Safer batteries?

[red]

Okay, I'm a New Guy here. I started after an ebike years ago, but the local city attorney sicced the cops on them, before I bought in. Now that's history and done here, and I still want an ebike. My problem now is with battery fires. I don't have a cave to charge and store the batteries, so I want to avoid the lithium-type arson/ exploders. I know that lead-acid is safe(r) chemistry, and I have heard about other types of batteries that do not explode and burn. Just as one example, Toyota is going to solid-state (rebuildable) batteries in their electric cars.

What are the other battery choices now, really? How do they rank in energy density, lifespan, and cost? Can ordinary people buy and use them, or do I have to be a car company? I would expect lower energy densities than lithium, but I'm good with that, as opposed to burning down the building one day. I do not need to go that long or that fast. If safer batteries are all still pie-in-the-sky, what companies are the most promising, now? Thanks.

 

[HumanPerson]

ugh.....lifepo4...

just do it man.....ya hear me? I mean what do ya really want?? Get on it and ride man.....I mean come on....you have posted alot of threads....you have been told alot ....wtf do ya want man? you have said alot.....so get on it mate!!

WTF will satisfy you ???

Jesus.....WTF!!!

 

[red]

HumanPerson,

Thank you.

 

["A"]

I've participated in competitive cycling since 1996, riding motorcycles since 1999
and converting regular MTBs & DH bikes into ebikes since 2013; nearly dozen of them, some well capable of 45-50 mph.
I've purchased nearly a dozen of ebikes & batteries from China from direct factory like Alibaba & Aliexpress since 2017.
I've commuted in NYC metro on bicycles since 2014, on ebikes since 2017, logged over 4-5k miles on different Chinese ebikes since.
Never have I had a battery explode, leak, catch fire or any other mishap that endanger my residence or garage.

Though there are plenty of online videos or reports, as NYC resident & commuter, I have never witnessed any ebike battery caught on fire.
Sure there are dangers with batteries, but with a little knowledge, caution & prevention, batteries can be plenty safe; no different from storage of a can of gasoline or other flammables fuel.

 

[red]

"A,"

Thanks. Good to hear. I was hoping to learn about new developments in batteries, but I can wait, also. With winter coming, I did not want to store a lithium-ion battery in the house, or in the cold. Springtime may be a better bet for me. I will keep my ear to the ground, for now. Thanks again.

 

["A"]

If you're just looking for your first ebike, just try something cheap (under $1.5k) & easy to use.
Complete ebikes from online sellers have plenty of performance these days.

If you're planning for DIY, below forum would be better resources:

Endless Sphere - Index page

Converting existing bicycle into ebike you'll still have a frame that's not meant to support the extra weight or battery, motor, etc.. Most acoustic bicycles would lack the brake performance for the additional power output of electrical motor, the wheels/rims are not meant for the extra speed on long term basis.
That's why I stopped converting bicycles into ebikes, because they are not meant to handle the extra stress.

 

[CloneWerks]

Converting existing bicycle into ebike you'll still have a frame that's not meant to support the extra weight or battery, motor, etc.. Most acoustic bicycles would lack the brake performance for the additional power output of electrical motor, the wheels/rims are not meant for the extra speed on long term basis.
That's why I stopped converting bicycles into ebikes, because they are not meant to handle the extra stress.

Amen brother.
If you want to see some of the math behind that extra stress take a gander at the PSA I wrote on eBike maintenance.

 

[red]

If you're just looking for your first ebike, just try something cheap (under $1.5k) & easy to use.
Converting existing bicycle into ebike you'll still have a frame that's not meant to support the extra weight or battery, motor, etc.. Most acoustic bicycles would lack the brake performance for the additional power output of electrical motor, the wheels/rims are not meant for the extra speed on long term basis.
That's why I stopped converting bicycles into ebikes, because they are not meant to handle the extra stress.

"A,"
CloneWerks,

Thanks. I did plan to snag a tough used mountain/trail bike, prolly with a BBSHD mid-drive, but your stress considerations are valid. I can live (!) with some good advice. It is welcome here. I appreciate your concern.

 

["A"]

Get a reference what it's like converting your own bike into an ebike:

1,800W & 3,000W brushless motors with 20S to 24S - 18 ah LTOs and brush chain drives.

I will be working on a custom build for my brushless motor. It is currently on a 20" BMX style bike and since I have no welding skills, I used wood. Recently I acquired a wire welder and want to weld a steel plate to replace the wood. However, need to be able to loosen the chain to change a flat...

ebikesforum.com

IMO, that bike is unsafe at 30+ mph even without the motor/battery/accessories on the bike.
The wheels/spokes/brakes are likely not meant to support speed/weight above 25 mph.
Adding extra weight of motor/battery, etc.. really bad things can happen when impact occurs on the road, especially when only brakes are available are linear pull rim brakes.

When complete ebikes are available below $1500, designed to support the extra weight & speed, converting bicycles as such into ebikes with high motor output/high battery capacity is simply not ideal.

 

[JerryB]

Red.....you seem to be quite a worrier.......seriously.....maybe ebikes and batteries are not your thing.....maybe a donkey and cart....no wait.....I forgot.....you don't have a cave and probably not a barn so the donkey thing isn't a good idea either. Donkey's drop anywhere from 7 to 12lbs of manure a day.......that could be a real mess in your living room. Good luck in your research.

 

[red]

JerryB,

Yeah, I'm a disabled vet, living on a small pension. A house fire, especially with lithium, would wreck my whole life. I could not afford the local rental housing. Zoning would not allow me to rebuild here after a fire, even if I had the money - the lot is too small to suit the local codes.
Don't want a donkey (they are messy . . .), and there's that zoning thing again. An ebike would get me out and about more. Happy thought!
Cheaper than gasoline, anyway. Winters are freezing cold here, so I can't keep lithium batteries outside for half of the year.
Hoping to find safer batteries. There must be something more capable than lead-acid, but I just don't know enough now. Thanks.

 

[HumanPerson]

I know this might sound nuts but a doghouse with a door and a heating pad set to 65 degrees and some pillows to set the
batteries on while charging/resting in the heated doghouse might work. Sounds silly so might just work, so you Can keep your batteries outside
in the cold months.

Do you know anything about BTC and the wallets red? If so i might be able to help you out occasionally to help get ya afford
a good kit and battery.

In the winters it gets down around the low 40's degrees where i store my batteries.

Let's get you out and about more man

 

[red]

HumanPerson,

Where is that Global Warming? They promised us Global Warming!
Thanks for that doghouse idea. Our winter days can run about 25 degrees F (minus 4 C.), with nights often going to minus 15 degrees F. (minus 26 C). With some serious insulation, I might be able to get that concept going. I had not thought about using heating pads. I can test my doghouse construction with water bottles. If they do not freeze at night. then the battery should be okay.

I know nothing about that other stuff. For any real discussion off-topic, PM me here and we can talk without stepping on any toes.

 

[JerryB]

JerryB,

Yeah, I'm a disabled vet, living on a small pension. A house fire, especially with lithium, would wreck my whole life. I could not afford the local rental housing. Zoning would not allow me to rebuild here after a fire, even if I had the money - the lot is too small to suit the local codes.
Don't want a donkey (they are messy . . .), and there's that zoning thing again. An ebike would get me out and about more. Happy thought!
Cheaper than gasoline, anyway. Winters are freezing cold here, so I can't keep lithium batteries outside for half of the year.
Hoping to find safer batteries. There must be something more capable than lead-acid, but I just don't know enough now. Thanks.

Red.....thanks for your service. Just having some fun....nothing personal. Hope you find what you are looking for......donkey's are cute....we use to have three. Best wishes.

 

[lmx1111]

I am currently using the unitpackpower battery, it is safe and reliable, and the price is good I recommend it!
Meanwhile, if you want an electric bike or an electric scooter, I highly recommend shengmilobikes and xtron.

 

[red]

LMX1111,

Thanks, but as I said in post #1, I really can't take any risk of a house fire, and winters are below freezing here. Can't leave Li-on batteries outside. I'm seriously considering the suggestion by HumanPerson above, getting a (heated) outdoors doghouse to store the batteries. I'm also hoping to see solid-state or some other new battery technology come into the picture soon. Some of those are claiming lighter weight, less cost, and longer ranges.; so far, though, it's all vaporware unlesss you are a major car maker. I'm waiting as fast as I can . . .

 

[Hoggdoc]

I've participated in competitive cycling since 1996, riding motorcycles since 1999
and converting regular MTBs & DH bikes into ebikes since 2013; nearly dozen of them, some well capable of 45-50 mph.
I've purchased nearly a dozen of ebikes & batteries from China from direct factory like Alibaba & Aliexpress since 2017.
I've commuted in NYC metro on bicycles since 2014, on ebikes since 2017, logged over 4-5k miles on different Chinese ebikes since.
Never have I had a battery explode, leak, catch fire or any other mishap that endanger my residence or garage.

Though there are plenty of online videos or reports, as NYC resident & commuter, I have never witnessed any ebike battery caught on fire.
Sure there are dangers with batteries, but with a little knowledge, caution & prevention, batteries can be plenty safe; no different from storage of a can of gasoline or other flammables fuel.

I totally agree with these comments. I think the reports of e bike battery fires are overdone. If you take care of the battery and purchase one with quality cells I think there is little to no cause for concern when it comes to fires. But saying that it is always better to be safe when you are charging any battery, even lead acid.

 

[Erica]

I've been researching batteries recently and found out about unit pack power they have the unitpackpower US site and the unitpackpower EU site. I live in the US now, but I need to go to France next week, which website do you recommend me to buy from? How do you feel about their batteries?