Seeking Guidance on Controller Replacement

She did have an electrician test the controller, and if you read over this thread, you will find that the company is defunct. I'd also like to add, you better put your flack jacket on before you start telling people to remove their throttle.
I did not say everybody should remove their throttle, but maybe her son should as he does not yet know how to manage it. It sounds like this should be taken to an expert like she asked, to get it repaired and instructions how not to not damage it again. I am not convinced that an “electrician” is the right expert for this job, an electronics repair person would be better. My electrician skills are useful, but my limited knowledge of electronics pretty much dead ends my ability to complete the diagnosis. She needs an Ebike experienced technician to sort it out. From experience I have wasted a lot of money just guessing and replacing. Since the company is defunct it goes forward as a custom E-bike, as are most of mine, (I have only one factory bike and I upgraded the controller/display to KT to get a real display) Replacing the whole system as described is sound, but that phase wire fault could mean a damaged overheated motor, it would be cheaper in the long run to replace the entire system including the motor if so. Perhaps all the components in the system are substandard, a Bafang or other quality hub might have shut itself off before this, or it could have handled the full 20 amp load longer. Or did the cheap controller actually limit it to 20 amps?

Finally, I have throttles, but I am into using motors to assist my pedaling, where I live there are many hills I would walk without my motors. I use the throttle primarily to assist launching recumbents up hill and other difficult situations with the bikes.

As a young person who saved up his money to buy an e-bike he needs training on the use of electric motors, and or experience. This is the experience version. He spent his money and now he has a broken bike. Without the throttle he may have discovered his bike is underpowered but he would likely still have it to use. That his mother is running along beside him sounds like he might be quite young.
 
I did not say everybody should remove their throttle, but maybe her son should as he does not yet know how to manage it. It sounds like this should be taken to an expert like she asked, to get it repaired and instructions how not to not damage it again. I am not convinced that an “electrician” is the right expert for this job, an electronics repair person would be better. My electrician skills are useful, but my limited knowledge of electronics pretty much dead ends my ability to complete the diagnosis. She needs an Ebike experienced technician to sort it out. From experience I have wasted a lot of money just guessing and replacing. Since the company is defunct it goes forward as a custom E-bike, as are most of mine, (I have only one factory bike and I upgraded the controller/display to KT to get a real display) Replacing the whole system as described is sound, but that phase wire fault could mean a damaged overheated motor, it would be cheaper in the long run to replace the entire system including the motor if so. Perhaps all the components in the system are substandard, a Bafang or other quality hub might have shut itself off before this, or it could have handled the full 20 amp load longer. Or did the cheap controller actually limit it to 20 amps?

Finally, I have throttles, but I am into using motors to assist my pedaling, where I live there are many hills I would walk without my motors. I use the throttle primarily to assist launching recumbents up hill and other difficult situations with the bikes.

As a young person who saved up his money to buy an e-bike he needs training on the use of electric motors, and or experience. This is the experience version. He spent his money and now he has a broken bike. Without the throttle he may have discovered his bike is underpowered but he would likely still have it to use. That his mother is running along beside him sounds like he might be quite young.
He is fourteen and the ebike in question is a moped style, so he knew what he wanted. If the motor is bad, we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
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One thing to keep in mind is the possibility that one or more of the motor's internal phase sensors (Hall effect sensors) failed from too much heat, which could also cause the phase-related error code. These are fairly cheap and easy to test (using the wires/pins in the cable coming out of the motor) and replace for someone with the right skills. There are YouTube videos on how to do this. If it turns out that one of the hall effect sensors failed, replace all of them while working inside the motor. There should be 3 or 4 of them.
Sorry to pile on to the already overwhelming amount of information, it is one of the possibilities for failure and cheaper than buying a new motor.
Would you be able to point me to some videos on this topic?
 
FYI 1 To 4 (1T4) means 1 cable, then it splits to display, throttle, and two brake cutoff connectors. 1T2 means display and throttle only. You can answer the question as to which is best for you by looking at your brake lever cutoff connections. Are they yellow? Get the 1T2 because they will not work with the TBK 1T4. Are they red? Buy the 1T4 they will connect right up. ALSO once you get past the basics here and get the bike wired back up and running, if you have yellow connectors on the levers you can experiment by buying a 1T4 that has yellow brake connectors from a different seller. But lets let that one go for now and just get the bike up and running.

Well, the wiring harness IS the 'cable' you list above. The other option on the TBK page is the '9 pins' which is the cable that goes to the motor from the controller. It is available in four lengths. Get out a tape measure and see what you would need, bearing in mind the controller itself has some cable length on it, as does the motor. HOWEVER, its likely your existing extension cable that is already built into (or onto) the bike will work just fine as-is. But buy a replacement anyway. If the existing cable works sock the new one away for a rainy day. Note that it is possible your entire problem is a bad 9-pin cable and just replacing that cable will fix the problem. But just replacing the cable (and paying for shipping for the one cable) instead of doing this larger process is a part of a potentially much longer (and more expensive in the long run) trial-and-error process. Going with a new controller and ancillary bits from the get-go gets the job done in one shot.

That should work perfectly.

The one you have picked out is completely wrong! Look at the plug: Its a JST pin connector ands not a HIGO/Julet. What you want instead is a yellow HIGO connection. And the one that is sold with the controller you are already buying us $4 versus the $12.80 wrong one from Amazon. Add the PAS sensor to your purchase at TBK.

That linked one is the right connector and the same LCD4 I prefer, but its fifty bucks, which is double the cost it should be, almost. Here again, the TBK controller has a Display option, which lets you add the LCD4 for $21. Thats more like it.

Once you get everything situated, you may need some HIGO extension cables to get everything to reach. Did I link those in this thread yet? Don't worry about them for now. They are cheap, available on Amazon and you don't know if you need any of them yet.
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m@ how does this look?
 
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@Amy Rides one more thing. Scroll up and look at that pic of the two controllers sitting side by side in my driveway. See how the power plugs have been made into XT90's? You are going to have to do the same thing with an XT60 pigtail. You can get an XT60 pigtail on Amazon (make sure you buy the 12ga wired version not the 14).

And how do you make that nice neat connection like I did? I've got a full tutorial on that here:

https://talesontwowheels.com/2022/0...ble-electrical-crimp-connections-part-1-of-2/
Or ring up that electrician and pay them to do it. If you have no tools thats the way you want to go unless you want to acquire a new skill.
Thank you m@ for pointing me to the tutorial. For the xt60 pigtail, is this correct: https://www.amazon.ca/GINTOOYUN-Con...167447&sprefix=xt60+pigtail+12,aps,176&sr=8-7
 
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I did not say everybody should remove their throttle, but maybe her son should as he does not yet know how to manage it.
Or maybe he does. You don't know one way or the other, right?
It sounds like this should be taken to an expert like she asked, to get it repaired and instructions how not to not damage it again.
And where would one of those be?
I am not convinced that an “electrician” is the right expert for this job, an electronics repair person would be better. My electrician skills are useful, but my limited knowledge of electronics pretty much dead ends my ability to complete the diagnosis. She needs an Ebike experienced technician to sort it out.
Again... where are experienced 'technicians' found (besides internet fora)? What you are describing only exists for name-brand bikes with dealer networks. Direct-to-consumer ebikes like what we are discussing here are DIY-serviced given the issues that exist all over the USA insofar as the availability of local bike shops (and even ebike specialty shops) taking on ebikes for repair is concerned.
From experience I have wasted a lot of money just guessing and replacing ... it would be cheaper in the long run to replace the entire system including the motor if so.
But that is a guess that the motor has a fault.
As a young person who saved up his money to buy an e-bike he needs training on the use of electric motors, and or experience. This is the experience version. He spent his money and now he has a broken bike. Without the throttle he may have discovered his bike is underpowered but he would likely still have it to use. That his mother is running along beside him sounds like he might be quite young.
This is all irrelevant to the issue at hand.

What we're discussing here is a least-cost-first approach. Since we already have reasonable not-internet, on-site guidance that there is a fault in the controller, that informs the known-imperfect process. We've already noted the problem could be the motor. But replacing the motor core pre-emptively is the most expensive choice, and premature. Especially given the typical frequency of blown controllers vs. blown motors. If the controller is bad, we've replaced it. If the bike runs we can call it a day. If not THEN its time to look at spending more money.

Would you be able to point me to some videos on this topic?
The effort necessary to start replacing hall sensor wires (and figuring out whether something on the board has gone bad too, or the coils have been cooked) is not beginner-level. I would recommend this is not something you should get into unless, as I think we've noted before - you are looking to acquire a new skill set.
 
Those look like best-case assuming you get whats in the pics.
  • The connectors are branded 'Amass' which is the top name-brand for such things.
  • The connectors are the version that has the cable end covering behind the connector (the grey part)
  • 12 gauge wire which for me is preferable. You will probably want a step-down butt-end connector as described in that tutorial as most likely the KT controller's power connection is only 14 gauge. That would be the yellow one in the pic of the step-down connectors.
You could also do 14 gauge which is unlikely to be any sort of problem. I just prefer the beefier wiring. The KT controller has thinner (albeit sturdy) wiring so you aren't gaining anything material electrically.

Fine, on-balance. I am really surprised that they are selling you brake levers with red plugs for almost no extra money. I use hydraulic brakes that have their own red-plug cutoffs so I have never used such a thing. I've only seen levers like this with yellow plugs. Nice catch. I am assuming you have cabled brakes, right? As in they use metal cables? Thats what those levers are for.
 
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Or maybe he does. You don't know one way or the other, right?

And where would one of those be?

Again... where are experienced 'technicians' found (besides internet fora)? What you are describing only exists for name-brand bikes with dealer networks. Direct-to-consumer ebikes like what we are discussing here are DIY-serviced given the issues that exist all over the USA insofar as the availability of local bike shops (and even ebike specialty shops) taking on ebikes for repair is concerned.

But that is a guess that the motor has a fault.

This is all irrelevant to the issue at hand.

What we're discussing here is a least-cost-first approach. Since we already have reasonable not-internet, on-site guidance that there is a fault in the controller, that informs the known-imperfect process. We've already noted the problem could be the motor. But replacing the motor core pre-emptively is the most expensive choice, and premature. Especially given the typical frequency of blown controllers vs. blown motors. If the controller is bad, we've replaced it. If the bike runs we can call it a day. If not THEN its time to look at spending more money.


The effort necessary to start replacing hall sensor wires (and figuring out whether something on the board has gone bad too, or the coils have been cooked) is not beginner-level. I would recommend this is not something you should get into unless, as I think we've noted before - you are looking to acquire a new skill set.
Thank you m@ - that all makes sense to me. I will address the motor if I have to but prefer to pursue the decided upon route in the meantime.
 
Those look like best-case assuming you get whats in the pics.
  • The connectors are branded 'Amass' which is the top name-brand for such things.
  • The connectors are the version that has the cable end covering behind the connector (the grey part)
  • 12 gauge wire which for me is preferable. You will probably want a step-down butt-end connector as described in that tutorial as most likely the KT controller's power connection is only 14 gauge. That would be the yellow one in the pic of the step-down connectors.
You could also do 14 gauge which is unlikely to be any sort of problem. I just prefer the beefier wiring. The KT controller has thinner (albeit sturdy) wiring so you aren't gaining anything material electrically.


Fine, on-balance. I am really surprised that they are selling you brake levers with red plugs for almost no extra money. I use hydraulic brakes that have their own red-plug cutoffs so I have never used such a thing. I've only seen levers like this with yellow plugs. Nice catch. I am assuming you have cabled brakes, right? As in they use metal cables? Thats what those levers are for.
Okay, great. I will get the xt60 pigtail and I reviewed your blog so understand that I need the step-down butt-end connector (yellow).

Yes, I have confirmed that the breaks are cabled (not hydraulic). Thanks for checking.

Going to place my order. If it is agreeable to you, I may check back for installation troubleshooting but will also rely on videos and manuals before leaning heavily on you. Thanks for your support!
 
m@ - order has been received and almost all parts installed. And the bike works! At least the throttle does. I can't get the crank arm off to install the new PAS sensor. Not sure what my strategy is there yet. I have been working through programming the display and there are a couple of settings I am not sure about. One relates to the pedal assist so is perhaps moot until I can actually get the new sensor installed (or until I can get the crank arm off). The other has to do with the motor characteristics. I don't think I can sort the characteristics without actually looking in the motor, which would require me to remove the wheel etc. If I don't get that setting right, what am I risking? Is there a safe setting I can use as a default? I have attached pictures of the two items from the manual. Your guidance on what settings to chose for each would be appreciated.
 

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Hello again. m@ hasn't been around in awhile. I'm hoping the outrageous California weather hasn't gotten to him. Congratulations on your motor running. I've been looking at hub motor kits lately and oddly, I've run into your old display a number of times. It is always paired with a Bafang controller, that and the fact that you have the 9 pin motor plug makes me think your original set up and your motor are Bafang, most likely the G060 500w. If this is true, then your motor has 20 magnets. If this is the case, you should set P1 to 100. Try that and we will see what happens. As for your cranks, that is very simple. You will need an 8mm hex (preferably a long one) and a crank puller. The cheap ones are just as good as the expensive ones. I think I've been using a four dollar Temu one lately. You remove the hex bolt and then thread the large part of the puller into the crank arm threads, completely and then screw in the inner bolt until its pushing against the inner bottom bracket which makes the crank arm and pedal come off. It is the same as on regular analog bikes, so any video you choose to watch will be fine. It seems arcane until you do it and then you realize it's very easy. As for other P settings, if there is a problem, you can search out m@Robertson's other threads above in the search box. He has posted a lot of previous links ( I know the Snowlover thread went on forever and we had no idea what motor that was). I'm not as familiar with a lot of the settings, but if you need me to hunt something down I can. As always, let us know how it goes.
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A note on the KT Pas settings, forward and reverse reference the side of the crank you have to put the sensor on, as these are universal kits. As you bought KT's sensor and I think the standard on most bikes is the right, all of those settings may be moot. You might have to input the number of magnets on the pas sensor ring, simply because the controller doesn't know you bought KT's kit. Endless Sphere has a bunch of references to it that I can go further with, if you need it. Good luck, and you're doing great.:)
 
Thank you so much @Annieolnie ! Your insights are so helpful and appreciated! Do you think there is any chance that the PAS sensor that came on the bike will work with the new controller? In other words, any chance I don't need to replace the PAS sensor? I have the tools, but can't seem to get the crank arm off; even after enlisting someone much stronger than me.
 
If the plugs match up you can try it. You will need to tell the controller how many magnets are on the sensor that's on there. In regards to removing the crank, if you take the center bolt out of the puller and make sure the puller is seated properly, then put the center bolt back in, it should all come down to leverage. If you don't have a breaker bar, you can use a regular socket wrench with a piece of pipe over it. Even rusted out old bolts with 200 lbs of torque can't resist 2 or 3 ft. of breaker bar or pipe on a wrench. You can also try putting some penetrating oil into the crank and letting it soak overnight. But then again, if the plugs do match, there is no harm in trying to set it up as it is.
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If the plugs match up you can try it. You will need to tell the controller how many magnets are on the sensor that's on there. In regards to removing the crank, if you take the center bolt out of the puller and make sure the puller is seated properly, then put the center bolt back in, it should all come down to leverage. If you don't have a breaker bar, you can use a regular socket wrench with a piece of pipe over it. Even rusted out old bolts with 200 lbs of torque can't resist 2 or 3 ft. of breaker bar or pipe on a wrench. You can also try putting some penetrating oil into the crank and letting it soak overnight. But then again, if the plugs do match, there is no harm in trying to set it up as it is.View attachment 18667
You are so helpful. Greatly appreciated!
 
@Annieolnie - You are awesome! I do have a question actually. When I switched to the new controller, I had to sacrifice the plugs for the lights (front and back) - that previously plugged directly into the controller. Do you have thoughts on options for plugging the lights into a separate battery system using the existing plugs?
 
Hi there. I think, even if you had a way of using those plugs, you have lost your switching ability because it was through the controller, especially for the brake lights. If you go to the search box above and search "motorcycle light" Roostchucker has a thread called "light up the night" which shows you a great motorcycle light that runs from a split off from your battery connector. By the way, did your new controller fit in the frame or did it need a separate bag? If you have room, you could add a step down converter and wire your lights, but I think you will still need switches. Roostchucer's light comes with the switch and you can easily set your voltage. For a step down converter, Hightech //lLowlife Life has a video. You will have to ignore his costumes and craziness, as he is still a good electrician. There are also a number of wireless brake lights out there, which might be the best thing for the rear, some of them even have turn signals. See what you think.
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Hi there. I think, even if you had a way of using those plugs, you have lost your switching ability because it was through the controller, especially for the brake lights. If you go to the search box above and search "motorcycle light" Roostchucker has a thread called "light up the night" which shows you a great motorcycle light that runs from a split off from your battery connector. By the way, did your new controller fit in the frame or did it need a separate bag? If you have room, you could add a step down converter and wire your lights, but I think you will still need switches. Roostchucer's light comes with the switch and you can easily set your voltage. For a step down converter, Hightech //lLowlife Life has a video. You will have to ignore his costumes and craziness, as he is still a good electrician. There are also a number of wireless brake lights out there, which might be the best thing for the rear, some of them even have turn signals. See what you think.View attachment 18755
The controller did not fit in the frame of the bike. But I managed to mount it under the seat. It is well tucked away and likely more secure than it was in the frame compartment. All of the wires run through the frame and up under the seat so it doesn't look any different. Everything is still very clean and tidy.

Those rear lights look like a great option. I don't think I will go the step down route but instead pursue the Light up the Night recommendation that you pointed me to. That seems more appropriate for my pay grade.

Thanks for you continued guidance.
 
You are welcome. I'm glad to hear you made it look good. We've all devised a Frankenbike or two, at one point or another and had to do some backtracking. I think your decision is the right one. I really like that motorcycle light but don't actually need it, so I'm glad you can give it a go. Maybe you can post a pic, when it is all said and done.:giggle:
 
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