The eBike arms race is in full swing!

[addertooth]

The arms race for the 40ish MPH eBikes is heating up.

First contender I will mention is Wired freedom. Their first version was a 38 MPH bike, but that was SO two versions ago.

The second contender on this list is eCells, who had a bike with many of the same features as the Wired Freedom, But at a lower total cost. Unlike the Freedom, their controller is weather resistant, and not in a plastic box. eCells claimed this controller configuration ran cooler under high load.

The third player in this game is the Motor Goat v3. It is the third iteration of this family. Motor Goat came out with an optional factory dual battery pack, with a whopping total capacity of 45 Amp Hours (Ah) of capacity. They were unique in this area. They have 203 mm disks and 4 piston brake calipers. Another distinguishing factor. They also (in this moment) hold the highest speed of roughly 45 MPH with a 200 pound rider.

The YouTube channel Citizen Cycles released a video about the NEXT generation of the Wired Freedom. They are going double battery pack from the factory with no increase in price. The combined batteries produce 35 Ah, which is less than the Goat, but still a respectable increase in capacity. Wired also went to a 203mm disk brake rotors with four piston calipers too. They have bumped up the controller power (and is now the same form factor as the eCells controller), and did some upgrades on the motor. Now, it runs about 41 MPH with a 200 pound rider. This is about a 2 MPH increase than the previous version. The Wired Cruiser will be getting a dual suspension with their new frame. They are keeping the price the same as before (but unlike the other two, don't pay shipping).

Meanwhile, Goat has announced they are about to release an even bigger capacity battery for their bike. Further increasing their lead in the capacity/milage game.

There seems to be a lot of competition for this segment of the market. All of these companies are back-ordered. The demand is that high.

We may all end up winners, I can't wait to see who "one-ups" the others in the next month or so. I am shocked (and pleased) by the evolutionary steps these companies are coming out with.

Now for the nay-sayers. It is okay if you don't like fast bikes. Like all powered devices, they have a throttle. Ultimately it is up to the rider to make prudent choices on where they use that speed.

 

[DieselTech]

I had my Freego F3 Pro Max set up hot from the factory. Max voltage & amperage to the dual controllers.

My bike will pull my 140lb light azz to 41-43mph on flat ground. Also if I stay in Pas 2 or 3 I have been getting 111-118miles per charge & still 1-2battery bars remaining.

Have you got your MotorGoat V3 yet?

 

[addertooth]

I had my Freego F3 Pro Max set up hot from the factory. Max voltage & amperage to the dual controllers.

My bike will pull my 140lb light azz to 41-43mph on flat ground. Also if I stay in Pas 2 or 3 I have been getting 111-118miles per charge & still 1-2battery bars remaining.

Have you got your MotorGoat V3 yet?

I won't see it for almost a full month. Shipping from overseas is quite slow and requires significant patience.
Like all these rapidly changing bikes, they keep you on the hook with new upgrades on the bike you are waiting for.

On mine, a second factory battery pack, and front and rear turn signals that blink, as well as an updated controller (higher speed) are the perks for my generation.
I have no clue what the next generation will have (other than even more battery capacity), but I am sure they will be desirable. This is the current way of things.

I can afford to be patient, as the bike I currently have on hand is a rather capable bike.

At the current 2k price point on the upgraded Wired Freedom, it is tempting to put it on order too... but my wife will howl I have too many bikes.
Peace has a price. Often it is the most valuable thing in a man's life.

p.s. That Freego Shotgun Pro Max looks like a kissing cousin to the Goat. How do you like the form factor? I am in unknown territory with the smaller wheels. The current bike I have is a fatwheel 26 inch bike, which is a mountain bike style frame. It climbs over 7-inch curbs with no yanking on the handlebars. I really like the fact the Freego comes with a 55 Ah capacity battery. That is an astounding amount of capacity and range.

 

[DieselTech]

I won't see it for almost a full month. Shipping from overseas is quite slow and requires significant patience.
Like all these rapidly changing bikes, they keep you on the hook with new upgrades on the bike you are waiting for.

On mine, a second factory battery pack, and front and rear turn signals that blink, as well as an updated controller (higher speed) are the perks for my generation.
I have no clue what the next generation will have (other than even more battery capacity), but I am sure they will be desirable. This is the current way of things.

I can afford to be patient, as the bike I currently have on hand is a rather capable bike.

At the current 2k price point on the upgraded Wired Freedom, it is tempting to put it on order too... but my wife will howl I have too many bikes.
Peace has a price. Often it is the most valuable thing in a man's life.

p.s. That Freego Shotgun Pro Max looks like a kissing cousin to the Goat. How do you like the form factor? I am in unknown territory with the smaller wheels. The current bike I have is a fatwheel 26 inch bike, which is a mountain bike style frame. It climbs over 7-inch curbs with no yanking on the handlebars. I really like the fact the Freego comes with a 55 Ah capacity battery. That is an astounding amount of capacity and range.

So far I like the freego. I'm rather vertically challenged & the freego is a bit tall for me.

Personally I feel it is built like a tank & I have been putting it thru a torture test. 2 year warranty on it & I'm putting it thru its paces.

I like the 20" wheel platform for these ebikes. 4 miles down the center of the railroad tracks, will put any bike thru the wringer, but it has not missed a lick. Been a good bike.

Pisses me off, that they already got a bigger badder bike out.

 

[m@Robertson]

Ecells makes a lot of claims on their web site, some of them demonstrably false, and I've been watching them do it for years. Based on that I would trust absolutely nothing they say. Catching them on obvious lies is one thing... what are they lying about that is more subtle, or just beyond my understanding? Maybe nothing but since they lied more than once already, they can't be trusted.

EDIT: I don't say someone is lying lightly. I know thats common on the internet but thats not the case here.

 

[Smaug]

The arms race for the 40ish MPH eBikes is heating up.

...
Now for the nay-sayers. It is okay if you don't like fast bikes. Like all powered devices, they have a throttle. Ultimately it is up to the rider to make prudent choices on where they use that speed.

You're right that the arms race is heating up.

However, these are also not street legal as eBikes and unless they have a VIN, cannot be registered as mopeds or motorcycles either, so these companies are going to sell as many as they can until Johnny Law and Uncle Sam crack down HARD and run them off the market.

That costs money and takes time though, so we're going to see more events like what happened in the Florida Keys lately: a blanket ban on eBikes because of the irresponsible actions of a few.

Sadly, when the laws ARE enforced, the cops are not going to just target the irresponsible riders, but anyone who has an illegal bike or who is using it in an illegal manner.

 

[m@Robertson]

I'm still not buying that. You could almost cut and paste the doom/gloom prognostication a hundred times over the last 10 years and they'd all basically say the same thing. And none of it ever happens.

Isolated, 'specialty' communities like the Florida Keys aren't bellwethers. The trend remains to expand ebike access, not restrict it.

After Woman Dies in Crash, Effort To Let Florida Cities Restrict Ebikes Collapses

The Key Biscayne ban expires after 60 days.

 

[m@Robertson]

On the subject of regulation and my contention that "the sky is not falling", Kyle over at Area 13 did a really good overview on the pending public comment period the CPSC is doing pending a possible regulation revision. I highly recommend reading the actual document although probably its best to let Kyle do the 10,000-foot view first. ESPECIALLY the last comment he highlights which takes a statistical approach that takes into account the massive increase in ebike use versus the accident count.

 

[th 'fern]

I see no difference between a throttled ebike and a moped. Especially those capable of 20+mph, 40mph bicycles are a danger on trails.

Please help me understand.

 

[Smaug]

I see no difference between a throttled ebike and a moped. Especially those capable of 20+mph, 40mph bicycles are a danger on trails.

Please help me understand.

A Class 2 throttled eBike can be ridden on MUPs, if you're responsible. Here, we will not have to worry about being hit by cars, but about hitting inattentive pedestrians and dogs. Also, most throttled eBikes can also be pedaled for exercise; as much or little as you want. A lot of us rarely use the throttle on throttle-capable eBikes. I guess there are some areas that strictly enforce Class 1 only, but very few places have the law enforcement overhead to do that, except where the rider is just being a jerk.

Being able to go where pedestrians go opens up a LOT of options that are not available to mopeds or scooters, which must be licensed and are for on-road use only. From a practical matter, it opens up a lot of shortcuts and saves money in the form of licensing and insuring the vehicle.

I'll give you a quick example: I have an eMoped, a Juiced HyperScrambler 2. My home is at the lower left (SW) of this map; the checkered circle.. When I want to go to the grocery store, (circled in blue) I have two routes:

1. (purple) I can take the main roads, which is 100% legal, but I can't keep up with traffic in a 35 mph zone going up the slight uphill, or
2. I can take the neighborhood street (red east-west leg, 25 mph speed limit) + one less trafficked street (red, north-south leg) 30 and 35 mph areas) with a bike lane and do the last 1/4 mile on the sidewalk. (blue)

I like 2., because I'm not holding up auto traffic at all. When I'm going too slow on that main street, I just go in the bike lane and keep it in the 28 mph range. Then, on the sidewalk, on the really busy street, I go to ECO mode, which only gives enough power to overcome the massive weight of the bike. Then I pedal and I'm only going 10 mph or so. The bike does look like a moped, but no one objects because I'm pedaling and going slowly; slower than I would on a regular bike. If I got in the street, I'd have to make two additional left turns and wait for two additional stop lights, in addition to holding up traffic a bit.

If I were on a licensed moped, Route 1 (purple) would be the quickest, but annoying to other motorists, as I'd still be slowing them down.
On Route 2, I would not have the sidewalk option and would slow down traffic on the street of that blue east-west leg. It's legal, but inconsiderate, in my opinion.

There are many, many such examples. If I was on a Class 2 eBike, I would slow traffic even more by being on the main streets.

If that was a rhetorical question and you're just being cranky and narrow-minded, that's a different story.

 

[th 'fern]

A thorny question for sure.
I concede many situations where a 20mph limit is constraining, such as commuting. No doubt fewer cars commuting is a positive. Beyond those applications, I agree keeping up with road auto traffic feels safer, but at some point it becomes a moped. I ride on lots of 2 lane 35-45mph roads, no way do I want to approach the auto speeds - it's a bicycle not a motorcycle, that's the point.

A year ago I was opposed to any/all licensing requirements - but (at least in my area) the increase in high speed ebikes on trails, both paved and gravel has jumped. Too much to be written off as a couple of bad apples. The worst riders seem to all be non-pedalers, especially when pace lining on gravel.

Give it a few more years and data will indicate if hospital emergency room rate increases/severity due to "bicycle" accidents is a legitimate public issue.

For the record, I hate unnecessary rules and insurance companies - almost as much as irresponsible humans acting recklessly without regard for others, especially when leading to injury to those others.

Thank you for being a responsible ebike owner.

 

[m@Robertson]

I see no difference between a throttled ebike and a moped. Especially those capable of 20+mph, 40mph bicycles are a danger on trails.

Please help me understand.

What is there to understand? The existence of the throttle is irrelevant. Its the rider who dictates performance and its the rider who misbehaves. There are quite literally millions of ebikes with throttles that don't go 40 mph (which I would call a straw man argument as there are so very, very few ebikes that can even reach that speed), never go on trails, never bother anyone etc.

Claiming the existence of a throttle is somehow evil and thus makes the bicycle evil as well is, frankly, backward thinking. No I am not saying that to be obnoxious. I'm stating it as a factual observation. How can this be so? Dial the clock back 100 years. You will read people saying how the use of a derailleur is a cheat. How bicycle riders who use them are soft and unworthy (google Henri Des Grange and you'll see perhaps the most famous of those in cycling history). But here we are a century later and that attitude is so foreign as to be generally accepted as asinine.

Cycling is evolving. Expanding. Growing in ways it was otherwise incapable of. Embrace this, or damn cycling to the margins where it is now and has been for decades.

So far the statistical analysis of the number of ebikes versus the number of accidents and injuries points to the opposite conclusion you are claiming to be inevitable.

 

[th 'fern]

'Evil' was never my word.
Bicycles pedal,
Mopeds = no pedaling.

 

[addertooth]

'Evil' was never my word.
Bicycles pedal,
Mopeds = no pedaling.

You might want to look up the word "Moped" and especially the "ped" part of that word.
A Motorize Pedal bike, is what a Moped is. So yes, you can pedal a Moped (I had an old gasoline one an excessive number of decades ago). Pedaling was unpleasant, but it could be done. This is much like my current eBike, which is not a terribly good pedal bike.
However, it is a good bike to put into PAS mode 3, pedal, and cruise at 21 MPH.

I actually agree with m@Robertson. I view very few hardware contraptions as problematic. I simply view the combination of a human with poor judgement, and any contraption (including a hammer), as problematic.

But then, I view the job of law enforcement is to put rational limits on people who choose to create risks for others.

 

[m@Robertson]

The people who bitched about derailleurs only got traction for a short time until the derailleur became so commonplace people now wonder why anyone would care. Looking at sales figures in the cycling industry, its happening again with electric assist. Trying to shout back the tide is wasted effort now, just as it was then.

Look at the prevalance of the arguments 10 years ago versus now. We are already well along the path towards ubiquity.

 

[Smaug]

A thorny question for sure.
I concede many situations where a 20mph limit is constraining, such as commuting. No doubt fewer cars commuting is a positive. Beyond those applications, I agree keeping up with road auto traffic feels safer, but at some point it becomes a moped. I ride on lots of 2 lane 35-45mph roads, no way do I want to approach the auto speeds - it's a bicycle not a motorcycle, that's the point.

A year ago I was opposed to any/all licensing requirements - but (at least in my area) the increase in high speed ebikes on trails, both paved and gravel has jumped. Too much to be written off as a couple of bad apples. The worst riders seem to all be non-pedalers, especially when pace lining on gravel.

Give it a few more years and data will indicate if hospital emergency room rate increases/severity due to "bicycle" accidents is a legitimate public issue.

For the record, I hate unnecessary rules and insurance companies - almost as much as irresponsible humans acting recklessly without regard for others, especially when leading to injury to those others.

Thank you for being a responsible ebike owner.

You make some good points here.

I guess I would question whether licensing makes a moped safer than a bicycle. This assumption is there from the government, they're effectively saying: "I see you people are hurting yourselves and each other with this new technology. I guess we will have to step in and regulate it."

The problem in the US right now is that we are writing laws but not really enforcing them, as we only have enough law enforcement for the severe crimes. (due to lack of morals and parenting over the past couple decades) Things work better when laws are enforced. By not enforcing them, they are making it harder on law-abiding citizens while the criminals ruin everything.

On the other hand, a licensed vehicle has to meet certain standards in order to be licensed, re. lighting and brakes and so forth.

 

[m@Robertson]

On the other hand, a licensed vehicle has to meet certain standards in order to be licensed, re. lighting and brakes and so forth.

In some ways, the market is self-correcting for this. Look at hydraulic brakes. A couple of years ago Rad Power Bikes and just about every other low cost direct-to-consumer ebike was using mechanical, cabled brakes. Which even on a tame, 20 mph ebike is a woefully inadequate solution thanks to the heavy nature of the bike, the tending-to-be-heavier rider, and the higher average speed of the bike versus a light bike being ridden by a fit rider ad half that speed.

A horrific crash and a well-publicized, high profile lawsuit made it clear what was coming for every seller who was cutting this corner, and we almost immediately saw a shift to hydraulic brakes on even the cheapest ebikes. Lectric even started offering free brake replacements to some existing customers. This year's bugaboo is battery safety, and that is also on a steady march towards improvement. The Chinese government even implemented a safety standard, and in that country you can go to prison or even be sentenced to death for disobedience to laws that protect the public. So we'll see compliance fairly quickly, and even though that law only applies to domestic production, it is expected to make little sense to keep two production lines going so export products will likely benefit as well.

@Smaug as you know my stock answer is

The sky is not falling

when we see these recurring doom/gloom prognostications. These things will work themselves out. In part because the toothpaste is long since out of the tube and there is so much out there in the world already - and the general public is so much in favor of it - that no politician is going to pick that hill to die on (and those that have dipped their toes into that water have already gotten smacked for it).

https://electrek.co/2023/11/10/bike-shop-brands-giving-e-bike-riders-throttles/
https://www.govtech.com/transportation/effort-by-florida-cities-to-restrict-e-bikes-faces-collapse

 

[JohnnyBeans]

I see no difference between a throttled ebike and a moped. Especially those capable of 20+mph, 40mph bicycles are a danger on trails.

Please help me understand.

I recently bought a tenways 800 more or less exclusively for riding on greenways near me. I’m keeping my Kepler for backroads and such. The tenways is torque sensor for more exercise and mostly lower speed. No throttle. Very quiet.
Also looks like a “real bike”.
Doesn’t scare people.
I like riding it but the Kepler is still the go-to for hills, off road, city streets, etc.

 

[biknut]

Like I always say, 20 mph eBikes are dangerous on the street. All eBikes should be allowed to go the posted speed limit for safety reasons. If that requires licensing so be it. licensing is not an obstacle, I got my mc license when I was 15.

 

[Bobdabuilder]

Like I always say, 20 mph eBikes are dangerous on the street. All eBikes should be allowed to go the posted speed limit for safety reasons. If that requires licensing so be it. licensing is not an obstacle, I got my mc license when I was 15.

I bought a ebike because no license. I want to explore off road trails in parks and greenways. I don't think licensed vehicles are allowed in those places. Nice to ride in the bike lane in town too.