SAWDUST Hub motor damage, clogged throttle (2020 Biktrix Swift)

Roma

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Biktrix Swift step thru, bought Feb 2020 made some noise. Then exposed to sawdust. Subsequently throttle clogged by debris, hub motor continuous loud grinding since.

Hub sent to Bixtrix 6 wks ago *still no update*

Heard anything about Sawdust hub motor damage, or damage from light rain for a day which is person’s defence (full time handy man) am suing for operating power saw table to which bike was locked.
 
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Roma

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Following Sawdust exposure, hub Motor screeched clunked then went dead. Throttle clogged w/ debris cleaned w/ air compressor. Motor continuous grinding since, sent to Biktrix 6 wks ago, no update yet.
Bike swift 2020
Anyone have info sawdust damage to electric motors of any kind, or mechanism leading to clogged throttle?
NB am suing person who operated power saw table next to bike

[Duplicate thread with more details merged below...]

Anyone know anything about sawdust damage to hub motor, or any electric motor for that matter?
Swift hub Ebike 2020 exposed to sawdust Motor screeched, clunked then went dead.
Throttle clogged w/ debris, cleaned w/ air compressor. Motor now continuous loud grinding. Sent to manufacturer in Sask 6 wks ago & still no update.
Am suing person who operated power saw for negligence; need as much info as possible re: sawdust damage to equipment of any kind
 
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Roma

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Yeah, I seen a man go past me on the canal yesterday with 1 of them and his bike was creaking and cracking and squeaking
Yeah, I seen a man go past me on the canal yesterday with 1 of them and his bike was creaking and cracking and squeaking
Hub damage from sawdust.
Have Swift step thru 2020. Motor slightly noisy, but since Sawdust exposure, ++ noisy. Send to Biktrix 6 wks ago, still no update. Throttle also clogged by debris, cleaned w/ Air compressor.
Appear as you (prior to sawdust even) noisy motor, sticking throttle + unpredictable jumpstarting of motor. Almost killed me once
 

Hoggdoc

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Hub damage from sawdust.
Have Swift step thru 2020. Motor slightly noisy, but since Sawdust exposure, ++ noisy. Send to Biktrix 6 wks ago, still no update. Throttle also clogged by debris, cleaned w/ Air compressor.
Appear as you (prior to sawdust even) noisy motor, sticking throttle + unpredictable jumpstarting of motor. Almost killed me once
I don't understand how sawdust could get into a hub motor. Have checked the chain maybe it is clogged with the saw dust. BTW what do you think Biktrix is going to do for you?
 

Roma

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I don't understand how sawdust could get into a hub motor. Have checked the chain maybe it is clogged with the saw dust. BTW what do you think Biktrix is going to do for you?
IP65 permits ingress of particles remaining airborne >8hrs:
0DC78129-AB4E-4797-9346-FD0E413D10AF.jpeg

tiniest size + >est air density of all construction dusts:
D7309574-DEA9-4A76-8591-7F502D04AFDB.jpeg

0.05 micron’s ability to remain airborne indefinitely: (system not allowing another attachment; will try posting). Additional info re: size, particle characteristics + damage potential
 

Roma

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sawdust not prevented ingress by IP65 ‘dust tight’ 6 rating (5 is water protection level) as stays airborne:
65E27D4B-FBE9-422C-BFE1-DE50F44F76A0.jpeg

Characteristics re: clogging, damage next post
 

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Roma

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Throttle clogged re:
4D025058-9C30-48BD-9677-CA54A7947B17.jpeg

Unique physical properties:
#1
4485AEC8-FD04-4340-B11C-2FB6F6900299.jpeg

#2

29F57F95-C3F9-48EE-9876-D3EEB5631C00.jpeg


Continued next post
 

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Roma

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System not allowing more screenshots.
Final display would have outlined sawdust’s ability to ruin fine finishes @ specified sizes.
SAWDUST WAS DELIBERATE: person operated power saw table to which bike locked during 2 day absence, no effort to move/cover bike w/ sheets/garbage bags in abundance everywhere. Table operated in car garage (confined space) w/ no ventilation.
WHAT I NEED: Source to analyze motor.
Yesterday Bixtrix provided pics motor ++extensive damage, irreparable. Not their policy to ascertain cause. Warranty declined. Intend sue for negligence. Need expert opinion.
 

Roma

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System not allowing more screenshots re:
sawdust’s ability to ruin fine finishes @ specified sizes.

In summary, sawdust possesses unique characteristics allowing it to clog the throttle, plus enter the motor via airborne currents & exert damage due to unique physical properties likened to ‘shards’ & ‘barbs’.
SAWDUST WAS DELIBERATE: person operated power saw table to which bike locked during 2 day absence, no effort to move/cover bike w/ sheets/garbage bags in abundance everywhere. Table operated in car garage (confined space) w/ no ventilation.
WHAT I NEED: Source to analyze motor.
Yesterday Bixtrix provided pics motor ++extensive damage, irreparable. Not their policy to ascertain cause. Warranty declined. Intend sue for negligence. Need expert opinion.
 

Roma

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IP65 permits ingress of particles remaining airborne >8hrs: View attachment 1896
tiniest size + >est air density of all construction dusts: View attachment 1897
0.05 micron’s ability to remain airborne indefinitely: (system not allowing another attachment; will try posting). Additional info re: size, particle characteristics + damage potential
additional information in upcoming posts. Don’t know if displayed here as not familiar with this system
 

Roma

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Following sawdust exposure motor screeched klunked then quit. Mechanic detected throttle clogged w/ debris ~ prevented engaging in OFF setting ~ detected by bike’s computer ~ disabled power supply. Treated w/ air compressor.
SAWDUST WAS DELIBERATE. table saw operated while bike locked to it during 2 day absence, no attempt move/cover bike. Took place in confined space w/ no ventilation
Bixtrix had motor >6 wks Yesterday sent pics extensive damage irreparable not covered under warranty Not their position to determine cause
Bike swift 2020 400 km @ time damage No sig rain/dust exposure
Intend sue for negligence
desperately need: source to analyze motor + info Sawdust Damage electric motor any type
IP65 doesn’t cover sawdust…particle size 0.05 microns remain airborne…IP65 only prevents ingress dust gravitating out w/in 8 hrs.
For detailed info re: IP65 + sawdust check threads/posts
 

LTK Honolulu

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Biktrix Swift step thru, bought Feb 2020 made some noise. Then exposed to sawdust. Subsequently throttle clogged by debris, hub motor continuous loud grinding since.

Hub sent to Bixtrix 6 wks ago *still no update*

Heard anything about Sawdust hub motor damage, or damage from light rain for a day which is person’s defence (full time handy man) am suing for operating power saw table to which bike was locked.
Dont understand the question. Your assessment may be different than the mechanic. I wonder how any dust can get into a sealed emotor housing unless there are vent holes. Worstcase you are faced with a new motor or gears. Next bike, no vent holes.
 

bugsplatterbeast

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Biktrix Swift step thru, bought Feb 2020 made some noise. Then exposed to sawdust. Subsequently throttle clogged by debris, hub motor continuous loud grinding since.

Hub sent to Bixtrix 6 wks ago *still no update*

Heard anything about Sawdust hub motor damage, or damage from light rain for a day which is person’s defence (full time handy man) am suing for operating power saw table to which bike was locked.
A lot of hub drives aren't waterproof there water resistant so not only can water get in but dust as well. There are a few videos online which show you how to waterproof your hub drive, but this involves taking it apart and painting the insides with red oxide paint.
 

Roma

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I don't understand how sawdust could get into a hub motor. Have checked the chain maybe it is clogged with the saw dust. BTW what do you think Biktrix is going to do for you?
38F32FEC-BBAD-4AD2-932D-BB96DC381691.jpeg

IP65 defined by 2-8 hrs (see above) ie. particles airborne >8 hrs not prevented from ingress into motor. Amongst all construction dust profiles, sawdust has tiniest size + >est air density
BECCD309-87A9-498C-B99B-7027883BD617.jpeg

Gained access airborne via air currents. In presence of humidity:
7575149E-FF9F-40B1-9219-082F3B8DDAF1.jpeg

@ micron size has unique physical traits “likened to shards + barbs”…
476CFADC-F63E-46C8-B1C3-2D157F9C607D.jpeg

8104924F-FFA6-412D-A23C-561783178790.jpeg

519693C3-8347-4F0A-8AE8-7B85C0B49FBD.jpeg

Has phenols + acidic substances. If moisture present, acts as a conduit for ionic transfer enabling sawdust to ruin fine finishes:
24663D67-7166-4D01-9AA2-D898CE9006E3.jpeg

Distributor examined motor. Numerous isolated discrete brown patches throughout, & determined “looks like rust therefore it is”, attributing to water damage. Absolutely no history water exposure whatsoever. Intend sue person who operated power saw table to which bike was locked making no attempt to move or protect bike. For court purposes:
NEED INFO SAWDUST DAMAGE TO ELECTRIC MOTOR OF ANY KIND and INTERNAL PROPERTIES HUB MOTOR (TYPE METAL, APPLIED FINISHES)
 

Roma

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A lot of hub drives aren't waterproof there water resistant so not only can water get in but dust as well. There are a few videos online which show you how to waterproof your hub drive, but this involves taking it apart and painting the insides with red oxide paint.
Sawdust gained access into motor as IP65 doesn’t prevent ingress particles airborne > 8 hrs; refer below ‘Two to eight hours.’
34343B75-B363-46BF-876D-5DBF7365C094.jpeg

34343B75-B363-46BF-876D-5DBF7365C094.jpeg

Sawdust has tiniest size + >est air density amongst all construction dust profiles:
A315AA71-F864-4A3F-A13A-5A3B70DD5A83.jpeg
A315AA71-F864-4A3F-A13A-5A3B70DD5A83.jpeg

@ micron size:
580436B1-0E85-4FED-8859-5C243DB625AC.jpeg

In presence of humidity:
5E277084-3A1E-4F0E-BC17-96F0201C96AD.jpeg

Physical characteristics micron sized sawdust:
8BDF31F9-5D45-46BA-B9F1-291180DF88DE.jpeg
5764980E-6789-4774-907B-A761F34329F0.jpeg
B1BBA836-2670-4F4F-A0DA-4C83A9FA6008.jpeg

NEED INFO SAWDUST DAMAGE TO MOTORS OF ANY KIND. & INTERNAL COMPOSITION MOTOR ie. METAL TYPE, FINISHES APPLIED
Case evolving into legal matter. person operated tablesaw to which bike was locked not attempting to move/cover it. Person handyman w/ two decades of experience. Motor sent to distributor, examined motor, found numerous discrete brown irregular separate patches. Concluded “ looks like rust therefore it is” yet not qualified to deliver expert opinion by their own admission. ABSOLUTELY NO HISTORY water exposure. Distributor determined bcs of unusual degree extensive erosion, that this was a user-end rather than manufacturer-end problem and won’t honour warranty.
8BDF31F9-5D45-46BA-B9F1-291180DF88DE.jpeg
5764980E-6789-4774-907B-A761F34329F0.jpeg
B1BBA836-2670-4F4F-A0DA-4C83A9FA6008.jpeg
B1BBA836-2670-4F4F-A0DA-4C83A9FA6008.jpeg
 

Roma

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Dont understand the question. Your assessment may be different than the mechanic. I wonder how any dust can get into a sealed emotor housing unless there are vent holes. Worstcase you are faced with a new motor or gears. Next bike, no vent holes.
Sawdust entered motor as IP66 does not present ingress particles airborne >8 hrs, refer below:
7B4F888C-62AE-4C8A-953A-6EC94DE795A3.jpeg

Sawdust has tiniest size + >est air density amongst all construction dust particles:
3929D13F-779D-4F37-BC96-B1E54A6439FE.jpeg

Properties of micro sized sawdust include:
8A838FDF-84E8-49FF-B7EF-ECEDBE2C0DEE.jpeg

in the presence of humidity:
6251C880-9D2D-4599-8D78-7DA8998DFF17.jpeg

physical characteristics:
Likened to ‘shards & barbs’..
6CB49885-2B22-4507-884A-360F7690D0E5.jpeg

‘airborne shards’…
C6CA1E4A-E9B2-4F6F-926F-7682CEB9AF0A.jpeg

9113BEC8-52D0-44FA-9B5B-55FDCC4D0083.jpeg

‘can and will ruin fine finishes’…
F9AF537C-5826-431C-B6C9-06DF12222F87.jpeg

NEED INFO SAWDUST DAMAGE TO ELECTRIC MOTOR OF ANY KIND & CONSTITUENTS INTERNAL HUB ie. TYPE METAL APPLIED FINISHES
 

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Roma

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A lot of hub drives aren't waterproof there water resistant so not only can water get in but dust as well. There are a few videos online which show you how to waterproof your hub drive, but this involves taking it apart and painting the insides with red oxide paint.
Sawdust gained access into motor as IP65 does not prevent ingress particles airborne >8 hrs:
24A4C6F0-60D6-4B1F-89B5-76F304611549.jpeg

Comments re: properties of sawdust to follow ie. Particle size/density, airborne tendency, exposure to humidity, micron sized physical characteristics & related damage.
NB points to note:
1. Amongst all construction dust profiles, sawdust has tiniest size particle size & >est Air density,
2. 0.5 micron size able to remain suspended in atmosphere indefinitely
3. Presence moisture forms sticky clumps,
4. Electron microscopy particles likened to ‘shards and barbs‘, particles abrasive, ‘can and will ruin fine finishes’
C76F25D4-FCB8-4A72-BF65-A265CAFA31C0.jpegAC14BCEF-3A79-4B5E-962E-525D34FC61CD.jpeg907B3D6B-A42E-46F6-B006-82F0B3615989.jpeg
0080A496-96F0-46A5-9E4D-847B2B8EAA01.jpeg
DFF8EFE1-1610-4C6D-B026-CA5D64A9B925.jpeg7FFF6F4C-ADC7-441D-826C-664CC8C40F30.jpeg
apologize if attachments duplicated or not in correct order, just learning this method.

Need info Sawdust Damage to electric motor of any kind & constituents internal hub motor re: type of metal, applied finishes.
 

Roma

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Sawdust entered motor as IP66 does not present ingress particles airborne >8 hrs, refer below:View attachment 1962
Sawdust has tiniest size + >est air density amongst all construction dust particles:
View attachment 1963
Properties of micro sized sawdust include:
View attachment 1969
in the presence of humidity:
View attachment 1964
physical characteristics:
Likened to ‘shards & barbs’..
View attachment 1967
‘airborne shards’…
View attachment 1968
View attachment 1965
‘can and will ruin fine finishes’…View attachment 1970
NEED INFO SAWDUST DAMAGE TO ELECTRIC MOTOR OF ANY KIND & CONSTITUENTS INTERNAL HUB ie. TYPE METAL APPLIED FINISHES
A lot of hub drives aren't waterproof there water resistant so not only can water get in but dust as well. There are a few videos online which show you how to waterproof your hub drive, but this involves taking it apart and painting the insides with red oxide paint.
Hi
Sent reply but didn’t come out right, barely legible! Just learning this method. Posted similar replies w/ others, please check out if have time.
Am desperate to find source info sawdust damage electric motor any kind & constituents internal hub re: metal, applied finishes
Thanks :)
 

Roma

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Dont understand the question. Your assessment may be different than the mechanic. I wonder how any dust can get into a sealed emotor housing unless there are vent holes. Worstcase you are faced with a new motor or gears. Next bike, no vent holes.
Hub protected dust Ingress by IP65 (ingress protection=IP), level 6 dust, 5 water. IP65 for dust defined as:
C7331508-FA88-4B01-A07A-CBCF9BB9E541.jpeg

DUST TIGHT 2-8 HRS. 2-8 hrs refers to dust gravitating within 2-8 hrs. Stated otherwise: dust remaining airborne >8hrs can access motor via air currents. Sawdust particle size small as 0.05 micron:
17ADD3FF-00B8-483A-824A-58BE9C30723D.jpeg
Particles >1 micron persist in atmosphere indefinitely DA020BA3-1AA2-4CD0-84EC-6D12928E39A3.jpegAs IP65 doesn’t prevent Ingress Particles (ie IP) airborne >8 hrs (first attachment) & sawdust small enough to remain airborne, it entered motor. Tiny particles have unique features:
145C82E1-F9EE-4318-B123-86595AA29036.jpeg

9CE14C5E-C533-4B2C-9D5E-7B5B7AD95FF8.jpeg
particles formiclumps while inside motor, settled down & caused RUST & CORROSION:
System not allowing more attachments
Google sawdust corrosion for more
Did you know sawdust can cause rust (google it!) & eat away fine finishes via organic vapours such as acetic acid& phenols which it emits?
 

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Roma

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HAnyone have info sawdust Damage hub motor or electric motors of any kind?
Desperately need any info/leads. Following exposure sawdust, motor grinding bike unrideable within 18 days. Motor sent to Bixtrix, deemed irreparable. Rust present, assumed water damage (no water exposure whatsoever!!) Given rust’s unusual appearance said ‘user-end’ as opposed to‘manufacture-end’ problem, not covered under warranty
Bike Swift Electric 2020 nearly brand new no prior problems

Bike’s exposed to sawdust from power saw table (alleging negligence against person operating it) Next ride 8 days later motor grinding, then next ride <2 blocks motor shrieked klunked & went dead. Mechanic diagnosed throttle clogged with debris (?source) prevented throttle from engaging in OFF setting, detected by bikes computer which disengaged power supply. Cleaned with air compressor, works fine.
Motor grinding persisted. Sent to Biktrix who said: Motor irreparable re: rust attributed to WATER EXPOSURE but no history of this (documented by evidence for month in & around sawdust exposure). Bixtrix doesn’t believe it so concluded water damage anyway. The IP65 protection in Motor does not cover particles small as sawdust. This is discussed below. I’m certain Bixtrix doesn’t even understand it.

Below Bixtrix Pics of Motor:
showing rust patches w/ discrete (water generalized re: spraying about) well demarcated irregular borders (water rounded margins) distinctly isolated (multiple tiny droplets diffuse) & separated from one another (water runs into itself) containing areas unaffected by rust (not possible w/ water sprays) between one another:
95EB1417-34FD-46F6-92EE-1B4AA0DC294B.jpeg

compare pics rust water damage (below):

motor affected throughout, consistent with water splashing as motor spins, spraying tiny water droplets all directions causing uniform distribution of rust.
Pics below of water damage consistent with description showing diffuse confluent generalized appearance

CAA9885D-5EF4-4B72-83D9-195299627DB9.png
throughout entire inner surface of motor.
47088870-BE7D-4094-9031-FD867393E8C5.jpeg


Sawdust able to enter motor as IP65 doesn’t prevent Ingress Protection (ie. IP) for particles remaining Airborne >8hrs:
407861DD-DD7B-4747-9AA7-9F7EBB25F178.jpeg


Clause “2-8” refers to protection wrt particles gravitating within 2-8 hrs. Otherwise stated, particles remaining airborne after 8hrs can pass into motor.
Thus motor not dust proof dust tight.
Am sure Bixtrix doesn’t understand this.

Particle size 1 micron or less remains airborne:
90FED128-97BA-476C-AC8A-7C8F5049FA8C.jpeg
As sawdust particle size < 1micron, can persist in atmosphere indefinitely:
9A167276-4691-4820-82FA-29C364107079.jpeg

sawdust within motor affected damage in several ways. Tiny particles have unique characteristics;
117DCECE-64C8-4974-A260-61BB3E5CBBC6.jpeg

once inside motor, combined with atmospheric humidity:
57BF5116-16C6-40C5-B533-2CEF0E8A2A44.jpeg

Leading to deposition of clumps. Wrt bike, after exposure it sat for 2 wks, giving adequate time for clumps to settle and stick. Then next ride, clumps fragmented off + spread.
Sawdust causes damage in numerous ways. Unfortunately limit with attachments reached
if interested Google Sawdust rust… sawdust corrosion… sawdust emission organic solvents.
Desperately need info Sawdust Damage electric motors. Nonexistent on internet is DUST hub motor damage
 

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