Will your e-bike still function in 10 years?

[HumanPerson]

like fireworks lol
am glad yur ok bro

 

[George Mann]

My 2017 Raleigh Retroglide iE was made non-functional as an e-bike when its battery died.

There are no available replacements, and no one will rebuild it.

Luckily, it still functions fine as a regular bike.

 

[Vailen]

My 2017 Raleigh Retroglide iE was made non-functional as an e-bike when its battery died.

There are no available replacements, and no one will rebuild it.

I sincerely appreciate you sharing your experience. You are not the first person I have encountered whose e-bike no longer functions. Fortunately, you can still ride your Retroglide like a non-e-bike.

The more of these stories I hear, the more I am moving towards a DIY setup. That is, buy an analog bike and buy a 3rd party motor and battery kit. The bike will not look as "clean" as an e-bike with all of the parts & wires integrated into the frame, but if a battery or motor fails there are plenty in the DIY market to choose from.

 

[DieselTech]

My 2017 Raleigh Retroglide iE was made non-functional as an e-bike when its battery died.

There are no available replacements, and no one will rebuild it.

Luckily, it still functions fine as a regular bike.

Check with Batterys+bulbs if you got a store near by. They have always done excellent at the li-ion batts I had rebuilt.

 

[George Mann]

I sincerely appreciate you sharing your experience. You are not the first person I have encountered whose e-bike no longer functions. Fortunately, you can still ride your Retroglide like a non-e-bike.

The more of these stories I hear, the more I am moving towards a DIY setup. That is, buy an analog bike and buy a 3rd party motor and battery kit. The bike will not look as "clean" as an e-bike with all of the parts & wires integrated into the frame, but if a battery or motor fails there are plenty in the DIY market to choose from.

I actually bought this bike with the dead battery pack for $200 ($2000 retail) with the hope of rebuilding it.

But the pandemic put the few people that could out of business.

It is otherwise in excellent condition.

 

[George Mann]

Check with Batterys+bulbs if you got a store near by. They have always done excellent at the li-ion batts I had rebuilt.

The stores in Denver won't touch them.

 

[TylerJones3194]

Hello everyone. I have been studying e-bikes for a month now. I have a question I am hoping to discuss with current or future e-bike owners. Has anyone wondered whether their investment in an e-bike will still be viable after 10 years? In other words, will the motor and battery you purchased as part of the bike still be available long after the bike you purchased has been discontinued?

I held onto my last MTB for 27 years. Although it was outdated, I could still ride, and replacement bike parts are widely available. This availability also applies to e-bikes. Parts like cranks, cassettes, grips, handlebars, front suspension, etc., are all easy to find. However, 2 components on an e-bike may not be available in the distant future: the motor and the battery.

Batteries that are mounted inside the frame of any manufacturer’s bike is proprietary. Therefore, after the bike is discontinued, how long can you depend on the manufacturer to continue making the specific battery you need to mount inside the frame? I have confirmed that some manufacturers already stopped making the in-frame battery for multiple models in their line of e-bikes that have been discontinued. Once they deplete their stock of batteries, those owners will not be able to replace their battery once it fails, and batteries have a finite lifespan.

Motors that require specially designed bike frames for mounting, like the Bafang M620, is even more problematic. What happens when the M620 is discontinued, and parts become hard to find? Unless you are really good at using an engineering CAD program, designing the replacement parts yourself, and e-mail the files to a machine shop that will make them for you (which will not be cheap), then the very expensive e-bike you purchased long ago has become completely useless. Remember that these bike frames do not have traditional bottom brackets where you can mount cranks and pedals. Rather, when you remove the motor, you essentially have a giant hole, and no other motor could be mounted in its place.

The DIY community has an advantage: they convert their analog bikes into e-bikes. The battery is mounted outside the frame. If the motor or battery fails, they find parts and repair their motors as needed and the battery is much more easily replaced. Many of these motors, like the Bafang BBSHD or the CYC X1 Pro, can be connected to any battery as long as the watts/volts/amps specifications are compatible. These motors fit inside a standard bottom bracket found in any analog bike. But most people who purchase e-bikes do not go this route. Rather, they just buy a complete e-bike with an integrated motor and battery.

If you buy a cheaper e-bike, let’s say between $1,000 and $2,000, then your investment may seem more reasonable. But multiply that by purchasing another e-bike for your spouse and children, then the thought of going through this again just because of a motor or battery failure after 5 or 10 years seems ridiculous. (Buying a new e-bike for your child because they have grown up and are now into mountain biking vs casual riding is reasonable.) Even worse, for people who want to invest in a more advanced e-bike that costs more than $4,000, and your motor and/or battery needs replacing but none are available after 10 years, then the initial investment you made becomes much more problematic. Unless I win Powerball, I would not want to spend another $4,000 a decade later.

My question is: has anyone in this community ever consider this? Have you ever thought about the cost of replacing your entire e-bike after a decade due the company not supporting the motor and/or battery since the model you bought has been discontinued? How do you feel about this new limitation that essentially did not exist when we purchased analog bikes? I am very interested in hearing your opinions.

Well this might help, a costumer today came in with a blix cargo bike which he picked up used for 1200, he used it for about 500 miles then put it in a storage unit for 3 years while he was living up north. He wanted us to clean it up repair anything wrong with and test both batteries, after looking everything over it would cost him 1700+ to get it fully serviced, needed 2 new batteries all cables replaced including wiring harness, new spokes in f&r, tires and tubes +labor . For $2200 you can get a new 2024 or 2700 for the one he's had but the newer model. So to answer your question I don't think people think into the future as far as longevity and cost to fix, but this was the owners fault he stored it for too long and has chlorine in the unit as well which destroyed everything. Professional opinion is to get a ebike with a solid frame and good components, also choose a company that when they upgrade their models the new parts are interchangable like Aventon, and expect things like batteries to fail after a few years.

 

[Vailen]

choose a company that when they upgrade their models the new parts are interchangable like Aventon

I had no idea Aventon attempts to "future proof" their bikes by offering interchangeable parts. If this applies to the motor and battery, then they have distinguished themselves from over two dozen manufacturers I have researched.

 

[smutboy]

Yeah I was reading that in New York they banned all ebikes that are not UL Listed. Due to increased fire hazards.

no they did not ban them outright just banned selling them in nyc.

 

[Seaguy]

I am definitely part of the diy camp. It's important to me to know how my bike works. And to know that I can buy generic parts. However, my first conversion was a tongsheng which I completely love but which is now the next thing to an orphan. It's the wild west out there now as far as e bikes go, Everything is developing so fast that obsolescence is gonna do its job even if the companies don't outright go bankrupt.

Having said that, I have avoided so much use of my car and had so much fun using my e bikes and such a fantastic learning experience that if the tongsheng blew up tomorrow and I couldn't service it I would still be glad I did it.

My latest bike is a CYC photon and of course. I'm hoping for the best, That it will be around for a while. In the meantime, I plan on riding both the bikes into the ground and living it up while the living is good.

 

[Mlsphd]

You raise some very valid points. My 1973 Schwinn Paramount, custom built to my order, is still imminently rideable. However, my 75 year old body, with some replacement parts (hip, heart blood vessels, etc.) is not nearly as capable of the challenging rides on that bike. Enter the game changer e-bike. My Cannondale with Mahle motor and internal battery has many unique components and, regrettably, planned obsolescence. However, should I still be around and capable in 10 years and at age 85, I will gladly spend some of my Childrens’ inheritance on a new and no doubt better ebike. PS-Mahle x-35 motor has a feature on the the app that pairs with my polar HR monitor and automatically adjusts the boost based on my heart rate. It is an awesome feature!!! Priceless!!

 

[TylerJones3194]

I had no idea Aventon attempts to "future proof" their bikes by offering interchangeable parts. If this applies to the motor and battery, then they have distinguished themselves from over two dozen manufacturers I have researche

I had no idea Aventon attempts to "future proof" their bikes by offering interchangeable parts. If this applies to the motor and battery, then they have distinguished themselves from over two dozen manufacturers I have researched.

Controller / display & software, guy had cracked his original pace display which was out dated compared to the new ones and replaced it with the 500.3 display. I'm just saying don't get a 800 Amazon bike and expect it to last 5-10 years and good luck getting parts. Letric, velotric, Aventon, magnum, rad power, addmotor are all company's that I've personally never had issues with warranty work.

 

[Vailen]

PS-Mahle x-35 motor has a feature on the the app that pairs with my polar HR monitor and automatically adjusts the boost based on my heart rate. It is an awesome feature!!! Priceless!!

Adjusting motor assistance based on heartrate? What an awesome function! Thanks for sharing! And yes... spend some of that inheritance money on a new e-bike. Enjoy your final years riding, just as much as you enjoyed riding back in 1973. You deserve it!

 

[heybikerider]

New York has banned the sale of e-bikes that are not UL listed. Many states are following New York's example and introducing legislation. We should expect all 50 states to pass similar laws in the near future.

Perhaps then we will see safer ebikes and less battery fires.

 

[pagheca]

there is another aspect to consider: sustainability.

One of the reasons why I, and presumably many others here, use e-bikes is also their minimal environmental impact. While I have no idea what the LCA (Life-cycle assessment) of an ebike is, I assume it is orders of magnitude less than any other private (and perhaps even public) mean of transport. However, if its average lifespan is limited through the unavailability of replacement parts, there is a risk of artificially doubling or tripling it.

 

[ronaldsauve]

Hello everyone. I have been studying e-bikes for a month now. I have a question I am hoping to discuss with current or future e-bike owners. Has anyone wondered whether their investment in an e-bike will still be viable after 10 years? In other words, will the motor and battery you purchased as part of the bike still be available long after the bike you purchased has been discontinued?

I held onto my last MTB for 27 years. Although it was outdated, I could still ride, and replacement bike parts are widely available. This availability also applies to e-bikes. Parts like cranks, cassettes, grips, handlebars, front suspension, etc., are all easy to find. However, 2 components on an e-bike may not be available in the distant future: the motor and the battery.

Batteries that are mounted inside the frame of any manufacturer’s bike is proprietary. Therefore, after the bike is discontinued, how long can you depend on the manufacturer to continue making the specific battery you need to mount inside the frame? I have confirmed that some manufacturers already stopped making the in-frame battery for multiple models in their line of e-bikes that have been discontinued. Once they deplete their stock of batteries, those owners will not be able to replace their battery once it fails, and batteries have a finite lifespan.

Motors that require specially designed bike frames for mounting, like the Bafang M620, is even more problematic. What happens when the M620 is discontinued, and parts become hard to find? Unless you are really good at using an engineering CAD program, designing the replacement parts yourself, and e-mail the files to a machine shop that will make them for you (which will not be cheap), then the very expensive e-bike you purchased long ago has become completely useless. Remember that these bike frames do not have traditional bottom brackets where you can mount cranks and pedals. Rather, when you remove the motor, you essentially have a giant hole, and no other motor could be mounted in its place.

The DIY community has an advantage: they convert their analog bikes into e-bikes. The battery is mounted outside the frame. If the motor or battery fails, they find parts and repair their motors as needed and the battery is much more easily replaced. Many of these motors, like the Bafang BBSHD or the CYC X1 Pro, can be connected to any battery as long as the watts/volts/amps specifications are compatible. These motors fit inside a standard bottom bracket found in any analog bike. But most people who purchase e-bikes do not go this route. Rather, they just buy a complete e-bike with an integrated motor and battery.

If you buy a cheaper e-bike, let’s say between $1,000 and $2,000, then your investment may seem more reasonable. But multiply that by purchasing another e-bike for your spouse and children, then the thought of going through this again just because of a motor or battery failure after 5 or 10 years seems ridiculous. (Buying a new e-bike for your child because they have grown up and are now into mountain biking vs casual riding is reasonable.) Even worse, for people who want to invest in a more advanced e-bike that costs more than $4,000, and your motor and/or battery needs replacing but none are available after 10 years, then the initial investment you made becomes much more problematic. Unless I win Powerball, I would not want to spend another $4,000 a decade later.

My question is: has anyone in this community ever consider this? Have you ever thought about the cost of replacing your entire e-bike after a decade due the company not supporting the motor and/or battery since the model you bought has been discontinued? How do you feel about this new limitation that essentially did not exist when we purchased analog bikes? I am very interested in hearing your opinions.

You make a very good point, or points. I have thought a lot about that very same topic. My reason is that I’m 74, soon to be 75 next month. I’m in reasonably good physical shape right now, but who is to say that I will continue to be? Because of that reason only, I am strongly considering a high quality electric bike, but only from reputable and well established manufacturer. And I would be using it for transportation, and hauling the weight of groceries and other things, which would be much easier with an e-bike. But when I consider your point(s) it gives me pause. Yes, the bike and its components may, or may not last longer than I will. But considering the points you’ve made, I also consider whether I should get a high quality analog bike instead. When I do, I strongly favor a bike like the Priority 600. Why? Basically, it comes down to a couple points, 1. It has a 12 speed pinion transmission with a 600 degree spread in gearing, which gives me a very wide range of evenly spaced gears, equivalent to a 30 speed bike, which among other things makes for easier climbing, no matter what shape I’m in. 2. Ease of maintenance, although I have a very long record of experience building and maintaining bikes, (I’ve always loved that as much as actually riding), the ease of maintenance with a pinion transmission, only requiring an easily done oil change every 10,000 k, and belt drive, is very appealing to me. Add to that things like how the bike is set up with a dynamo for lighting, and ergonomic factors like its handlebar grips, and I lean strongly toward this bike. I’m still thinking about it, and vacillating. We’ll see where I end up.

 

[Vailen]

My reason is that I’m 74, soon to be 75 next month. I’m in reasonably good physical shape right now, but who is to say that I will continue to be?

I am 54 years old. I am hoping to be riding through my late 80s if I can. Thus, planning to purchase a high-end bike at this point in my career needs to last 25 to 30 years. Once I retire, I will not be able to afford another high-end bike. Adopting a DIY approach, I can replace motors and batteries when necessary, without worry about availability. The bike frame itself can last decades and, like you, I will replace standard bike parts when needed and they are always available.

The Pinion integrated gearing system with a belt drive is really impressive. I almost adopted this approach myself, specifically the P 1.18. These gearboxes are not motors, so it's lifespan should be considerably longer. Even if it failed at some point, you could send in the unit for out-of-warranty repair. I do not believe that gearbox can be repaired by the user (at least at this point in time).

With that being said, if I was 74 years old, my thought process would be a little different. If I assume I can ride until my late 80s, now I have a 15-year projection. That changes the calculus of what kind of bike I would purchase.

What I am thinking about is you hauling groceries without a motor. If you need to climb hills, then you need to be honest with yourself and assess your strength and endurance today, as well as 5 years from now, and 10 years from now. Will you be able to haul groceries or other items as you continue to age? Also, when towing, you have the weight of the items you are carrying and the weight of the trailer. For example, if you had an Eunorau trailer that weighs 36 pounds, then add the weight of groceries that weighs 20 pounds, you are pulling a combined weight of 56 pounds. (That trailer can carry a maximum of 100 pounds.) Pulling that much weight without any motor assist will be challenging. (If you need a larger trailer, you can consider Surly's Bill Trailer that weighs 37 pounds and can carry 300 pounds of cargo.) In any case, pulling 50 pounds will not be easy going uphill without assistance; I am questioning whether I could do it (although I admit I am not in the best of shape right now).

If you have to ascend hills, then purchasing an e-bike is a much easier decision. If you ride only on flat roads, then the decision is a little tougher to make. If you have access to a bike, you may want to try riding between your home and the places you wish to go. Assess your level of fatigue after the ride, and then realize that you will have an increased heartrate and feel more fatigued after towing a trailer the same distance.

 

[m@Robertson]

Perhaps then we will see safer ebikes and less battery fires.

The number of ebike fires is microscopically small as it is.

There are things going on here that magnify a problem that - by and large - exists to a noticeable extent nowhere else.

1. Politicians have latched on to the cause and are ensuring that registered voters in their districts see them Doing Something
2. News media love a good story that they can create shrill headlines over. I did not invent the axiom "if it bleeds it leads" it comes from the industry itself, who makes money this way.
3. New York City (and to a lesser extent New York State) are unique jurisdictions that each have a unique (and differently manifested) prejudice against ebikes. In the case of the state, ebikes are technically ALL illegal, since they must be registered according to state law, but the state admits there is no way to register them. In the case of the city government, there is a long-documented history of it actively attempting to stamp out ebike use, including a vocal campaign by the former mayor, and mass seizures by the police department, who actively set up dragnets to take ebikes off the streets. It was only after a sustained public outcry by some of the lower echelons of elected city government officials, who in conjunction with minority groups, by and large forced the city to backtrack and create an enclave in the state where (only some) ebikes are technically legal.
4. New York City has a large class of very poorly paid gig workers who desperately need ebikes to do their jobs. Further, they have to do whatever it takes to keep the things running, and this includes lowest-cost parts and VERY low cost battery rebuilds by neighborhood handyman-type shops who cobble together batteries from leftover parts. Worse, there exist mass charging stations that are a nightmare to witness. But all of it is there to give New Yorkers the low cost food delivery services they've become accustomed to. the result of all this hard use of cheap parts, and hodgepodge repair... is fires that kill people. And even so, compared to the number of ebikes (there are an estimated 70,000 delivery workers just in NYC), its a tiny number.

You don't see this kind of confluence of events anywhere else in the U.S. Yes UL listing of batteries will become commonplace for manufactured bikes. But... don't mistake what you see in NYC's screaming headlines to be any kind of norm.

 

[ElHegpah]

NYC is not at all normal.

 

[pagheca]

True: 200 fires out of 300,000 per year (a number easily found online) is nothing. However, if ebikes become as widespread as foreseeable in the future, as I hope, the problem of controlling the sale of cheap and dangerous batteries exists, not only in NYC. It would mean a huge number of batteries large enough to cause major damage in any building. Something that frankly I would rather avoid, at least near me... And since, unlike electric vehicles, ebikes are not registered and batteries are often recharged inside apartments, the risk could become untenable anywhere.

I believe, however, that we are thinking a bit "off the cuff." It is clear that if the ebikes phenomenon spreads, in a few years things could change dramatically. We are in the era of the early Nokia cell phones, when these were little more than a copy of a two-way radio. It is likely that things will change dramatically and in a very unpredictable way. A battery with twice the energy density of today's batteries would be enough to make it possible to turn ebikes into vehicles capable of covering ALL daily needs. Electronics could also revolutionize the ebike, perhaps with "smart" functions that we find hard to even imagine today, just as 2 months before the advent of the iphone it was impossible to imagine its functionalities.

It may and may not be liked, but it will probably go that way.