spower
New member
That is my question??
Why are all my ebikes banned in half the USA?
- Thread starter shizzzon
- Start date
I have several e-bikes with motors over 750 watts. I have ridden them in several of the states listed and in a number of State and Federal parks. My wife and I tend to go with the flow of traffic and that typically is 12-14 mph. If we come to someone riding slower we let them know which side we are passing on. We have never been stopped or questioned by anybody about the wattage of our motors. In fact the most dangerous riders we have found are young teenagers on high powered e-bikes and the many discourteous road bikers.
On the other hand, this helps keep you Brits more fit, as opposed to us famously fat Americans.
I see videos on GCN where they feature eBikes, and they don't make sense as often, except in really hilly towns.
StoneTower
New member
I live in California which is arguably one of the most liberal and most mismanaged states there is. I find it interesting how people pick a data point and build a whole case around it. "Kid was shot by father in forest." Do you have any idea how many children are backed over by vehicles each year? Killed by farm equipment? It is not the machines that kill people it is the people who are not operating them correctly. Add in some drugs or alcohol and all bets are off. The news is always quick to feature a Tesla crash and ignore the 100's of other automobile accidents that happen. How about all the kids that die while riding bicycles and skateboards each year.
California has a law that if you can use a traditional bicycle on a trail, you can use an E-bike. They can limit the class of E-bike and certain parks have the ability to exclude E-bike if there is a good reason. You can legally use up to a class 2 E-bike on the American River bike trail which is one of the longest paved purpose-built bike trails in the country It is one of the nicest bike trail systems in the nation. It is not just paved over old rail bed. If you are obeying all speed limits and signs, they never seem give you any trouble. I would rather have someone obeying all speed limits and signs on a class 3 bike than someone riding recklessly on a class 1 or 2 E-bike or even a traditional bike.
California has a law that if you can use a traditional bicycle on a trail, you can use an E-bike. They can limit the class of E-bike and certain parks have the ability to exclude E-bike if there is a good reason. You can legally use up to a class 2 E-bike on the American River bike trail which is one of the longest paved purpose-built bike trails in the country It is one of the nicest bike trail systems in the nation. It is not just paved over old rail bed. If you are obeying all speed limits and signs, they never seem give you any trouble. I would rather have someone obeying all speed limits and signs on a class 3 bike than someone riding recklessly on a class 1 or 2 E-bike or even a traditional bike.
And I can skip the ones who fail to ban electric motorcycles (with unused pedals) from cycling trails.
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pagheca
Guest
I know it is useless to mention this, because people cannot really "believe" that what gets you over the "hills" is not power but torque: (Max) power is required to maintain high top speeds, torque is for accelerating and overcoming high inclines.
The problem is having high torque available at low pedaling speeds, the ones you use on very steep climbs (torque x angular speed = power) combined with a good gears set. Very powerful motors often have low torque at low rpm instead. Before buying an ebike, if that is the main requirement we are looking for, better make sure of the motor torque curve, not only the maximum value.
With my EU compliant Trek I can get to the top of any incline here (and I ensure you there are really MANY here!) no problem.
And I do not want a motorcycle: I want an e-bike, aka something that uses an electric motor to help me pedal. Otherwise I would have bought the former.
The problem is having high torque available at low pedaling speeds, the ones you use on very steep climbs (torque x angular speed = power) combined with a good gears set. Very powerful motors often have low torque at low rpm instead. Before buying an ebike, if that is the main requirement we are looking for, better make sure of the motor torque curve, not only the maximum value.
With my EU compliant Trek I can get to the top of any incline here (and I ensure you there are really MANY here!) no problem.
And I do not want a motorcycle: I want an e-bike, aka something that uses an electric motor to help me pedal. Otherwise I would have bought the former.
I'd say most regular folks can reliably put 100-120 watts to the pedals at minimum, with a bit over 200 watts for 10-ish minutes. Downshift enough, and you can go up a lot of hills because you multiply the torque with lower gearing. Add a mid-drive motor with 250 watts and you're doubling your power, job done. A geared hub drive motor of 500 watts has one gear optimized for your entire speed range, so it does not help as much on that 8% grade.
As for "banned" bikes, I'm not aware of any. Most states do regulate mopeds to 2hp (~1500 watts), and no more than 50cc displacement. They are limited to 35mph and some states even prohibit mopeds on roads with speed limits greater than 35mph. Mopeds fall under the "motorized vehicle" category so their operation is limited to roads. As laws catch up to fast progress of ebikes, I imagine we will see another category for fast ebikes that put them together with mopeds and eventually scooters (tags, insurance, road tax), depending on motor wattage.
I limit myself to 15mph on multi-use paths whether on my ebike or normal bicycle, slower around pedestrians, because I know the future of cycling in general depends on public perception.
I limit myself to 15mph on multi-use paths whether on my ebike or normal bicycle, slower around pedestrians, because I know the future of cycling in general depends on public perception.
Exactly, if they start enforcing the wattage limit it will just mean an increase in the popularity of mid drives and a decrease of hub motors.
I have 1000W and 750W mid-drives (both illegal) and never use any where near their output. I'm usually using between 50 and 250 watts according to the display and I'm sometimes riding trails steep enough that it's a real challenge to keep traction and to keep the front wheel in contact with the trail.
The whole thing is stupid though, they don't limit the horsepower that a car or motorcycle can have, there are speed limits and rules that you are supposed to drive by. As long as you are riding safely and carefully why does it matter, and right now for the most part it doesn't. Just don't draw attention to yourself by riding like a jackhole and we will all be alright.
Follow the money. They are gearing up to tax and license/register bikes.
Get ready for mandatory liability insurance too.
All they need to do is define a delimiter to move e-bikes to the realm of motor vehicles.
Get ready for mandatory liability insurance too.
All they need to do is define a delimiter to move e-bikes to the realm of motor vehicles.
"They" are all the government minions seeking ways to increase revenue and control the populace.
Eventually ‘they’ will find ways to tax all motor assisted transportation.
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pagheca
Guest
in Europe - I do not know the situation in the US - billions have been issued as subsidies and contributions for the purchase of BEV. I wonder if at least some of that money had been invested in building infrastructure for (e)bikes and public transportation if it would not have been better.
addertooth
Well-known member
I am a pragmatic realist. I realize the government wants to spend the money somewhere else. They are unlikely to spend the money upgrading and creating bike trails and lanes in ALL of the US cites and small towns.
This means I want a bike which allows me to go fast enough that the cars aren't going 20 MPH faster than me in a 35 MPH zone.
Reality always trumps dreams and aspirations.
I got an adapter so I can charge from the free chargers in my city. That’s sort of infrastructure.
There are also bicycle repair stations scattered around the bike trails.
Here on Oregon you have to 16 years old to ride a Ebike. What BS!!!
I actually agree with some age restrictions for e-bikes, just like for mopeds. I would suggest waiving age restrictions if they pass the drivers training in high school.
I also support helmet and eye protection requirements for minors. Eye protection should be required even for adults.
E-bikes are heavy, fast and can cause significant damage. Tweens and younger are not known for their good judgment.
addertooth
Well-known member
This is probably a generational thing. I grew up riding dirt bikes (much more powerful than eBikes). And yes, I had to ride the streets to get to my favorite motorbike trails. For those of older generations, they tend to be less horrified of the concept of a 12 year old on something similar to an eBike.
But then, we were told to go out and play as soon as the Sun was up, and not come back till the street lights were on (except for lunch). We drank out of garden hoses (because going inside the house for water was "punished" by being given "chores" for interrupting the daytime peace of the parents).
I am not saying we were feral, but we were expected to manage ourselves and our risks. I say, let kids get scuffed up, learn lessons in judgement at the lower speeds of the typical eBike; it will enhance their judgement before they hit adulthood. Lessons are cheaper while you are still on your parent's insurance plan.
Perhaps modern kids are softer and less smart than previous generation, but I tend to believe they are simply "less experienced".
I have no problem with kids getting scuffed up and learning as they go. I too grew up in a small town where we left the house at the break of dawn and headed home when the street lights came on. Broken bones mend, broken sprits not so much.
Having said that, if it were just single vehicle accidents I would agree with you.
Unfortunately all too often e-bike accidents involve a pedestrian, another bike or a motor vehicle. The risk is not to the rider alone.
The damage from a 50+ pound e-bike is significantly more than from a lightweight pedal bike.
Having said that, if it were just single vehicle accidents I would agree with you.
Unfortunately all too often e-bike accidents involve a pedestrian, another bike or a motor vehicle. The risk is not to the rider alone.
The damage from a 50+ pound e-bike is significantly more than from a lightweight pedal bike.
