Why are all my ebikes banned in half the USA?

[m@Robertson]

A Class II bike that has a motor powerful enough that the rider does not need to pedal is in effect a motor-bike and should be subject to the same laws and restrictions. Class I and Class III bikes are not restricted on bike paths or city streets.

My e-bike provides pedal assist for speed up to 22 mph which is good enough for this 74 year old rider. If you want a motor scooter then operate it like a motorcycle and it will be safer for all concerned.

Nonsense. This kind of extremist, backward thinking is effectively saying "I want automobiles to continue to dominate the roads". Pedaled bicycles reached only so far into the population and they aren't going measurably further. The only thing that has spiked bicycle use upwards in American society is... motors, which democratize cycling, but piss off the cyclist curmudgeons who dislike seeing people get benefits without expending effort.

If your bike reaches 22 pedaling, and a Class II reaches 20 with no pedaling, then you are not complaining about speed you are complaining about not seeing people work for it. If Class 3 is safe at 28... 28 is 28 regardless of pedaling or throttling. So the genuine concern is not over safety at all.

Set all that aside and realize that more 2-wheelers mean fewer 4-wheelers. What is good for one person does not mean its good for everyone. Nor is it necessarily smart. For example, my commute included streets like these:

A straight residential road with a 45 mph speed limit. Straight as an arrow. Graded smooth.

Also on the same commute. 50 mph speed limit this time. Pedaling at 28 mph (or throttling) is unnoticed by everyone including the cops when I have worked it up to about 34 (many years and several thousands of miles' direct experience). Shared-use path on the right off the road is good for 20 mph, too.

The existence of primarily throttled ebikes has created a new class of urban mobility. And a change in thinking from young people on adding themselves to the legions of auto owners.

Why more American teenagers are rejecting driver's licenses in favor of e-bikes

There’s a good chance that when you were a teenager, getting your driver’s license was seen as a rite of...

electrek.co

Look at the forest. Not the trees.

 

[Hoggdoc]

There is a hodgepodge of state regulations. Plus county regulations over rail trails. But each trail can have have its own rules, such as only allowing Class 1 bikes, on a local trail here in NH.

These are standards promoted by a national ebike organization, to help legislatures draft regulations.
Are your bikes rated as Class 2 or Class 3? Most regulations use that terminology.
Class 1 has assist up to 20 mph, and no throttle.
Class 2 has assist up to 20 mph, and have a throttle.
Class 3 has assist up to 28 mph, and no throttle, I think.
I think there is a federal legal limit on the 28 mph assist limit.

My ebike kit has assist up to 28mph, and has a throttle. It has a 500 watt motor. I only ride rail trails in New England which are very busy with pedestrians, baby strollers, senior riders, etc, so I ride in the 10-13 mph when riding on a rail trail. If it is not busy I may cruise at 15 mph, but slowing down when passing walkers, etc.

To me it comes down to common courtesy on the trails. I have had fat tire e-bikes come flying past me without any warning, and had a rider yell at my group for not getting over quick enough to pass…our group riders move to single file when a bike wants to pass us. No legislation will control those people and there will never be any enforcement people around when that stuff happens.

So if e-bikes ride with courtesy for all trail riders, I would not be concerned with what Class they/we are riding.

Except for TN…riding in the woods there is risky. I lived there for 5 years. People go into the woods to shoot their guns all year long, any time of day. One guy was shooting at trees, accidentally shot and killed his own son in the woods. You hear gun shots when you go to public state parks there, with no gun range.

The major offenders seem to be young kids that their parents have gotten them these fast bikes and failed to teach them rules of the road. Imagine a 12 years old being the wheel of a Mustang GT with 400 HP.

 

[addertooth]

The major offenders seem to be young kids that their parents have gotten them these fast bikes and failed to teach them rules of the road. Imagine a 12 years old being the wheel of a Mustang GT with 400 HP.

When I was a kid of 12ish, I had a Honda SL70 and rode it everywhere. On a good long run it would hit 50. That would be a more equal comparison with some of the faster eBikes.

 

[Axeman44]

We have Ariel Rider DUAL MOTOR, DUAL BATTERY GRIZZLY in Colorado Springs. There is no problem here. They are very nice bikes.

Affordable, Best in Class E Bikes - Ariel Rider Ebikes

Engineered for power and performance, our electric bikes are ideal for fat tire adventures or cargo-loaded, long-range commuting. 1000w motors, dual motor, dual battery.

arielrider.com

 

[Blue Cheesehead]

Here are 18 states I found so far-

Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Washington, and Wisconsin.

They didn't ban them, they prevent you from using one who has a motor that exceeds 750w which is a LOT of bikes.

Maryland prohibits over 500w..

So I guess these states want you to struggle uphill. That sounds safe.

I am an avid cyclist that due to health issues recently bought a class 3 road e- road bike, so new to the "E" world. I also mountain and fat bike. I have been riding with a power meter for years and also pay attention to what pro riders put out for power. As a 200+ lb guy I can climb steep (15%) grades using about 300-350 watts. It's not fast (4 mph) but it's plenty fast to stay upright. Pro riders can put out 450+/- watts for an hour. The fastest Tour de France sprinters can put out 1,500+ for a few seconds at the finish.

750 watts (1HP) could have someone with little to no skill riding trails at speeds faster than professional riders with excellent bike handling skills. That might not be the safest for the average rider. Another thing to think about is the instant torque of a DC motor. Mashing the throttle with 1,500 watts could easily break the tire loose in many soil conditions, which is bad for trails.

With proper gearing, 750 watts should get a 300 lb person up a 23% grade. Steeper than that it can be difficult to keep the front wheel on the ground.

Here is a weight, power and speed calculator:

An interactive model-based calculator of cycling power vs. speed

An interactive calculator that lets you explore the relationship between cycling power and speed.

www.gribble.org

Watts are a function of torque x RPM. If a motor can only put out so much torque, changing gearing to raise RPM will change the effective watts.

Some laws may be aimed at keeping what are in effect electric motorcycles off trails.

 

[m@Robertson]

With all of that said, we are not seeing these consequences (safety issues) despite almost exponential growth in the use of ebikes. The stats on this that have been run so far bear this out and are not mere internet forum opinions.

On-paper calculations don't take into account the overall reality of the ride (300 lbs and 23%? good god no never going to happen I don't care what the power level is you throw at the effort). Plus there's more to assessing a motor than just reading the numbers. A 250w EU-spec motor vs. a 750w USA-spec motor... compare the two on a ride versus a web site calculator and you'll find precious little difference between them. There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is the shell game manufacturers play with motor ratings vs. true motor output, but bottom line is a 750w motor is not 3x the power output of a 250w motor. Plug yourself into a 1000w BBSHD and you'll find out very quickly its got nothing like the power you would think just looking at that '1000' number.

And no, its not going to break traction. Nor is it going to make a trail rider unsafe. Going up a steep hill is going to be a 4-6 mph affair when blazing hard on pedal assist. 9-10 mph if you are a throttler. You won't get to unsafe speeds until the downhill segment, where the motor is irrelevant and not in use and gravity (or poor judgment) is making the decisions, which has nothing to do with the 'e' in ebike.

 

[Tuckerfan]

In TN the law says that an ebike can't go over 28 MPH, must have a headlight that is visible for 500 feet at night, must have a speedometer, and cannot be ridden on the sidewalk. It doesn't specifically mention the motor size. I had a cop yell at me one day because I wasn't riding my 500 watt ebike on the sidewalk. I enjoyed telling him that doing so was illegal.

My ebike with dual 1500 watt motors comes with handy dandy stickers to put on the motors that list them as being 750 watts. The paperwork literally says they provide these so that "you may enjoy riding your ebike anywhere." I need to put those on the motors, as well as see if the code that allows you to remove the limiter setting, also enables one to lower it. That way I can get the bike down to a limited 28 MPH if I find myself in a situation where I might have to deal with "Imperial entanglements" as they say.

 

[BiggKidd]

My suggestion would be to go to your local office store and have some decals made that say “750 watts”, stick them on the bike, have a beer and relax. Nobody is going to take apart your bike and look up the motor part number.

Ebike Sticker Class Electric Bike Decal Bicycle E-bike Cyclist Gift Bicycle Sticker Ebike Sticker 250w 500w 750w Class 1 2 3 Lover Biking - Etsy

This Stickers item by WawonaWorldwide has 35 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Norcross, GA. Listed on Aug 12, 2024

www.etsy.com

Amazon has them too

 

[BiggKidd]

I got an adapter so I can charge from the free chargers in my city. That’s sort of infrastructure.
There are also bicycle repair stations scattered around the bike trails.
View attachment 14528

How fast does it charge? If your using the factory bike charger I could see a full charge taking 4 to 8 hours and that would suck!

 

[Cybersnow]

So in buying a new e bike or maybe an e bike kit, how do I know how much actual power I will have when going up a steep hill? Do you use Newton Meters? Do you use Wattage? I am not sure that both are not being overstated.

 

[popekr]

Going up hill without pedaling and using just the motor (electric or gas) In my mind would be classified as a dirt bike. I personally think the issue is just because it's electric and has pedals does not necessarily make is a bicycle. I have had people pass me on multi use trails going clearly 30 mph. Some how we have to determine if the bike is still a bicycle or has moved into he category or moped or small motorcycle. I've seen some ebikes with pedals that are never even used. Many bike paths here say ( Massachusetts) "no motorized vehicles" Technically my ebike has a motor so it is motorized. There are so many categories now it's hard to figure it all out. Sometimes I'm surprised there are not more accidents on a bike path, but maybe there are and they are just not reported yet.

 

[Atavar]

How fast does it charge? If your using the factory bike charger I could see a full charge taking 4 to 8 hours and that would suck!

It is using the factory charger, just plugged in to the EV power stand, so charge time is the same.

 

[LightningP38]

I don’t know about other states but here in Minnesota it is 750 watts.

E-Bikes as defined in Minnesota Laws​

	Class 1	Class 2	Class 3
Motor provides assistance ONLY when rider pedals	√		√
Motor can propel bicycle WITHOUT pedaling (throttle on demand)		√
Max speed of motor	20	20	28
Requires speedometer			√
Minimum age of rider is 15 years old	√	√	√
Motor limit of no more than 750 watts	√	√	√

E-bikes allowed on most trails​

Nationwide, there is a growing acceptance of e-bikes on trails. In 2020, the National Park Service finalized regulations that give discretion to park superintendents but generally treat e-bikes similarly to traditional bicycles. Yellowstone, Yosemite, and Voyageurs allow all classes of e-bikes wherever traditional bicycles are allowed.

Similarly, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources allows e-bikes on state trails, although restrictions on class 3 e-bikes, which offer a pedal-assist of up to 28 mph, may be reassessed as they are considering a broad rules update.

As for regional and city trails in Minnesota, most allow all e-bike classes, but some enforce limits on the rider’s speed ranging from 10-20mph

I like this. My ekit is a Class 3, with a 500 watt motor.
If I ride on a trail, leading a group ride, I go 11-13 mph.
If I ride on a road with low traffic, I will go 15-25 mph on the flats, or downhill. Going uphill, I shift down and go 7 mph, with me doing half the work and the motor doing half, as I don’t want to suck all the juice out of the battery.

I can go 35 miles, with me doing half the work, and have a 25% charge remaining on the battery at that point.

I have found this ekit to suit me very well, in a variety of riding conditions.

 

[BiggKidd]

Amazingly Virginia where I live has a maximum of no more than 1000 watts for E-bikes.

 

[PeteCress]

My bike has a motor that's 750w and I don't struggle uphill? But I do have to assist the bike with pedaling which I am fine with because it's exercise. If you do want to go up a hill just under power and not pedaling then I guess that's different. But if I'm not pedaling and getting some benefit I might as well just get on my motorcycle. I don't know a whole lot about e bikes and the motors but since they are fairly new and varied regulations are going to be problematic for a bit.

I weigh about 200# and my loaded trike weighed 107 last time I weighed it.

I have my motor capped at 340 watts and have zero problems going up long steep hills as long as I gear waaaaay down and go slow - as in slightly less than a walking pace.

 

[Ryan48]

I should make some fancy, oem, looking plaques that say '500 watts' and sell them. It isn't like any cop is going to actually inspect the motors.

 

[Unicorn]

I weigh about 200# and my loaded trike weighed 107 last time I weighed it.

I have my motor capped at 340 watts and have zero problems going up long steep hills as long as I gear waaaaay down and go slow - as in slightly less than a walking pace.

I never understood the speed limitation in the CPSA ebike definition. I could mount a 250W mid-drive on a light road bike and gear it to ride at 40 mph without rider input. It makes no sense. I ride with a 1000W mid-drive and program it to 1 h.p. (750W). Stripped down, she will run, loaded with panniers and bar-bags and pulling a loaded trailer, and I need everything she can give me sometimes. I rarely ride at 25 mph fully loaded. Higher speed means a drastically decreased range the more weight you load.

Stay safe.

 

[Polch]

So I thought I did enough research before I bought 4 ebikes.
3 of them have 1000wrms motors (1400w peak) and the 4th has 1500wrms motors (2800w peak).

After owning them for couple months, I did more research and found this which doesn't make sense-

I'm in KY which thankfully I have no issue here.

In Indiana, Tennessee and 20 other states, they are banned on and offroad?!?!

All these sites say basically its fine in these states, etc.

However, when I go to the states actual .gov site, there is a small section that states-

Ebikes MUST retain a motor no larger than 750w.

What does the motor have to do with anything?

I have these bikes so I can traverse hilly terrain...
The controller is what limits speed so what gives here?

To me, that sounds like no engines on the road over 350hp... but we all are governed by the ECM and use common sense to obey traffic laws.

So I'm confused because my bikes are now considered more dangerous than ALL types of motorized vehicles even offroad.

I don't know if I should feel special owning such "dangerous" transportation or appalled at the lack of sense making this prohibition.

Here in georgia, they go by Class 1, Class 2, or Class 3, or in some places Gas motor or not. OF COURSE ALL THE KARENS KNOW THE MODELS FROM 100 YARDS AWAY AND CALL THE POLICE. LOL.

 

[Unicorn]

Here in georgia...

I know several law enforcement officers from both state and local agencies, and they don't care about ebike riders unless they endanger others or themselves on public streets, parks, etc. Besides rare instances where large groups ride illegally en mass, police won't go out looking for ebike riders. But they will stop you if you blast through a large intersection, shaving the end off a long yellow light right in front of them as they should. As they would if the rider was on a standard bike, moped, motorcycle, or pedal car. Cops don't care how big the motor is; they care how fast you are moving and whether you are riding safely. They don't have time to check ebike motors or throttles. It's the insurance companies that care. Get in some altercation that requires a police report while riding an "illegal" ebike, and they will be all over it. The report will have all the necessary data about the bike for an insurance company to come after the rider for negligence. If you are riding a 2000W hub motor ebike and a kid steps out in front of you, guess who will be held responsible? Insurance companies have been doing this for years now. They know the ebike laws better than one.

Stay safe.

 

[Atavar]

But they will stop you if you blast through a large intersection, shaving the end off a long yellow light right in front of them as they should.
Stay safe.

Here in Minnesota they actually changed the law for bicycles making stop signs and red lights equivalent to a yield sign. You can roll through them as long as you look both ways and grant right of way.