Seeking Guidance on Controller Replacement

[Amy Rides]

Yes, I can order from the states. Here are pictures of the measurements. Also, thank you!!
View attachment 18183View attachment 18184View attachment 18186

 

[Annieolnie]

Oh, you are welcome. I like hunting things down. I am finding more measurements on Aliexpress than Amazon but I think I am looking at the same thing. If it is a tiny bit thicker or wider, no more than a 1/2 inch would you still have room where it needs to go? Also do you ever order from Aliexpress? I'm trying to stick more with Amazon so you could return it, if need be, although Aliexpress is cheaper, but much slower. There is a cable you might need, possibly not, but it isn't very expensive. The pic of the cable is from Aliexpress. My little android tablet doesn't link things well so you will have to go by the titles. Let me know what you think.

 

[m@Robertson]

That controller is kind of a weird setup. You've got the XT60 for electrical power. You've also go the motor connector (the big black one with the thick outer walls). Then there's the two yellow HIGO/Julet connectors, and the one red HIGO. USUALLY if you have those, one yellow one goes to the PAS sensor and the other one goes to the throttle. The single red one would maybe be electrical power that leads to a taillight or headlight.

But there's also a wiring harness plug. The big black one with the thin walls. Typically the wiring harness is a 1T4 (One wire To Four wires) and the four wires are throttle (yellow), brake cutoffs (2 yellow but sometimes red) and display (green). So that leaves us a couple of unknown connections. Is that red one direct from the controller a power tap to a light? Why are there two yellow plugs coming out of the controller instead of just one?

Also @Smaug is correct the blobs of glue on the end of the controller are the manufacturer's cheapie way of waterproofing it rather than using rubber gaskets like you would see on a KT controller. Unfortunately I have seen that done before.

 

[m@Robertson]

@Annieolnie is showing you a 1T5 extension cable that has red brake cutoffs. There is also a 1T2 which is 1 To 2 and that is just display and throttle without brake cutoffs.

Before you start digging in and buying stuff, I'd recommend you get your ducks completely in a row on your connections needed. That 1T5 for instance uses red brake cutoffs which are not the standard. Yellow is the standard. I know this the hard way because my fancy brakes use red plugs too and its a real bear to find red-plug wiring harnesses. If your brakes use yellow plugs that 1T5 will not work.

Where do all those plugs go? What plugs are on everything on the bike side? Knowing all of that will guide you on what controller to buy, and what if anything you are going to have to replace on the bike side (like maybe the throttle but certainly the display will have to be replaced if you go with a KT controller).

 

[Amy Rides]

Oh, you are welcome. I like hunting things down. I am finding more measurements on Aliexpress than Amazon but I think I am looking at the same thing. If it is a tiny bit thicker or wider, no more than a 1/2 inch would you still have room where it needs to go? Also do you ever order from Aliexpress? I'm trying to stick more with Amazon so you could return it, if need be, although Aliexpress is cheaper, but much slower. There is a cable you might need, possibly not, but it isn't very expensive. The pic of the cable is from Aliexpress. My little android tablet doesn't link things well so you will have to go by the titles. Let me know what you think.View attachment 18198 View attachment 18196View attachment 18197

The images below show the space that the controller goes into on the bike. It is rather small.

 

[Amy Rides]

@Annieolnie is showing you a 1T5 extension cable that has red brake cutoffs. There is also a 1T2 which is 1 To 2 and that is just display and throttle without brake cutoffs.

Before you start digging in and buying stuff, I'd recommend you get your ducks completely in a row on your connections needed. That 1T5 for instance uses red brake cutoffs which are not the standard. Yellow is the standard. I know this the hard way because my fancy brakes use red plugs too and its a real bear to find red-plug wiring harnesses. If your brakes use yellow plugs that 1T5 will not work.

Where do all those plugs go? What plugs are on everything on the bike side? Knowing all of that will guide you on what controller to buy, and what if anything you are going to have to replace on the bike side (like maybe the throttle but certainly the display will have to be replaced if you go with a KT controller).

I will respond to this ASAP with what I think are the uses/functions for each of the wires. Stay tuned....

 

[m@Robertson]

I have three KT controllers in my spare parts bin that use that small motor plug, so I pulled them out, put on my magnifying glasses and peered inside the plugs.

Every one of the female pin receivers is seated deeply into the plug. I think that original pic that made it look like the big Hall receiver was pushed in more deeply was just an artifact of the camera lens angle and the light in that moment. They're all nice and deep in there. If you look at the male pins on the motor side you'll see they are all quite long, too.

ALSO: I measured a 15a KT controller (which is the smallest one I know of) and a 25a. I also own 30a and 35a controllers and they are ALL the same 2 inches deep (as amperage and the number of mosfets inside climbs, they get longer and a little wider). That right there would seem to eliminate a KT as you aren't going to fit it in through that fixed 1.5" opening.

I think if we really LOOK at those controller measurements, it becomes clear that controller is really quite small.

 

[Amy Rides]

@Annieolnie is showing you a 1T5 extension cable that has red brake cutoffs. There is also a 1T2 which is 1 To 2 and that is just display and throttle without brake cutoffs.

Before you start digging in and buying stuff, I'd recommend you get your ducks completely in a row on your connections needed. That 1T5 for instance uses red brake cutoffs which are not the standard. Yellow is the standard. I know this the hard way because my fancy brakes use red plugs too and its a real bear to find red-plug wiring harnesses. If your brakes use yellow plugs that 1T5 will not work.

Where do all those plugs go? What plugs are on everything on the bike side? Knowing all of that will guide you on what controller to buy, and what if anything you are going to have to replace on the bike side (like maybe the throttle but certainly the display will have to be replaced if you go with a KT controller).

Here is a description of where the wires to go in the current controller.
1. The big black wire with the thin casing goes to the display, throttle and back brake.
2. The yellow square goes to the power.
3. The big black wire with the thick casing goes to the motor.
4. The wire with the outer yellow part goes to the rear brake light.
5. The yellow three pin goes to the bottom bracket so is presumably for the pedal assist.
6. The red two pin goes to the front light.

See accompanying picture.

 

[m@Robertson]

Here is a description of where the wires to go in the current controller.
1. The big black wire with the thin casing goes to the display, throttle and back brake.
2. The yellow square goes to the power.
3. The big black wire with the thick casing goes to the motor.
4. The wire with the outer yellow part goes to the rear brake light.
5. The yellow three pin goes to the bottom bracket so is presumably for the pedal assist.
6. The red two pin goes to the front light.

See accompanying picture.

OK thats really useful to know. It tells us your bike is wired up differently than your typical ebike. All this KT controller stuff we are talking about (in addition to the size problem I brought up previously) is going to need more brainpower to implement if thats the way you want to go.

I pretty much recommend KT controllers universally given their quality level and their 'simulated torque assist' mode on pedal assist, which is night-and-day better than the on/off switch you usually get with cadence-based pedal assist. However, It looks like anything approaching a factory-like fitment is out the window here based on the size restriction alone.

If you decided to live with the size issue and instead put the controller in say a frame or handlebar bag, and run extensions to make up for the different cable lengths (everything that is needed is readily available on Amazon) thats the only path forward.

1. On your list, only Items 2, 3 and 5 are in common use. Item 5 can be male or female interchangeably so you have to watch out for that and, potentially, buy a different sensor if the genders do not match. The one you have is 'female' on the controller side so you have to match that. Your Item 6 (the headlight power tap) is also in common use EXCEPT the KT controllers I have all use the male end on the controller, and yours has the female end. Maybe mine are the ones that are non-standard (lets hope).
2. Since only one of the brake cutoffs goes to the back brake (the brake LEVER I am assuming, and not the caliper all the way in the back), and a yellow plug goes to the rear brake light, that tells me your controller has got some magic inside of it that lets the back brake actuation both cut the motor and engage a brake light. I doubt that light activation can be replicated but @Annieolnie might be able to find something that has such a circuit built in. I do brake lights differently via lights with deceleration sensors built in so I have zero experience with a controller-based solution.
3. That 1T3 wiring harness is pretty unusual.
4. This is where I buy my HIGO/Julet extensions. You would need these to implement a KT controller that is say kept in a handlebar bag at the front of the bike. Mix and match as needed.

This can be done, but its not going to be plug and play. On the plus side, while you are learning a lot more than you want to, you're saving the bike instead of junking it.

 

[Annieolnie]

@Annieolnie is showing you a 1T5 extension cable that has red brake cutoffs. There is also a 1T2 which is 1 To 2 and that is just display and throttle without brake cutoffs.

Before you start digging in and buying stuff, I'd recommend you get your ducks completely in a row on your connections needed. That 1T5 for instance uses red brake cutoffs which are not the standard. Yellow is the standard. I know this the hard way because my fancy brakes use red plugs too and its a real bear to find red-plug wiring harnesses. If your brakes use yellow plugs that 1T5 will not work.

Where do all those plugs go? What plugs are on everything on the bike side? Knowing all of that will guide you on what controller to buy, and what if anything you are going to have to replace on the bike side (like maybe the throttle but certainly the display will have to be replaced if you go with a KT

OK thats really useful to know. It tells us your bike is wired up differently than your typical ebike. All this KT controller stuff we are talking about (in addition to the size problem I brought up previously) is going to need more brainpower to implement if thats the way you want to go.

I pretty much recommend KT controllers universally given their quality level and their 'simulated torque assist' mode on pedal assist, which is night-and-day better than the on/off switch you usually get with cadence-based pedal assist. However, It looks like anything approaching a factory-like fitment is out the window here based on the size restriction alone.

If you decided to live with the size issue and instead put the controller in say a frame or handlebar bag, and run extensions to make up for the different cable lengths (everything that is needed is readily available on Amazon) thats the only path forward.

1. On your list, only Items 2, 3 and 5 are in common use. Item 5 can be male or female interchangeably so you have to watch out for that and, potentially, buy a different sensor if the genders do not match. The one you have is 'female' on the controller side so you have to match that. Your Item 6 (the headlight power tap) is also in common use EXCEPT the KT controllers I have all use the male end on the controller, and yours has the female end. Maybe mine are the ones that are non-standard (lets hope).
2. Since only one of the brake cutoffs goes to the back brake (the brake LEVER I am assuming, and not the caliper all the way in the back), and a yellow plug goes to the rear brake light, that tells me your controller has got some magic inside of it that lets the back brake actuation both cut the motor and engage a brake light. I doubt that light activation can be replicated but @Annieolnie might be able to find something that has such a circuit built in. I do brake lights differently via lights with deceleration sensors built in so I have zero experience with a controller-based solution.
3. That 1T3 wiring harness is pretty unusual.
4. This is where I buy my HIGO/Julet extensions. You would need these to implement a KT controller that is say kept in a handlebar bag at the front of the bike. Mix and match as needed.

This can be done, but its not going to be plug and play. On the plus side, while you are learning a lot more than you want to, you're saving the bike instead of junking it.

Well, I'm glad you stepped in here m@. This isn't wired the way I thought at all. The display is one that was pretty much meant for scooters if that means anything.

 

[m@Robertson]

Well whaddya know. I found a KT controller that will fit. The T06S. It is only 32mm thick which is 1.25".

https://www.topbikekit.com/t06s-36v...r-light-output-with-julet-wp-plug-p-1319.html

This is a 15a peak controller whose rated current is 7a (your rated current is 10a so that means your controller now is probably actually peaking at 20a, so this controller is not as powerful).

The light output plug is a matching female 2-wire red. The pedal assist is the matching female 3-wire yellow. Motor plug is the same. You will need to buy the 1T4 wiring harness and then work out new wiring because for sure you can fuggedabout the brake light. This might be a pretty good near-fit solution.

If you want more power to match what you had, KT makes a 22a controller whose rated power is 11a. Almost the same as your own. But I am pretty sure the size is going to take you back to the handlebar bag idea.

 

[Annieolnie]

Would it be best and cheaper to buy a full KT kit with throttle and brake levers? Is that going to be enough maximum amps?

 

[m@Robertson]

Here's the 22a unit.

https://www.topbikekit.com/t09s-36v...er-with-julet-waterproof-connector-p-760.html
No light plug (not a big surprise) and its 40 cm height means 1.57"... so MAYBE it fits. Big maybe. Also a 5.1" length so not a lot of room to play around with stuffing cabling inside.

 

[Annieolnie]

Here's the 22a unit.

https://www.topbikekit.com/t09s-36v...er-with-julet-waterproof-connector-p-760.html
No light plug (not a big surprise) and its 40 cm height means 1.57"... so MAYBE it fits. Big maybe. Also a 5.1" length so not a lot of room to play around with stuffing cabling inside.

That looks pretty good. What display would be the easiest to program with that, keeping in mind I think there is a budget involved, as the kid saved up for this himself.

 

[m@Robertson]

Would it be best and cheaper to buy a full KT kit with throttle and brake levers?

In this case I would just buy the bits one at a time and hope for the best. Now... the kits I am linking use the RED brake cutoff connectors, which do not conform to the Bafang standard. But if the affected bike uses red I would buy the 1T4 cable. Otherwise. Maybe write off the brake cutoffs and do a 1T2. One way or another buy the wiring harness with the controller.

For a throttle I always recommend the 300X throttle that TopBikeKit does not sell, but Amazon does. Its a quality product vs. the junk you get in almost every other instance. And its a clamshell mount so easy to install. Search Amazon for '300x throttle' and then pick the one with the plug end that you need.

I would also - whether you end up using it or not - buy the pedal assist sensor with the controller. I personally always buy their 8PAS sensor. Its a quality unit. BUT having it on hand, I would also try just plugging in the existing sensor and if it works... leave it alone.

Now is the time to mention that a KT controller needs to be set up, and links to the Area 13 vids have already been given here. The PAS sensor setting can be dodgy. Easiest thing to do is just try all of them and see which one works You will see 'reverse' settings and those are used when you mount the sensor on the left and the sensor is thus moving in the opposite direction. But not always (I am skipping details here as this is already long). If you hook up the sensor and nothing, try running the cranks backwards. If suddenly it works then you know you need to pick the setting that is the same but goes in the opposite direction.... or don't bother thinking about it just try all 8 of them and see which one works.

Is that going to be enough maximum amps?

Ask the kid who rides it. I bet the answer will always be no . We aren't talking about big power here. Right now that bike is only feeding 10a continuous and 20a peak. Thats really low power. A 22/11 controller is a teensy bit more. A 15/7 is pretty weak. But it fits and it has a light plug. If it were me I'd try the 22/11, fit it to a handlebar bag if it can't be shoehorned into the frame (a metal file on each side of that opening will give you 2mm extra and probably more without issue) and figure out a different solution for the headlight. I'm willing to bet that headlight is NOTHING like what you could have both from a standpoint of safety and quality.

https://talesontwowheels.com/2021/12/03/which-front-bicycle-lights-should-i-use/

 

[m@Robertson]

That looks pretty good. What display would be the easiest to program with that, keeping in mind I think there is a budget involved, as the kid saved up for this himself.

All of the KT displays are the same. The LCD8H is the cadillac solution as it has all the settings on one screen that you can just move thru and easily visualize. Plus its pretty color. The LCD3 is the tried and true full size display. Both of these are covered in the Area 13 vid. Myself personally I have used both the LCD8H (one time) and the LCD3 (many times) and I replaced ALL of them with the LCD4, which is small and also very cheap at around US$30. Its essentially a tiny LCD3 in terms of its programming interface. It also has the benefit of being very small and unobtrusive, but still backlit and visible in pitch black or blazing sunlight. Hands down my favorite after using KT stuff since I think 2015.

 

[Annieolnie]

The narrowest controller I can find is 1.5 inches, so I think it is the same as this one.

 

[Annieolnie]

If Amy Rides wasn't feeling a teensy bit overwhelmed before I bet she is now.

 

[Annieolnie]

In this case I would just buy the bits one at a time and hope for the best. Now... the kits I am linking use the RED brake cutoff connectors, which do not conform to the Bafang standard. But if the affected bike uses red I would buy the 1T4 cable. Otherwise. Maybe write off the brake cutoffs and do a 1T2. One way or another buy the wiring harness with the controller.

For a throttle I always recommend the 300X throttle that TopBikeKit does not sell, but Amazon does. Its a quality product vs. the junk you get in almost every other instance. And its a clamshell mount so easy to install. Search Amazon for '300x throttle' and then pick the one with the plug end that you need.

I would also - whether you end up using it or not - buy the pedal assist sensor with the controller. I personally always buy their 8PAS sensor. Its a quality unit. BUT having it on hand, I would also try just plugging in the existing sensor and if it works... leave it alone.

Now is the time to mention that a KT controller needs to be set up, and links to the Area 13 vids have already been given here. The PAS sensor setting can be dodgy. Easiest thing to do is just try all of them and see which one works You will see 'reverse' settings and those are used when you mount the sensor on the left and the sensor is thus moving in the opposite direction. But not always (I am skipping details here as this is already long). If you hook up the sensor and nothing, try running the cranks backwards. If suddenly it works then you know you need to pick the setting that is the same but goes in the opposite direction.... or don't bother thinking about it just try all 8 of them and see which one works.

Ask the kid who rides it. I bet the answer will always be no . We aren't talking about big power here. Right now that bike is only feeding 10a continuous and 20a peak. Thats really low power. A 22/11 controller is a teensy bit more. A 15/7 is pretty weak. But it fits and it has a light plug. If it were me I'd try the 22/11, fit it to a handlebar bag if it can't be shoehorned into the frame (a metal file on each side of that opening will give you 2mm extra and probably more without issue) and figure out a different solution for the headlight. I'm willing to bet that headlight is NOTHING like what you could have both from a standpoint of safety and quality.

https://talesontwowheels.com/2021/12/03/which-front-bicycle-lights-should-i-use/

There is actually a great thread somewhere around here about adding a split off cable from the battery that goes to a motorcycle light that has a power on and off button.

 

[Amy Rides]

If Amy Rides wasn't feeling a teensy bit overwhelmed before I bet she is now.

You two are amazing!! I am definitely overwhelmed but more by the time and effort you are putting into helping me than anything. I am doing my best to keep up. I so appreciate this.