[JerryB]

As a father of 6 kids, and 3 step-children, I know how it feels to have one of them treated badly by a stranger. There is often a strong parental desire to have the enjoyment of dealing with the source of your child's pain. It isn't a rational feeling, but it is a strong feeling.

For me, what tempers that desire is a clear understanding of the law.

Me too but much is determined by the extent of assault of the attack.....physically attack one of my daughters, grandkids or wife........I will guarantee you the bad guy is gonna have a very bad day......regardless of any laws......just sayin.

 

[pagheca]

Just today in Italy, my home country, a trial was concluded against a jeweler who, after suffering the second robbery, chased the two thieves outside his shop, shot them several times between cars and unsuspecting bystanders, and killed them. After that he also kicked the corpse of one of them.

Well, the jeweler was sentenced to 17 years in prison.

While I understand the jeweler's gut reaction, because we are not always rational beings, I am very proud to be part of a country that does not leave such an execution unpunished.

The idea of the vigilante arming and defending himself is just not part of our DNA. In Italy there is a high risk of pickpocketing and theft maybe, but usually thieves don't shoot you, because they know there is no need to shoot: better to eventually get arrested, do 6 months (or zero) in jail and get out than to risk years in prison for murder. And I'm glad that's the case, and feel much more safe there than in the US, because it's no coincidence that we have infinitely fewer murders and massacres than in the US.

Then think what you will, for goodness sake, but for every gun given to a citizen to defend himself there will always be two or three taken by a thug to attack you (plus deaths due to suicides, mistakes, children finding guns and playing with them etc.). And the data show that, with all due respect, from the security point of view on this side of the Ocean we are much better off. Then one can postulate the most bizarre theories to justify these differences, but facts are facts, opinions are what they are: opinions.

https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/20...a-pistola-e-spara-inseguendo-i-ladri/6913789/ for the video of what happened, if interested.

 

[JerryB]

The jeweler acted emotionally and is not a responsible gun owner....his actions were irresponsible. Vigilante is a very strong term and does not apply to responsible gun owners. I do not support vigilante behavior in any country.....self protection in a responsible manner is a different story. I do agree with your comment......" one can postulate the most bizarre theories to justify these differences, but facts are facts, opinions are what they are: opinions." Thanks for your opinion.

 

[pagheca]

" one can postulate the most bizarre theories to justify these differences, but facts are facts, opinions are what they are: opinions." Thanks for your opinion.

Funny but no. I was referring to the facts (statistics) I had cited above in another comment. As well known to everyone here, I guess, the U.S. are an outlier in terms of murders among civilized countries. Then we may discuss forever about the reasons, but frankly speaking, I would prefer not to try "your way" (selfdefence, spreading of weapons, easy of selling and owning arms, etc.) in the place where I live.

I have many friends and ties in the U.S., a country where I have lived and worked in the past, including a couple of now adults who went to a very famous school at Columbine, with whom I spent a year together (we were both wintering at the South Pole Station) and, you know, they learned what this means first person. And among my friends so many complain about this culture of death, and some have also moved to Europe, or elsewhere, where maybe you can't own the ebike that whizzes by at 50 mph but where if you send your child to school you don't have to worry about whether he or she will come home alive.

I am Italian by birth, but trust me: when someone criticize my country with well-justified arguments (and the reasons can be many...) I have no problem admitting that there is a problem. After so many years traveling and working abroad, nationalism is no more part of my way of life.

If that woman in London had been armed, it is not certain either that she would have been able to save her bicycle or that instead of a robbery it would not have become the scene of a crime. Thank you, but I prefer it this way. Just the idea of having to shoot someone makes me cringe. We are human beings, and the law must be defended not with personal vengeance and the use of personal weapons but building together a society minimizing the conditions under which a crime accrues.

Then if some of you prefer it that way okay, but in your country, please. I am horrified by the idea of going around armed on a bicycle.

 

[HumanPerson]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/18bsnaw

 

[JerryB]

Funny but no. I was referring to the facts (statistics) I had cited above in another comment. As well known to everyone here, I guess, the U.S. are an outlier in terms of murders among civilized countries. Then we may discuss forever about the reasons, but frankly speaking, I would prefer not to try "your way" (selfdefence, spreading of weapons, easy of selling and owning arms, etc.) in the place where I live.

I have many friends and ties in the U.S., a country where I have lived and worked in the past, including a couple of now adults who went to a very famous school at Columbine, with whom I spent a year together (we were both wintering at the South Pole Station) and, you know, they learned what this means first person. And among my friends so many complain about this culture of death, and some have also moved to Europe, or elsewhere, where maybe you can't own the ebike that whizzes by at 50 mph but where if you send your child to school you don't have to worry about whether he or she will come home alive.

I am Italian by birth, but trust me: when someone criticize my country with well-justified arguments (and the reasons can be many...) I have no problem admitting that there is a problem. After so many years traveling and working abroad, nationalism is no more part of my way of life.

If that woman in London had been armed, it is not certain either that she would have been able to save her bicycle or that instead of a robbery it would not have become the scene of a crime. Thank you, but I prefer it this way. Just the idea of having to shoot someone makes me cringe. We are human beings, and the law must be defended not with personal vengeance and the use of personal weapons but building together a society minimizing the conditions under which a crime accrues.

Then if some of you prefer it that way okay, but in your country, please. I am horrified by the idea of going around armed on a bicycle.

I appreciate your opinion......I know many responsible gun owners who have similar thoughts.....wish you the best.

 

[pagheca]

the problem, Jerry, is that sometimes the "responsible gun owners" show that they are not so responsible. But it is often too late... and personally I prefer not to have them around than discovering it.

I wish it doesn't happen to you or any of your loved ones.

 

[Smaug]

pagheca, didn't you once say you try to avoid the political topics?

This is one you can't seem to leave alone though, hehehe.

 

[pagheca]

yes, Smaug, I did for a while but I noticed that people was quoting what I wrote and kept responding so as a human being... I couldn't resist

However, I am a firm believer that as long as there is a strong respect for others´ opinions, as is happening (for once over the internet!) here, we can continue to politely and honestly express and compare our opinions, even if the topic is very delicate and divisive.

If the opposite happened I would stop immediately (and flag the post).

 

[Pinhead]

I have always instilled in my sons, as a single father their mother walked out on them at 7,6 and 4, I raised them, all ADHD with Autism.

If you are ever stolen from let them have it, what you have can easily be replaced. It is insured, it is better to make a quick mental note of something important.

Their clothes, vehicle, eye colour and are there any cameras on posts around you can tell the police about

 

[JerryB]

the problem, Jerry, is that sometimes the "responsible gun owners" show that they are not so responsible. But it is often too late... and personally I prefer not to have them around than discovering it.

I wish it doesn't happen to you or any of your loved ones.

Thanks......you seem to want the last word but.......not so responsible gun owners are irresponsible gun owners......I agree they can be a problem. I know many responsible gun owners.......as a certified instructor......I taught them responsible gun safety for many years......they are really good people.