addertooth
Well-known member
Unfortunate outcome. Hopefully you will get your money back out of it, without it being on the market too long.
Fat tire bike mid-drive Conversions
- Thread starter munirider
- Start date
They are Surly Rabbit Hole rims, they say they are a mostly single wall rim but there are spacers close to the sidewalls, they are calling it a hybrid single/double wall. 50mm wide with cutouts. Being single wall in the middle it doesn't look like it will be unusually hard to get the tire off. They said it was to be paired with their 29 x 3.0 tire called the Knard.
I think I will be able to especially if I clean up the 29" wheels and sell them separately.
The bike looks newer than it is because it is in really good shape, the paints almost perfect and the tires look new. For someone wanting a fatty snow bike this would be great for a lot of people. There's a fat tire bike race/event in Silverton in February https://silvertonwhiteout.com If I don't get it sold before that I might bring it over and put a for sale sign on it. I have been wanting to go over and check it out someday anyway
I was figuring out what I will need to build the Growler fat bike and reading an article on difficult installation that was linked on Luna Cycle https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/...xes-for-non-standard-bb-intrusive-chainstays/
In the article there was a link to California Ebike for motor spacers. Where I found this, https://california-ebike.com/produc...ll-fat-bike-modification-kit-for-bafang-bbs02 a long shaft kit to convert a BBSO2 to fit 120mm bottom brackets. I have an extra BBSO2 motor with the standard 68-72mm axle shaft and a Leiki Bling ring 40t, so I am thinking of doing this. I think it might be an easier fit than the BBSHD since it's smaller and also a couple of pounds lighter. I really like the BBSO2 I've heard it's not as durable as the BBSHD but I like it's smaller size and lighter weight and it's plenty powerful enough for my wife, she's 110lbs. Also this bike is built really light and I would like to keep the weight down as much as possible.
I asked California Ebike when they expect to have the BBSO2 long axle kit back in stock. If it is going to be a while I'll probably go ahead and get a BBSHD motor and get it built, get this kit as well and then when I find a suitable fatty to build for myself I'll switch the BBSO2 onto the Growler and use the BBSHD on my bike.
I'm going to need some spacers either way, they have Leiki spacers at California Ebike (out of stock) and individual spacers at Luna also out of stock. If I can't find any I will buy a piece of aluminum tubing and cut/make them myself. https://store.buymetal.com/aluminum/round-tube/aluminum-round-tube-6061-t6511-1-625-0-125.html I'll do some more looking around first. If anybody knows of any BB spacers that are available right now please let me know.
In the article there was a link to California Ebike for motor spacers. Where I found this, https://california-ebike.com/produc...ll-fat-bike-modification-kit-for-bafang-bbs02 a long shaft kit to convert a BBSO2 to fit 120mm bottom brackets. I have an extra BBSO2 motor with the standard 68-72mm axle shaft and a Leiki Bling ring 40t, so I am thinking of doing this. I think it might be an easier fit than the BBSHD since it's smaller and also a couple of pounds lighter. I really like the BBSO2 I've heard it's not as durable as the BBSHD but I like it's smaller size and lighter weight and it's plenty powerful enough for my wife, she's 110lbs. Also this bike is built really light and I would like to keep the weight down as much as possible.
I asked California Ebike when they expect to have the BBSO2 long axle kit back in stock. If it is going to be a while I'll probably go ahead and get a BBSHD motor and get it built, get this kit as well and then when I find a suitable fatty to build for myself I'll switch the BBSO2 onto the Growler and use the BBSHD on my bike.
I'm going to need some spacers either way, they have Leiki spacers at California Ebike (out of stock) and individual spacers at Luna also out of stock. If I can't find any I will buy a piece of aluminum tubing and cut/make them myself. https://store.buymetal.com/aluminum/round-tube/aluminum-round-tube-6061-t6511-1-625-0-125.html I'll do some more looking around first. If anybody knows of any BB spacers that are available right now please let me know.
It looks like the BBSO2 with the 120mm long axle kit from California Ebikes is going to be a good fit for the Growler I don't have the long axle kit yet, California Ebikes is slow getting it shipped out. I just slid the motor into the bb shell with 10mm of spacers and it has 2mm of clearance between the chain stay and the 40t Leiki chain ring teeth so with 10mm of spacers on each side it will be centered.
The threaded lug on the motor where the bb support connects hits the down tub right in the center so it can't be brought up as close as it would otherwise fit. The motor only hangs down a bit more than the 40t chainring so it looks good to me.
The chain line looks perfect, as good as the bikes original chain line possibly a tiny bit closer in.
The threaded lug on the motor where the bb support connects hits the down tub right in the center so it can't be brought up as close as it would otherwise fit. The motor only hangs down a bit more than the 40t chainring so it looks good to me.
The chain line looks perfect, as good as the bikes original chain line possibly a tiny bit closer in.
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I purchased a Growler quite a few years ago. It's a well made Fat tire bike and has given me a great time traveling on her with no problems whatsoever.
The fine folks at Growler bikes which is based in New York are top notch.
You won't go wrong with a Growler!
Yeah it worked out really well, the Ice cream truck not so much. I am really impressed with the quality of everything on the Growler It's a really sweet ride!
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MikeDuf
Member
Hello, I have been reading this thread and everyone's comments and was getting pretty pumped up to really attempt to build my own Fat Tire Bike. I think it's a great hobby to learn and understand how these bikes work and make it your own.
But like others have mentioned by the time you costed out for each item that you particularly want it gets fairly expensive!
I came across this Fat Tire Bike and it looks fairly enticing as far as the quality goes and componentry and frame geometry. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on this if it looks like a halfway decent Fat Tire Bike to get into? Thanks in advance
cykebikes.com
But like others have mentioned by the time you costed out for each item that you particularly want it gets fairly expensive!
I came across this Fat Tire Bike and it looks fairly enticing as far as the quality goes and componentry and frame geometry. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on this if it looks like a halfway decent Fat Tire Bike to get into? Thanks in advance
Falcon X Full Suspension Ebike
Falcon X, an off-road eBike for all-terrain exploration with great power. Featuring RockShox four-bar suspension, BAFANG 1000W mid-drive motor, 28MPH top speed, and 160Nm torque sensor. Lifetime warranty for the frame. Free shipping.
cykebikes.com
m@Robertson
Well-known member
The scary thing about all of these pre-manufactured bikes is the proprietary battery. What are you going to do when the battery wears out? Besides pray the seller is still in business and they have a battery they are willing to sell you? You can expect they will want a lot for it relative to the open market.
I notice this bike has a gross 102 lb weight. Holy $hit thats a lot for a bike that is not a cargo bike. They have a 'net' weight of 87 lbs which is still a bunch... but whats the difference? 87 without the battery I bet so 105 for-reals it is.
Surprisingly, their 300 lb weight limit may actually be truthful. E-Cells used to fib big time on their bikes' weight capacity by claiming 450 lbs of cargo weight (i.e. weight over and above - not counting - the bike). Except their Rockshox rear shock had a psi limit of 250 lbs, and if you took the time to read the manual for the shock they used, you put in 1 psi for each pound of rider + gear. So the truthful weight limit on their bike was really 250 lbs. In the case of the Cyke, the same 1-for-1 ratio holds, but the Rockshox shock they are using has a 360 lb pressure limit. So their claim of 300 lbs holds up with a bit of breathing room. Color me surprised as usually if there is a lie to be found in the ad copy vs. the specs it is found right there.
I notice this bike has a gross 102 lb weight. Holy $hit thats a lot for a bike that is not a cargo bike. They have a 'net' weight of 87 lbs which is still a bunch... but whats the difference? 87 without the battery I bet so 105 for-reals it is.
Surprisingly, their 300 lb weight limit may actually be truthful. E-Cells used to fib big time on their bikes' weight capacity by claiming 450 lbs of cargo weight (i.e. weight over and above - not counting - the bike). Except their Rockshox rear shock had a psi limit of 250 lbs, and if you took the time to read the manual for the shock they used, you put in 1 psi for each pound of rider + gear. So the truthful weight limit on their bike was really 250 lbs. In the case of the Cyke, the same 1-for-1 ratio holds, but the Rockshox shock they are using has a 360 lb pressure limit. So their claim of 300 lbs holds up with a bit of breathing room. Color me surprised as usually if there is a lie to be found in the ad copy vs. the specs it is found right there.
MikeDuf
Member
Oh man! Just saw that weight on the specs.
I didn't read that far down.
My assumption would have been at least 45 to 50 pounds but 102 I don't think so!
I have resolved to a pretty hard line on a e-bike weight and that's 55 lb.
The last thing I really want to do is push around a heavy bike if something should go wrong.
I thought building one might be a cool alternative and then I saw this bike and it looked pretty solid as far as the geometry and all the components, but I neglected to look at the weight.
If I do get around to building one I definitely want to build it as light as possible. That would be Paramount.
I didn't read that far down.
My assumption would have been at least 45 to 50 pounds but 102 I don't think so!
I have resolved to a pretty hard line on a e-bike weight and that's 55 lb.
The last thing I really want to do is push around a heavy bike if something should go wrong.
I thought building one might be a cool alternative and then I saw this bike and it looked pretty solid as far as the geometry and all the components, but I neglected to look at the weight.
If I do get around to building one I definitely want to build it as light as possible. That would be Paramount.
Getting home in case of a flat is something I always think about. A heavy bike is not necessarily a disqualification for that, provided it has a nice low, gear ratio on the low end. This is a big if, these days, as folks seem to prefer having a high enough high gear ratio to not ghost pedal at the bike's top speed.
Having a Walk mode that doesn't require the owner to hold a button in is nice too: An eBike battery can be dead enough not to haul the rider around, but still have enough juice to pull itself around at 3 mph.
Of course that doesn't help if one needs to make The Call of Shame and load the bike into a van/hatchback/SUV. The difference between a 50 lb. bike and 70 lb. bike is huge, when you have to lift it single-handedly.
I'm looking again at fat tire (4") or semi-fat tire (3") eBikes. I like to be able to pedal it around comfortably on flat ground at 10-12 mph and to be able to pedal up a moderate hill in the lowest gear. ...but I remember lifting that 60 lb. folding eBike into the back of my SUV and it was sub-optimal.
@munirider , what did you end up doing for an eBike for yourself?
Still working on the Surly?
Buy another donor bike?
Go with something commercial?
or make the Growler yours and leave your wife by the wayside?
MikeDuf
Member
When I look at bike some manufacturers that can make a mountain bike or a city bike that is under 45 lb that makes me realize that yes they can be made lighter and they pretty much all use the same components in the weight area.
So I'm thinking the bigger the wheels/tires/motor and the heavier frame contributes to most of the weight.
I could not believe that cyke bike was over a hundred pounds. It looks cool but way too heavy for practicality.
I don't live in an area that I can just jump on the bike and ride it safely! My area is car Centric and very few bike lanes that are worthy. So I normally transport my bike to friends houses to ride or a local Trail. Weight is a big factor because I have to lift it into a small RAV4.
Yeah weight was the deciding factor for building my e-bikes vs buying a factory built bike. The Growler fat tire e-bike weighs just around 45# with battery. It doesn't have a big battery 52V 10Ah but I don't need a lot of range and I'm not into speed(I usually ride with my dog).
I bought the bike used for $1,500, $1,900 with two sets of wheels 26 and 27.5s It weighed around 28#, 10# motor and a 6# battery and there you are. It's a much better bike with top end components and a frame built in the USA. Bicycle motor works battery was $450 https://www.bicyclemotorworks.com/product-page/ebike-battery-pocket-rocket-s-52v-10ah
BBS02 motor kit $500 and miscellaneous parts another $250 or so. Total with just the one set of 26" wheels was $2,700 +or-
If I had bought the bike new it would have been more like $4,500 in that price range you could probably get a Trek or Specialized or some other high end e-bike but it will still probably be heavier.
It is number four, the Growler was too big for my wife anyway so it's my e-bike. I'm looking for a small frame fat tire bike for her but haven't had any luck, we may need to just buy new.@munirider , what did you end up doing for an eBike for yourself?
Still working on the Surly?
Buy another donor bike?
Go with something commercial?
or make the Growler yours and leave your wife by the wayside?
The Surley ICT is still in my storage container because I'm terrible at selling things, anybody need an 06 Subaru outback in great shape?
MikeDuf
Member
Yep I agree I was looking at big name manufacturers as well. They do have some light bikes but at a premium. I thought it would be fun to attempt to get a good mountain bike frame with a set of wheels and a drivetrain already in place and put in the motor and Battery. For this build I would probably go with a more powerful mid Drive and not worry too much on the Range as long as I could get at least 30 miles. Thanks
m@Robertson
Well-known member
This is the one use case where, if weight is your be-all and end-all, I recommend the BBS02 over the BBSHD. You save almost three pounds (2.86). Myself, I would always go for reliability and bulletproof-ness, which the BBSHD provides, but if weight is your thing then that and a smaller battery are going to be the big ticket items. @munirider points out what I think would be the best source on the market for a small but powerful battery in Bicycle Motorworks,m who I would also tap as a safe supplier given the packs are made-in-USA (I have several packs from them).
That shouldn't happen if you build smart and ride reasonably smart. Everyone who is getting into this has a big fear of this, but a reliable mid drive build that is safe to be a daily driver for literally years is absolutely attainable. The first step in that reliability would be to pick a well-vetted motor that has wide market acceptance and is well known for reliability, and that is going to be the BBS02 and its bigger brother, the BBSHD. The latter of which was created to address the issues found in its '02 predecessor. The 02 has since been beefed up sufficiently provided you use the 750w version with the upgraded mosfets (like what California Ebike and Luna Cycle sell, where Luna would be my first choice of vendor).
But if you want to go that way, you had best get on with it. Bafang has stated they are stopping production of the UART BBSHD and BBS02 end of year, and its entirely possible the ones on sale now are the last before the CAN bus follow-on motors replace them.
Lastly, if weight is your big deal, lose the fat tires. Get yourself built some strong 32-35mm (internal) wheels and use 2.5-3.0 tires. You'll get the cush of a fattie without the weight penalty. Take it from a guy who started out building the fattest of the fat and who has since slimmed down. Fat is fun but you can get 80% of the benefits with 1/2 the tire width and 1/5 the tire volume. If you must go fat, look at the Nextie carbon fiber Wild Dragon 90mm rims. Expensive but light. I have two fatties that use them and would not trade them for the world. For strength without worrying about weight, the Weinmann DHL65, DHL80 and DHL100's are the way to go with outer widths of 65mm, 80 and 100mm respectively.
check out the BBSxx section here, as well as the How To Build An Ebike series, and How To Build an Ebike That Doesn't Break.
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Not quite a Site Map, this page lays out all of the site’s posts in outline form, on one screen, separated by the main category of each and ordered depending on how I think it will be best re…
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m@Robertson
Well-known member
Don't limit yourself to brand-new equipment. This bike was built with a model-year 2000 Intense Tracer frame, which is ridiculously light and strong (fork is a 1999 Marzocchi Bomber). Pic on the left is 2.5 tires, which feel like pillows compared to the 2.35 street tires that have double-thick casings. Pick a frame that isn't 24 years old and you can put on tires bigger than 2.5's.
Frame and fork were acquired cheap by me biding my time and watching Ebay every day for just the right parts to come up at the right price, over maybe a month or two. Everything else was chosen bit by bit. Its a light bike, but could be lighter as the potted 12ah battery is a bit of a boat anchor, although it has other points in its favor.
30 miles on an e-mtb that you are riding singletrack will be a hell of a lot easier to get than on a street bike. If you are riding up and down hills, you don't use any power riding down the other side of a hill you pedaled up.
So it looks like the BBSHD has already been replaced with the m625 1000W and they make the m625 in 750W, and an m225 250W, and an m325 500W. Do you think they won't be as good for some reason, or maybe they won't be programable like the BBSHD or BBS02?
Any word on compatibility for aftermarket chainrings etc. They still use a square taper crank arm I see.
Also do you know what the difference is between a BBS02 and BBS02B?
m@Robertson
Well-known member
The motors have been on the market for some time. In Bafang parlance, the BBS02 and BBSHD are the M315 and M615. Their replacements have been on the market for some time with very little sales success: The M325 and M635. Here is a link to the mid drive page on the Bafang oem site.
Scroll all the way down. Note that there are many options available that are not covered on this page, which is par for the course. The 750w/120Nm version of the BBS02 for example.
The new motors have the same features as the old ones in terms of parts compatibility. But NOT in the controller. Those are CAN bus instead of the UART that everyone has been using and modifying for about a decade. The CAN motors are not modifiable unless you have the Bafang BESST tool. And if you have the BESST tool, you can't get more than a few pointless settings unless you also have a dealer login. Which nobody who is an end user has. Bafang has made some nebulous promises that BESST and a to-be-released app update will allow settings changes, but I'll believe it only when I see it.
The M625 was even sold for a short time with a torque sensor before Bafang pulled it off the market.
Go to the High Voltage Kits Youtube channel for detailed looks at the internals of these motors. Golden Motor has one too IIRC. Johnny Nerdout's Youtube channel was the first to announce Bafang's intention and other Bafang dealers confirmed thats what they were hearing too. This all hit about a month ago. Maybe two.
I haven't looked but I bet you can go to Youtube and search on 'M625' and find stuff.
High Voltage Kits already has a controller replacement for the M625 so I would not be surprised if that becomes a thing (BBSHD replacement hot rod controllers have been available for years).
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