Will NYC's congestion traffic pricing boost bike commuting?

[Smaug]

Congestion Pricing Begins

The first congestion pricing plan in the US went into effect yesterday, with drivers heading into a large swath of Manhattan paying a $9 fee during peak hours. The program, meant to reduce notoriously gridlocked traffic and encourage the use of public transit, is the culmination of an effort first proposed by then-Mayor Michael Bloomberg (R) in 2007. The pricing zone extends from the bottom of Central Park to the island's southern tip (see map), with the charges dropping by 75% during overnight hours. City officials say the toll is expected to generate $500M in revenue annually over the first three years, which will be reinvested in public transportation infrastructure. Manhattan is one of the most densely populated counties in the US—average taxi speeds in midtown sank below 5 mph early last year. One analysis pegged New York City as the world's most congested metro area, with drivers losing 101 hours due to traffic delays each year.

(↑ if this doesn't display so that you can read it, just highlight it with your cursor)

It would be great if they used this $500M to build killer bike infrastructure. (admittedly, I don't know what it's like now, but I bet @"A" can let us know.)

They say the average pace is 5 mph. It's not hard to beat that on a bike, but they'd have to patrol to keep the high speed traffic under control.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Colin1230]

Saw this on the news last night. Pay a nine dollar fee and still only go five miles per hour! That's a big problem that won't be fixed soon. I'm very thankful that I don't live and work in downtown Manhattan.

 

[Smaug]

Saw this on the news last night. Pay a nine dollar fee and still only go five miles per hour! That's a big problem that won't be fixed soon. I'm very thankful that I don't live and work in downtown Manhattan.

If Americans hadn't gotten so soft, riding bikes would be an easy solution.

Also, living AND working in Manhattan would mean no problems. (in that case, it's a very easy walk or bike ride) The problem is that no one can afford to live in Manhattan, but they still work there, so have to commute over from New Jersey.

I had a similar situation 6 years ago. My wife and I's employer was in the fancy north suburbs of Chicago. When we got divorced, neither of us could afford to keep the house on our own. (and we're both mid-career engineers!) She got a small apartment across town, which still cost more than half the mortgage, I rented a townhome four towns away and commuted. My commute went from an 8 minute bike ride to a 35 minute drive, as there was no safe bicycle route, since it was all suburban stroads. No usable public transit, either.

Going into or out of Chicago would've been even worse. At least on the north side, there would be regular city streets to use. South side would be taking one's life in one's hands to not be in a car.

 

[BIG-DUKE-6]

Problem is, 99% of the population in NYC lease/rent and they draw a hard line on e-bikes and batteries inside buildings.

 

[Colin1230]

No, no, no! I am NOT going to get political!

 

[Smaug]

Problem is, 99% of the population in NYC lease/rent and they draw a hard line on e-bikes and batteries inside buildings.

I thought it was OK as long as they are properly 3rd party safety certified?

If not, it will immediately kill the entire eBike market in NYC, which seems to be a bit much...

I suspect if that's the policy, people will just sneak them in anyway.

 

[BIG-DUKE-6]

After the NYC fire last year that started in the Ebike repair shop which killed 10 people in the apartments above it .

That fire opened the doors for the insurance companies to reset rent/ lease policies.

 

[Smaug]

Here's a summary of the latest from NYC Housing Authority:

Rules Regarding Electric Micromobility Vehicles and Devices

Effective March 1, 2024

You may keep or charge bicycles with electric assist (e-bikes) and electric scooters (e-scooters) that are legal to operate in NYC bike lanes in your apartment. However, to ensure the safety of your family and your neighbors, the following precautions must be followed: 

• You may only charge one e-bike, e-scooter, or battery at a time in a NYCHA apartment; 
• Someone 18 years or older must be present and awake in the apartment the entire time the device or battery is charging;  
• The charger must be plugged directly into an electrical wall outlet (extension cords or power strips must not be used); 
• You cannot keep or charge a lithium-ion battery that has been assembled, refurbished, or reconditioned in a way prohibited by NYC law;  
• You cannot charge a lithium-ion battery within five feet of a radiator or any other direct heat source; 
• You cannot charge a lithium-ion battery next to an apartment entrance door or any other place that could prevent escape in the event of a fire; and 
• You cannot charge an e-bike, e-scooter, or its battery in a common area unless that area is designated as a charging area by NYCHA.    

 Electric micromobility vehicles and devices that cannot be operated legally in New York City, or that require DMV registration or a driver’s license to operate, are prohibited in NYCHA buildings (for example, electric mopeds, large electric scooters weighing 100 pounds or more, electric motorcycles, gas-powered vehicles and devices, electric dirt bikes, electric skateboards, Segways, electric hoverboards, electric unicycles, and electric all-terrain vehicles, and their batteries). It is a violation of your lease to keep or charge vehicles and devices like these in NYCHA apartments or common areas. For more information about which types of micromobility devices are allowed or not allowed, please visit on.nyc.gov/info-on-ebikes.

Source: https://nychajournal.nyc/new-rules-regarding-electric-micromobility-vehicles-and-devices/

Direct from the Gov't (longer): https://www.nyc.gov/assets/home/downloads/pdf/office-of-the-mayor/2023/micromobility-action-plan.pdf

Seems pretty reasonable.

eBikes are popular enough now in NYC that a landlord that forbids them might have a hard time getting tenants, esp. if they want top dollar. (which they do)

 

[major masingil]

Most normal people in NYC are already using public transport or bikes to get into Manhattan for work, and its busy AF now.

Fancy people drive their own cars in. Getting into downtown Manhattan by car from Jersey, Long Island, or North of NYC and parking for a day already costs a good bit, what's an extra 9 dollars? Besides a new revenue stream for the city, of course. I'm not saying that has to be a bad thing. They said they're using the funds to improve public transport. That has a nice sound though... an extra 500 mill / year. Thank you. Did someone say gouge? I thought I heard someone say it.

If they really wanted to support a biking culture there, they would need to do 3 things; make it safe for bikers to pass through most of the bridges and tunnels into Manhattan. There is a high population of commuters well within ebike commuting range. They would also need to add good biking throughways, improve the bike parking and security issues in Manhattan. A s**t load of extra bikers in Manhattan will probably cause more gridlock if they dont have a way to traverse the city. That would open a lot of options for people to bike in and feel their property is secure.

NYC would need a large attitude adjustment in business and social culture to accept the changes required for people to bike to work every day. Might not always be sporting that business suit or designer outfit. "The look" is important down there. Those things would certainly help for 3 ish seasons. The winter would be a different story. The air in Manhattan leaves fine black particulate dust on everything.

 

[m@Robertson]

Here's a summary of the latest from NYC Housing Authority:

From what I hear its not the gummint that is prohibiting them in public housing. Its private landlords and tenant associations setting new rules that prohibit residents from keeping the bikes in the building.

I know how much fun dealing with an HOA is on a suburban neighborhood, and further how much fun it is when you have a little old lady who appoints herself the neighborhood enforcer in a condo association (complete with binoculars and spying thru the fence). I can only imagine how much fun it would be to compress the area you have to maneuver into a hallway leading to an elevator, and another hallway leading to your front door.

 

[Smaug]

What's not clear to me is whether the housing authority trumps the landlords wishes or vice versa.
Seems like it's not much of an "authority" if the landlords can do whatever they want...

 

["A"]

I've been commuting in NYC subway system & by bicycle for the last 14 years, 3-4 days a week.
Just in my experience, I've encountered one incident that someone tried to take my folding bike away from me back in 2006.
Quick reflex from cycling in NYC traffic let me chased the person down on the platform, gave him a beat down, kicked him in the nuts and got back on the train with my bike.
These days, popular subway stations are regularly patrolled by cops, I see cop on trains more often than homeless people.
I carry granola bars & other snacks with me just to respond encounters with noisy homeless folks, asking them if they are hungry; that usually get them to calm down and be thankful.
During the pandemic, I encountered some harassment of Asian folks on the train, simply standing up and say nothing was enough to diffuse the situation.
I rode my bike through Lower Manhattan several times this week, chilly, lots of salt on the roads.. but a lot less cars.
Yes, NY has its ugly sides, but that's not the majority of this city.
I have a feeling NYC is not going to stay above water (literally) for very long in the future.
My plan to exit is to move to Costa Rica.

After the NYC fire last year that started in the Ebike repair shop which killed 10 people in the apartments above it .

That fire opened the doors for the insurance companies to reset rent/ lease policies.

BTW, traffic related deaths in NYC are in the thousand annually, not much media coverage there when compared to battery fires.

 

[Colin1230]

Chicago is considering congestion traffic pricing also.

 

[Smaug]

I've been commuting in NYC subway system & by bicycle for the last 14 years, 3-4 days a week.
Just in my experience, I've encountered one incident that someone tried to take my folding bike away from me back in 2006.
Quick reflex from cycling in NYC traffic let me chased the person down on the platform, gave him a beat down, kicked him in the nuts and got back on the train with my bike.

Nice; I love to hear of street justice like this.

These days, popular subway stations are regularly patrolled by cops, I see cop on trains more often than homeless people.
I carry granola bars & other snacks with me just to respond encounters with noisy homeless folks, asking them if they are hungry; that usually get them to calm down and be thankful.

That also rewards the bad behavior. I'd probably carry pepper spray instead.

During the pandemic, I encountered some harassment of Asian folks on the train, simply standing up and say nothing was enough to diffuse the situation.

It seems like, although people can be mean, people also stick up for one another in NYC. I need to visit there one day.

I rode my bike through Lower Manhattan several times this week, chilly, lots of salt on the roads.. but a lot less cars.
Yes, NY has its ugly sides, but that's not the majority of this city.
I have a feeling NYC is not going to stay above water (literally) for very long in the future.
My plan to exit is to move to Costa Rica.

Don't look now, but Costa Rica is also pretty close to sea level. Even if you get a place that's higher up, the ruined infrastructure at lower levels will make life difficult.

Come on up to Wisconsin. We're high enough, very few natural disasters, and the winters are getting warmer all the time!

BTW, traffic related deaths in NYC are in the thousand annually, not much media coverage there when compared to battery fires.

Yep. 6,000 times higher than lithium battery-related fire deaths. We have seemingly given up on reducing traffic deaths though. It would take strict enforcement and higher driving standards. Maybe a bit more social control in the form of good parenting, too.

Chicago is considering congestion traffic pricing also.

Chicago is so corrupt though that any additional tax will never get to where it's supposed to go. :-(

Also, and I think this is ironic, Chicago's population has been in decline for 9 years now, as they city & state are taxing people out; either to Wisconsin or Indiana. (I should know, I'm one of them) The result is that people who can't find a job in their new state still commute to Chicago every day, so that even though Chicago's population is in decline, traffic is WORSE!

 

["A"]

That also rewards the bad behavior. I'd probably carry pepper spray instead.


It seems like, although people can be mean, people also stick up for one another in NYC. I need to visit there one day.

NYC certainly has its own pace, it's not unusual for visitors to have culture shock.
Feed those who are hungry does not reward bad behavior, but using pepper spray certainly do not deescalate a crisis.
Being thirsty, hungry, homeless, loud or suffering from mental health crisis is not a crime, surely doesn't deserve to get pepper sprayed.
Majority of families in the US are living paycheck to paycheck,
just one healthcare crisis away from being broke, even if they have health insurance,
rejected claims can easily send them into collections and debt can snowball beyond their capability to survive,
file bankruptcy, eventually end up on the streets.
I learned to give not because I have much to give,
but because I know exactly how it feels to have nothing.

 

[addertooth]

I would love to visit New York, before it declines to "San Francisco levels".

 

[topstone]

They Make you Laugh, Work from home, so no one uses the tube. Defund the police crime on tube goes up, so no one uses the tube. For example getting shoved onto the tracks or set on fire while you snooze. So their policies have created the 'congestion charge scam'