Bafang Configuration Tool for Android

[major masingil]

I spent yesterday "in class" reading several great posts about configuring Bafang motor profiles. (Karl's, Penov's and Spock's). I wonder if I didn't make a mistake by not installing a BBSHD vs. BBS02. Seems the "HD' is a better built motor and if de-tuned, rode with effort and good sense, would last for a very long time. It seems the BBS02 might be easily stressed, but it's what I have. It will have to lug around my #230 + bike weight.
I want to pedal my bike and only use the throttle if needed. So tell me straight, "should I have went with the BBSHD"?
(I guessing maybe, since most posters speak in reference to the BBSHD.)

For the BBS02 I have, I'll probably begin with the "Limitless" profile unless encouraged otherwise.

Is there a depository of current, well-reviewed performance and friendly profiles along with recommended firmware versions for the BBS02, the BBSHD?

Once I have the triangle battery bag, I'll get the Surly conversion together and ready for entering configs. Thanks guys!

I wouldn't worry too much about your motor selection. Yes a BBSHD is more powerful, but a lot of people detune them a bit from their max power for longevity. Once you get settled into your bike, you'll know if you need to upgrade or not. I'm pretty sure you will feel like you have adequate power once you get used to it. At full power a BBS02 still has some umpf.

Here's my POV on motor set points. As you have read, there are a ton of perspectives . I made it so my motor doesn't start until you crank about 3/4 of a revolution or it starts right away if I use the throttle. I did that to avoid accidental motor starts while standing around. I set it so it does not draw a lot of juice when it first engages and then ramps up to full current for that PAS level. I have 9 PAS levels. The first 5 of them a set up so I top out at certain speeds. They're for cruising around town and in public settings where I need to maintain decorum. The other 4 PAS levels are the "limitless" type. The biggest difference in my limitless settings is how quickly the bike gets up to speed and how much juice each crank receives from the motor.

PAS 1-5 top out based on a percentage of the max speed setpoint in the motor configuration. It allows me a type of cruise control at specific speeds while using throttle. PAS 5-9 are based on the percentage of max current the motor is capable of. This allows me to use the amount of juice which is appropriate for the ride.

The other area of configuration I used was how long it takes the motor to cutoff once you stop peddling. The motor I purchased default setting for that would allow power to the motor to continue for 1/2 a second or so after I stopped peddling. I changed to to cut off power almost immediately after I stop, but not immediate.

It takes some trial and error to get it the way you want. It took me a few months of riding and changing settings before I landed where I am now. I haven't changed them in a year.

I ended up getting an eggrider display which makes changing motor setpoints super easy. The only negative thing I can say about the eggrider is it has some small print. I have really good vision and still have problems seeing the smaller details on the screen while riding. If I were on the market, I would look for a controller that allows one to connect via Bluetooth but is a little bigger screen. Not sure there is one of those out there, but that's what I would look for. I wouldn't want a huge display either.

 

[Annieolnie]

Thank you so much for your app. Configuring my BBSO2 Bafang was a walk down a country lane compared to trying to set parameters on any of the controllers for hub motors. Have you considered branching out and writing software for something like the KT packages? It would be greatly appreciated.

 

[m@Robertson]

I spent yesterday "in class" reading several great posts about configuring Bafang motor profiles. (Karl's, Penov's and Spock's). I wonder if I didn't make a mistake by not installing a BBSHD vs. BBS02. Seems the "HD' is a better built motor and if de-tuned, rode with effort and good sense, would last for a very long time. It seems the BBS02 might be easily stressed

Thats pretty much all correct. The '02 is not a bad motor, but the 'HD was created to address weaknesses found in the '02 over time. Zillions of people use the '02 so the world won't end because you have one. You just lack the cushion, so to speak, an HD would give you.

, but it's what I have. It will have to lug around my #230 + bike weight.
I want to pedal my bike and only use the throttle if needed. So tell me straight, "should I have went with the BBSHD"?
(I guessing maybe, since most posters speak in reference to the BBSHD.)

Yes. I think I laid out all the reasons why up above in earlier posts. Positives on the BBS02 side are it is cheaper and it is lighter in weight, but in every other measure the HD is a more capable, durable motor. Maybe an easier way to illustrate can be found when looking at the motors' domestic labeling.

BBS01 - The original. Looks like a BBS02 on the outside, but with 36v/250w rating and internals
BBS02 - a beefed up BBS01. Its internals are now rated for 48v and either 500w or 750w.
BBS03 - What we call the BBSHD. The next step in Bafang's mid drive motor evolution. Much bigger changes than a few internal electrical bits.

And again... the BBS02 is not a bad motor. Its just sort of a junior partner.

Is there a depository of current, well-reviewed performance and friendly profiles along with recommended firmware versions for the BBS02, the BBSHD?

I think you already cited them. The ones I published in the 2023 guide should work great. Just substitute in the lower amp limit of an '02. All the other stuff about gentle motor engagement, fast disengagement and whatnot will still apply. Probably stick to the higher power version since you are starting off small to start with, but use the method described to dial down the overall PAS power levels if you like less. Or do the reverse and start off with the low power version with your amp limit as the only change, and increment it upwards.

 

[1Tuna]

Thanks M. I read about Daniel Nilsson's firmware as well as his Bafang Config Tool. https://github.com/danielnilsson9/bbs-fw/wiki/Configuration-Tool
Seems like a streamlined config tool with proportional settings with many additional features such as the ability to store two profiles; Standard and Sport switchable via the display lights button, a "walk" mode, a "limp home" mode if the display goes wack-o, and a "cruise" mode which at present I wouldn't utilize. Have any members in this forum had success with it? How about the import feature? It would be great to use with the highly thought of Khuukrr settings for BBS02B; https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/bbs02b-my-look-at-driver-settings.47120/

 

[m@Robertson]

Speaking personally, as far as I am concerned I have my Bafang motors down pat. Not interested in doing more with them. My personal feelings about the walk and limp home modes etc. etc. is its way more than is necessary, out past the limit of being desirable. Also is that the one that is the complete reflash of the firmware, which explains the different settings interface? If so I looked at that and its very comprehensive, but I didn't think a complete wheel reinvention was a smart play if you want to rely on your bike and have stuff work forever. Seen too many open source projects where the author has decided not to continue pursuing it.

Speeed seems to be one of these as this thread's original author seems to have abandoned the project some time ago. Its not a fatal problem since Speeed just connects to the existing interface and makes changes to the common system. So if Speeed stops working its no big deal. But what happens if you reflash your firmware so its only compatible with itself, and then something unforeseen happens to your tools that access it?

I don't think much of storing profiles, either. I just take a picture of mine and sock them away for future reference, which in this day/age of Google Photos storage, means they are moments away from retrieval, and an app like Speeed or whatever it is you are using will let you completely type in a whole new set of settings within say 5 minutes. Plus if you read my articles on BBSxx settings, my 2023 settings are all set in stone now after a few years of tinkering, so when I set up a new bike all I am deciding is how steep the pwoer curve is, and how high it bgoes, on PAS. Everything else is standardized now.

On the other hand, If you are new to this, and just flailing around importing one complete suite of settings after another to see what happens, then maybe importing and saving settings is useful.

My personal recommendation would be to learn what the settings mean, what they do and how they interact (none of which is intuitive). The whole teach how to fish thing rather than handing out free fish.

 

[m@Robertson]

read this

Flashing the Firmware

Open source firmware for multiple electric bike motor controllers. - danielnilsson9/bbs-fw

github.com

Also look at the header of the web site. The project was last updated in 2022. Probably if you want to learn more that is useful about this project ask about it over at Endless Sphere. A lot more tinkering and serious research done over there versus anywhere else.

 

[1Tuna]

Thanks for your insight. I'm convinced in this situation, to stick with Penoff's or Luna's Configuration Tool and ride/customize settings as I proceed. While I'm at it I'll put together a glossary of Bafang motor configuration terms (unless they exist in the simplest form) as reference so they're embedded in my Tuna brain.

As far as firmware releases, I've used Merlin's for Asus routers for years and they by far exceed the abilities of stock firmware. He was later contracted or paid by Asus for his work. I've used Station Drivers https://www.station-drivers.com/index.php/en/ firmware for NVMe portable drives and Realtek device firmware also with good results, some that have cured a user's PC experience or provided enhancements not usually available for certain OS versions. And open source, I use some creations everyday, like Greenshot, KeyPass and right-click image resizer. Open source creators get respect from me too and new versions have little value imo! I do like to explore all avenues and forums when doing research.

I don't mean to be a persistent itch or a nag. It's like when I used to hand grub for crawdads, sometimes got surprised when the smallest non-flat rock hid a nice mushy. This is the most preferred bait for most freshwater gamefish. Hopefully, my success may help to mentor others. I do appreciate the advice received from knowledgeable contributors on the various Ebike forums.

 

[m@Robertson]

Karl Gesslein's original article on BBSxx programming defines every setting, and my original article took a stab at defining every setting as well. I would use both as several years passed between the two and what I wrote has a little more hindsight built into it... but the OG encyclopedia is what I used to start my learning and things went pretty good using just that and some subsequent elbow grease.

A Hacker’s Guide To Programming The BBS02 & BBSHD

One way that the BBS02 middrive unit shines over other competition like the Bosch is the ability to program the controller yourself. Although the process of programming the controller will void any…

electricbike-blog.com

BBSHD Programming For The Pedaling Cyclist

(But Not For The Throttler) There is a follow-on to this article that tinkers with these settings a bit further. In August 2023 I published another update that passed along what I’m doing dif…

talesontwowheels.com

Beyond that, there are many sources but since its the internet, and Bafang documents NOTHING, you can expect to see some conflicting information... so I would focus on finding a result you like FIRST and then take the time to understand why you like whatever it is you have (your increased level of knowledge will let you tweak things versus taking shots in the dark).

And remember: This one graph goes a long way towards explaining how most of those settings work on the pedal assist side, as well as the settings that are also used on the throttle screen with the same name.

 

[1Tuna]

Yes, what Karl put together really helps. What I'd like to do is log and save the configs I try.
I like the graph, explains a lot, definitely a save!
Maybe it seems in reverse but I would compose the .el profiles then import them using Penoff's Config Tool versus going field-to-field.
Within a profile there are 3 references to settings I want to make sure what they are;
SDN = Stop Degree Signal?
TS = Stop Delay?
SMM = Speed Meter Type?
The profiles don't completely follow the order of the screen fields so these had me wondering.
Is there additional risk by importing a profile versus inputting each value into the fields of the Tool?

Thanks

 

[m@Robertson]

There's no risk. You're just making things less convenient for yourself

I'm an old command line guy myself, and a programmer who pre-dates all the drag and drop stuff that 'coders' use nowadays So I get the desire to go line by line. But its knowledge that isn't going to have any benefit anywhere other than for typing in a config file by hand for a piece of software meant to put a front end gui on that config file, and whose development has been dead as a doornail for years.
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EDIT: Actually, we don't know there's no risk. As a programmer explaining my work to business types day to day, I have often said that any idiot can program a system to do something. A good programmer is instead defined by how well they handle unexpected or wrong human inputs. Oftentimes error handling in a program written by someone who knows what they are doing is more lines of code than what is needed to do the actual job. Same goes for setting acceptable parameter ranges.

so... bypassing the gui is a way to discover how good the error handling is, and how thorough the parameter limits are (and whether they are there in the first place).

You can pore over the source code supplied with the Penov distribution and verify it, of course.

 

[1Tuna]

Sounds perfect!