Wired using 50S cells on 110a total controllers?

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Xphobe

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So, Wired is about to deliver their new 72v ebikes, one of them being their 8000w (110amp) dual motor Predator. My issue is that they are only using the Samsung 50S cells instead of going tabless.
The front battery is 20ah (4 pass) and the rear battery is 15ah (3 pass). They stated you you do not need to use both at the same time either, you can use either or if you wanted. How?
The performance on the 50S is not the best after 15a and especially not after 20a. The front cells will be pushing over 27a if used alone and the rear will be over 36a if used alone. Am I missing something here?
 
The Wired Predator has two controllers, two individual motor setups. Imagine if you had a little Jeep TJ with a motor in the front and another independent motor in the back and that was how they had decided to handle all- wheel drive. You've only got two wheels, so there is none of the craziness of needing to manage a differential. I'll post some of their specs here:
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I get that, they actually put a 65a and 45a controller. It actually tops out at 9200w. My question is not about the controller, its about them using the Samsung 50s cells. How much voltage sag is too much?
 
Xphobe said:
I get that, they actually put a 65a and 45a controller. It actually tops out at 9200w. My question is not about the controller, its about them using the Samsung 50s cells. How much voltage sag is too much?
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Gotcha. Maybe someone who specializes in batteries can tell us.
 
Annieolnie said:
The Wired Predator has two controllers, two individual motor setups. Imagine if you had a little Jeep TJ with a motor in the front and another independent motor in the back and that was how they had decided to handle all- wheel drive. You've only got two wheels, so there is none
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HumanPerson said:
?

Do you mean what is the low voltage cutoff?
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No, the more amps you use the more immediately the voltage drops.
 

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. Nominal specifications (*1)
Item Specification
3.1 Standard
discharge capacity
Typ. 5,000mAh -Charge: 0.5C(2.5A), 4.20V, 0.05C(250mA) cut-off @ RT -Discharge: 0.2C(1A), 2.5V cut-off @ RT
*1C=5.000mA
3.2 Rated discharge capacity
Min. 4,800mAh
-Charge:1.2C(6A), 4.20V, 0.02C(100mA)cut-off @RT
-Discharge: 10A, 2.5V cut-off @ RT
3.3 Nominal voltage 3.6V
3.4 Standard charge CCCV, 2.5A, 4.20 V, 250mA cut-off
3.5 Rated charge CCCV, 6A, 4.20 V, 100mA cut-off
3.6 Charging time Standard charge : 150min / 250mA cut-off(@ RT)
Rated charge: 100min / 100mA cut-off(@ RT)
3.7 Max. continuous discharge
(Surface temperature)
25A(Without temperature cut)
45A(With 80℃ temperature cut)
3.8 Max. charge current 10A (for step charge)
6A (continuous charge)
3.9 Discharge cut-off voltage 2.5V (End of discharge)
3.10 Cycle life
① Capacity ≥ 2,940mAh @ after 250cycles
(60% of the standard capacity @ RT) - Charge : 6A, 4.20V, CCCV 100mA cut-off @ RT - Discharge: 25A , 2.5V cut-off @ RT
② Capacity ≥ 2,940mAh @ after 100cycles
(60% of the standard capacity @ RT) - Charge : 6A, 4.20V, CCCV 100mA cut-off @ RT - Discharge: 45A, 2.5V cut-off
(80℃ cut-off, re-discharge release < 50℃) @ RT

So, at the rated capacities both batteries can provide up to 4900 watts without issue. However, apparently the batteries can discharge up to 45 amps per cell with reduced life cycle which would provide up to about 22000 watts. At this rate cycle life is down to 100 cycles. Bottom line is if you hammer this bike at full power continuously your batteries will not last long in terms of cycle life or run time. Running off of one battery seems like a mistake unless you seriously dial the power back. Disclosure- My math or interoperation of the specifications could be off, I'm no expert.
 
This isn't my area of expertise, but voltage sag has to do with peak amps and once again comes down to how the controllers handle that spike in current. Supposedly, the predator has a new design of controller that can mitigate sudden peaks by utilizing current chopping, which I guess is a new method of amp management. Until someone buys one of their controllers and takes it apart, we may not really know.
 
Glenn Goodlett said:
. Nominal specifications (*1)
Item Specification
3.1 Standard
discharge capacity
Typ. 5,000mAh -Charge: 0.5C(2.5A), 4.20V, 0.05C(250mA) cut-off @ RT -Discharge: 0.2C(1A), 2.5V cut-off @ RT
*1C=5.000mA
3.2 Rated discharge capacity
Min. 4,800mAh
-Charge:1.2C(6A), 4.20V, 0.02C(100mA)cut-off @RT
-Discharge: 10A, 2.5V cut-off @ RT
3.3 Nominal voltage 3.6V
3.4 Standard charge CCCV, 2.5A, 4.20 V, 250mA cut-off
3.5 Rated charge CCCV, 6A, 4.20 V, 100mA cut-off
3.6 Charging time Standard charge : 150min / 250mA cut-off(@ RT)
Rated charge: 100min / 100mA cut-off(@ RT)
3.7 Max. continuous discharge
(Surface temperature)
25A(Without temperature cut)
45A(With 80℃ temperature cut)
3.8 Max. charge current 10A (for step charge)
6A (continuous charge)
3.9 Discharge cut-off voltage 2.5V (End of discharge)
3.10 Cycle life
① Capacity ≥ 2,940mAh @ after 250cycles
(60% of the standard capacity @ RT) - Charge : 6A, 4.20V, CCCV 100mA cut-off @ RT - Discharge: 25A , 2.5V cut-off @ RT
② Capacity ≥ 2,940mAh @ after 100cycles
(60% of the standard capacity @ RT) - Charge : 6A, 4.20V, CCCV 100mA cut-off @ RT - Discharge: 45A, 2.5V cut-off
(80℃ cut-off, re-discharge release < 50℃) @ RT

So, at the rated capacities both batteries can provide up to 4900 watts without issue. However, apparently the batteries can discharge up to 45 amps per cell with reduced life cycle which would provide up to about 22000 watts. At this rate cycle life is down to 100 cycles. Bottom line is if you hammer this bike at full power continuously your batteries will not last long in terms of cycle life or run time. Running off of one battery seems like a mistake unless you seriously dial the power back. Disclosure- My math or interoperation of the specifications could be off, I'm no expert.
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That is my thinking too. All of the test results also show the 50S getting close to 90°c under a sustained 25a draw.
 
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