Retired and new to ebikes

I don't think you need a front derailleur. Having no experience with ebikes and seeing that video probably makes it sound cool, but a mid-drive using just the rear derailleur will do exactly what you need it to do. Bafang makes great mid-drives and they are not expensive. Get yourself whatever stock fat tire bike that you like, and measure the bottom bracket (where the pedal assembly inserts), and find a Bafang BBS series mid-drive motor to fit it. Mine was actually a little too small for my bike, but an angle grinder took care of that. Just be careful to avoid the welds if you have to trim it. I got a Mongoose Malice fat tire bike, some Origin 8 Supercell road tires, Bafang BBS-HD 1000w mid drive. And a LOT of custom work over a period of 7+ years. This bike has been through hell and back and still it's more badass than anything you can buy pre-built. These Bafang motors do _have_ PAS, like I think all ebike motors have it. ZBut you are not required to use it, and you can just turn it off. My is turned off, i'm throttle only. My bike is big and heavy. And the other guy is right, it will take some distance to stop. Get yourself some good brakes, get used to the stopping distance, and check your brakes regularly. I buy new brake pads in packs of 12. This is my everyday vehicle, I go through brakes like Charlie Sheen goes through powder.
 

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procreator,

Thanks, I really have little information on what is out there now. I really like to hear from people riding with that kit, especially if they are in hill country.
 
I burnt up 2 of that exact kit in 2 years.
edit: To be accurate, i had hall sensor failures on 2 of those in 2 years. That's when I switched to the Bafang mid-drive, and it has been going good for 5 years since.
Good to know.
 
Darn it @Plissken you got me wanting to build a fat tire ebike :p
Having 7+ years of experience with this bike, it is awesome. When I built it, I was the only person in town with an ebike. I would get 4-5 people per day wanting to stop me and ask about it. Now it seems like half the town owns ebikes. But mine is still hands down the most awesome bike in town. But there are a few things I would change...

-The fat tires are great for high-speed riding in traffic. You need good traction and good brakes. If someone cuts you off you need to be able to stop on a dime. But 4'' fat tires is overkill. The tires are heavy and they don't need to be that big. I would recommend 2.5 or 3'' tires.
-Another issue with the 4'' fat tire bikes is the parts. They really don't make pro-quality parts for fat tire bikes. You can't just go out and buy a new rear axle hub. I had to tear apart the hub, and replaced the bearings with high-speed machine bearings of matching size, and I had to make my own new axel because I could not find one long enough. In case you are wondering you can buy the BBS (British Bicycle Standard) 28 TPI thread tap and die tools from Tracy Tools out of the UK. But keep in mind these tools are typically sold to manufacturers, not consumers. So you are expected to know how to use it, they won't be giving you an instruction book. And I would not expect a good return policy although I didn't try to return anything with them.
-Wheel size does not account for tire size. I've always ridden a 26'' bike my whole life. So when I bought this bike I got 26''. Well, those tires are 4'' thick, not just 4'' wide. So those 26'' rims are 34'' with the tires on. That bike is very big and very tall.

Ideally, I would like to get a 24'' fat bike with 3'' tires. It would be a bit lighter, and with the tires included it would have 30'' wheels which is still big for a MTB, but much better than 34''. I would also like a rear suspension but that would restrict my battery capacity, and really just the front shocks are fine, so as long as I want the triangular frame battery I guess I have to deal with no rear shocks. But if you are willing to get a top tube mounted battery, or maybe a rack mounted battery, then you could get something with a rear shock absorber.
 
DNG here, looking to learn. About me: Fair electronics experience, long-ago bike technician, new to ebike power systems. Long-time motorcycle rider, but now I want something greener. Searching for a reasonably-priced fat-tire ebike; recommendations welcome here. I'd prefer gearing that helps the motor, not just the rider. Do not want pedal-assist (that much, I do know). :cool: Thanks . . .
If you have around $2k or a little more I would avoid off the shelf Chinese Ebikes. My own personal experience, and the research I've done, seems to show there's a fairly high likelihood of getting a bad bike with no warranty or customer support to fall back on. They all claim to have warranties and customer support but that rarely seems to be the reality. I've been checking out this https://www.biktrix.com/products/stunner-x-6 recently to replace the Rattan I stupidly bought. Trustpilot and this forum are good places to start imo, wish Id known before buying mine. Avoid YouTube and most reviews/reviewers. Ime they're all paid, at least in swag and cannot be trusted. I'm sure there are exceptions but I haven't found them. Good luck!
 
If you have around $2k or a little more I would avoid off the shelf Chinese Ebikes. My own personal experience, and the research I've done, seems to show there's a fairly high likelihood of getting a bad bike with no warranty or customer support to fall back on. They all claim to have warranties and customer support but that rarely seems to be the reality. I've been checking out this https://www.biktrix.com/products/stunner-x-6 recently to replace the Rattan I stupidly bought. Trustpilot and this forum are good places to start imo, wish Id known before buying mine. Avoid YouTube and most reviews/reviewers. Ime they're all paid, at least in swag and cannot be trusted. I'm sure there are exceptions but I haven't found them. Good luck!
Also ime alot, if not most, pedal assist bikes can be ridden throttle only. At least the dozen or so I've ridden are capable
 
Hoggdoc,

Thanks. Your assumptions are correct, AFAIK. Being new to ebikes, I left my hopes a bit open-ended, because I do not want to exclude any ideas or things that I do not know about. If you look back at the videos I have linked, it seems like that DIY mid-drive works as I would hope: throttle on demand, with no pedaling needed at all. It appears to be a straight throttle system, with a freewheel for the pedals. Of course I could add foot-power as I wish, but otherwise it works like a motorcycle. A system like that would be fine for me, but if there is also a PAS or similar option, I could accept that, as long as I can completely ignore that function if I choose. Throttle on demand may be just what I want. The CYC conversion kits do check most of my boxes, except the prices are steep.

One motor system that uses the bike gearing would be a mid-drive, again to my limited knowledge, but if there are any alternatives, I'm game. Hub motors are fine for level cruising, but I do not believe they can pull the hills we have here. I would expect that even a mid-drive would not be sprinting uphill here. That would be fine, though, as long as it does not quit on me. To be more specific, I do not expect long range for my initial purchase. If necessary, I can add a second battery later for longer trips, but not right now. Dollars count, here. Thanks again. :cool:
Not sure where you are in the Rockies but parts of Denver are pretty hilly and I've had no problems climbing, throttle only, with a rear hub motor. I still like mid better and non folding fat tires. I've test ridden, my friends, at least a dozen brands & models and like the stability of fixed frames and balance of mid drives but that may be a personal preference
 
Thanks, everybody. Wishin' I knew more, but I will get there with some help here. I found a beefy MTB for cheap at a thrift shop, with front and rear suspension. Needs tires, which kept the price low, but that's fine by me. So far, the Bafang HD mid drive is looking good to me, and I can do the conversion, no sweat. Still open to more info here, of course, and Thanks again.
 
Thanks, everybody. Wishin' I knew more, but I will get there with some help here. I found a beefy MTB for cheap at a thrift shop, with front and rear suspension. Needs tires, which kept the price low, but that's fine by me. So far, the Bafang HD mid drive is looking good to me, and I can do the conversion, no sweat. Still open to more info here, of course, and Thanks again.
A couple things to note about the Bafang motors.
-They are Chinese. They are good quality, but I would not count on a good warranty or customer support. I have not had any reason to deal with that, but I wouldn't expect much if I had to.
-And the internal gear grease is not great. I was warned about this ahead of time, and the person who told me was spot on. When you first get it, the gears will grind and make a sort of buzz/hum sound. That is because they used cheap grease. You can open the motor up with an allen wrench, and apply some high quality grease. I used Mobile 1 synthetic grease. Red and Tacky #2 is just as good. Being a motorcycle guy, i'm sure you know what to do already. You probably read the first sentence and were already thinking "where did I put that can of grease".

On the other hand, in 7 years the only problems I have had is hall sensors in those hub motors failing. The mid-drive uses an external sensor which can simply be unplugged and replaced. And mine has yet to fail. So personally I will take any mid-drive over a hub. Hubs do give a bit more torque which is good on hills. But a 1000w mid drive is more than capable of taking the biggest hills where I live at 20+ mph even on my extremely heavy bike. And I don't even use the gear cassette. In fact I removed my derailleur and replaced it with a brass sliding door roller on a chain tensioner arm.
 
It sounds like you have a very similar background and criteria that I did. I settled on an Ariel Rider X-52. So far, I am good with my decision.
Not sure where you are in the Rockies but parts of Denver are pretty hilly and I've had no problems climbing, throttle only, with a rear hub motor. I still like mid better and non folding fat tires. I've test ridden, my friends, at least a dozen brands & models and like the stability of fixed frames and balance of mid drives but that may be a personal preference
As far as hub drives and hills, I can say that my 750 watt hub motor does extremely well in the E.TN hills. We have a lot of them, and if I didn't ride hills there wouldn't be any riding at all. I was planning on a mid drive build, but I really like how the EP-2 Pro performs, and so far I'm digging the hub drive. Love the Hum of the little motor, that's so darn efficient, and makes riding so much more fun, until you run out of "juice".
 
Check out the Lectric XPremium, mid drive, 2 batteries and hydraulic brakes for $1600. I'm about to buy 2 of them if no one here talks me out of it! I'm a new guy too.


DNG here, looking to learn. About me: Fair electronics experience, long-ago bike technician, new to ebike power systems. Long-time motorcycle rider, but now I want something greener. Searching for a reasonably-priced fat-tire ebike; recommendations welcome here. I'd prefer gearing that helps the motor, not just the rider. Do not want pedal-assist (that much, I do know). :cool: Thanks . . .
 
So what sprocsjhuyy
A couple things to note about the Bafang motors.
-They are Chinese. They are good quality, but I would not count on a good warranty or customer support. I have not had any reason to deal with that, but I wouldn't expect much if I had to.
-And the internal gear grease is not great. I was warned about this ahead of time, and the person who told me was spot on. When you first get it, the gears will grind and make a sort of buzz/hum sound. That is because they used cheap grease. You can open the motor up with an allen wrench, and apply some high quality grease. I used Mobile 1 synthetic grease. Red and Tacky #2 is just as good. Being a motorcycle guy, i'm sure you know what to do already. You probably read the first sentence and were already thinking "where did I put that can of grease".

On the other hand, in 7 years the only problems I have had is hall sensors in those hub motors failing. The mid-drive uses an external sensor which can simply be unplugged and replaced. And mine has yet to fail. So personally I will take any mid-drive over a hub. Hubs do give a bit more torque which is good on hills. But a 1000w mid drive is more than capable of taking the biggest hills where I live at 20+ mph even on my extremely heavy bike. And I don't even use the gear cassette. In fact I removed my derailleur and replaced it with a brass sliding door roller on a chain tensioner arm.
So what gear do you use then? I like your thought process!
 
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