Spokes vs solid rims - which is truest?

[Slippy One]

Hi folks, I have the 20" solid style rims, and was never impressed with their 'trueness' when spinning them and looking down the center, although not sure if this is just fat tires being slightly wonky or if the guy who welded them together being off a few mm.

Would swapping these to spoked rims make them appear for gyroscopically pure when spinning? Or are 4" fat tires the problem?

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom, I love the engineering in modern bikes.

 

[Bohemoth]

Connect a ziptie to your frame and trim or adjust the end to just touch the rim below the tire and give it a spin... Poor mans trueing stand.

 

[Slippy One]

For me it's either bike upside down checking the motor/gears or when adjusting the calipers, but there's no way in hell they're perfect, I'm just wondering if it's normal with tires over 4" wide or because I rarely go faster than 20mph does it even matter? I'm more worried about strain on the hub bearings than a quest for true perfection..

 

[Bohemoth]

Well my idea was just to see if it was your tires or wheels. I thought thats what you wanted to know

 

[Slippy One]

Oh sure, that's what I already know from spinning upside down, there's a few mm's on all 4 wheels on 2 bikes -How can I tell if's a tire or rim issue?

 

[Slippy One]

Is it possible cheap/substandard bearings are to blame? (bike is 6 months old)

 

["A"]

Seating & balancing the tire on a solid wheel is key to smooth operation.
Inflate the tire in steps, pump enough air into the tire to seat the bead, but still able to use your hand to adjust the bead so the tire seats evenly, usually 3-4 psi for fat tire.
Once you've seated the tire onto the rim evenly, then inflate the tire to full pressure.
I've been mounting & balancing motorcycle tires for decades, these ebikes with fat tires are easy to mount & balance in comparison.

 

[Bohemoth]

Oh sure, that's what I already know from spinning upside down, there's a few mm's on all 4 wheels on 2 bikes -How can I tell if's a tire or rim issue?

Thats what I told you in my post about the zip tie! Put the zip tie on your frame or fork and trim it and rotate it so it is nearly or just touching the rim (not the tire). Then spin the rim and watch where the zip tie touches the rim and you will be able to see any variation in the trueness of the rim. Try it and report back

 

[hsdrggr]

Wheels with spokes can be trued. But the solid wheels can not. Also from what I’ve seen the solid wheels are generally not true and come in cheaper bikes. Stay away from them

 

[Smaug]

I think it depends on the quality of the cast wheels. If they're well-made, they will be equally as true as a new spoked wheel, (nearly perfect) however they still stay the same forever, rather than going out of true like spoked wheels will.

They also will not loosen up or bend from the torque of a motor like spoked will.

The downside is that they are generally heavier and usually more expensive.

 

[hsdrggr]

I’ve built hundreds of spoked wheels. If they are built and tensioned correctly they only need to be tightened up one time after they are ridden initially, if that. Currently I have five Ebikes and the same goes for them. And one is a mid drive.

Like I said, generally cast wheels are found on cheap bikes. But there are a few nice bikes and they come with decent cast wheels.

Most of the junk cast wheels are polymer.

 

[Fattirebike]

I have a 20x4 fat tire on a cast wheel - the wheel is true, but the tire was not. I adjusted the bead seating as well as I could but it's still slightly out of balance. These are Kenda Krusade tires - not sure if its any better on other brands of fat tires.

 

["A"]

I've built enough spoked wheels to know that they do need adjustments, under the extra power of a motor, they need more frequent adjustments.

Cast wheels are just zero maintenance, once you've got the 20 x 4 tires mounted proper, just ride it, over any type of potholes and they hold up just fine here in NYC.
Yes, they are heavier, but you've got a motor to help you along.

I've had 6 ebikes with cast wheels, another 6 or more with spoked wheels.
With fat tires, I prefer the cast wheels.

 

[ElHegpah]

Spoked wheels are adjustable, cast wheels are not.

Spoked wheels are inexpensive, good quality cast wheels are not.

Spoked wheels allow the rim to flex under impact to prevent breakage, cast wheels do not.

Spoked wheels are lightweight, cast wheels are not.

They look spiffy-keen, though.

 

[hsdrggr]

I've built enough spoked wheels to know that they do need adjustments, under the extra power of a motor, they need more frequent adjustments.

Cast wheels are just zero maintenance, once you've got the 20 x 4 tires mounted proper, just ride it, over any type of potholes and they hold up just fine here in NYC.
Yes, they are heavier, but you've got a motor to help you along.

I've had 6 ebikes with cast wheels, another 6 or more with spoked wheels.
With fat tires, I prefer the cast wheels.

 

[hsdrggr]

I have a 20x4 fat tire on a cast wheel - the wheel is true, but the tire was not. I adjusted the bead seating as well as I could but it's still slightly out of balance. These are Kenda Krusade tires - not sure if its any better on other brands of fat tires.

If the bead doesn’t seat 100% evenly, you can use a little bit of mineral oil or 100% silicone grease lightly applied to the bead area of the tire to help it seat evenly. DO NOT use any type of petroleum based grease/lube, it can degrade the rubber.
My wife’s Aventon has 26x4 Kenda Krusader tires and they actually impress me. They have extra knobbies in the centerline so the tire rides pretty smoothly on pavement. They work great on loose dirt too. I run them at 15psi generally.

 

[bobmcc81]

Wondering what you're goal is on "gyroscopically pure" ? The differences between spoked and cast have already been stated. You can tune a spoked wheel extremely close to perfectly true but perfectly round is elusive after some riding in urban terrain. Even if you can't see flat spots with the human eye they are common and of course the more meat on the tire the better those tiny flat spots are hidden from your riding experience.

Off roading there is a reason off road motorcycles have never adopted cast wheels, even the big bucks factory rides.

 

["A"]

Off roading there is a reason off road motorcycles have never adopted cast wheels, even the big bucks factory rides.

Honestly, do you ride your ebike the same way as an off-road motorcyle?
Do you land 20' tabletops with your ebike or do jumps 10" in the air?
That's what I do with my off-road motorcycle, so when I damage the rim I can replace just the rim, not the whole wheel.
But on ebikes, I don't do dirt jumps.
20x4 fat tires can soak up much of the road shock that I experience on pavement or hardpack trails.
The near maintenance-free cast wheels allow more riding time instead of maintenance on out of true, spoked wheels.

 

[bobmcc81]

My point was for off roading there is a reason off road motorcycle manufacturers stay with spoke wheels. The same reason would apply to any two wheelers whether one pushes the limit to see the benefit over cast wheels is up to one's riding style and aggressiveness. Looks like you enjoy your motorcycle, good on you for not just letting it wither away in a garage.

 

["A"]

My point was for off roading there is a reason off road motorcycle manufacturers stay with spoke wheels. The same reason would apply to any two wheelers whether one pushes the limit to see the benefit over cast wheels is up to one's riding style and aggressiveness. Looks like you enjoy your motorcycle, good on you for not just letting it wither away in a garage.

Off-road motorcycle manufacturers stay with spoked wheels because they are repairable for the abuse they are designated for.
Majority of ebikes do not share do not share the same designated purpose as off-road motorcycles; similarly most cars, motorcycles & SUVs do not have spoked wheels.