Recumbent eBikes (not trikes) are rare as hen's teeth, eh?

[Smaug]

When I search for a recumbent eBike, there are precious few, and the ones available are multi-thousand dollars.

I read an article on sports injuries yesterday that suggests perineal pressure is a serious health concern. This is inevitable on traditional upright bicycles. (though there are ways to control it)

I know they're more complicated and take more materials than a traditional bike, but even so, I feel like we should have some options below $2k. Seems like it's an unfilled niche.

 

[Member 4888]

When I search for a recumbent eBike, there are precious few, and the ones available are multi-thousand dollars. Is it an unfilled niche or am I missing something?

Mostly just a poor riding choice for anyone that doesn't actually need one.

 

[Smaug]

Since you replied only seconds after I posted, I know you didn't read the article to which I linked.
A lot of cyclists, especially long-distance ones, seem to have problems related to long-term perineal pressure.

Mostly just a poor riding choice for anyone that doesn't actually need one.

 

[Member 4888]

Since you replied only seconds after I posted, I know you didn't read the article to which I linked.
A lot of cyclists, especially long-distance ones, seem to have problems related to long-term perineal pressure.

I've read it before. I dislike recumbents because of the danger to others, they ride too low to be easily seen by others sharing biking and pedestrian infrastructure and I have seen some scary close calls. They are also bad at carrying any gear whatsoever. As far as the article... everyone is different, I'd try different saddles and their positions, maybe even a bobblehead seat post before buying a poor frame design.

 

[Smaug]

I've read it before. I dislike recumbents because of the danger to others, they ride too low to be easily seen by others sharing biking and pedestrian infrastructure and I have seen some scary close calls.

Not all recumbents are low. Trikes are the lowest, since the rider usually sits between two of the wheels. At least 50% of the time recumbent riders sail an orange flag to help with visibility.

They are also bad at carrying any gear whatsoever.

That's true.

As far as the article... everyone is different, I'd try different saddles and their positions, maybe even a bobblehead seat post before buying a poor frame design.

I wouldn't say it is a "poor frame design", it just has different priorities. It spreads the load of the rider across a much wider area, and allows the rider to pedal against his back instead of just gravity, so he can have more power for "free". It sacrifices compactness, lightness, and cargo-carrying capability for these strengths; it's classical design compromise. If you don't care about those advantages, that's fine, but you don't need to put it down just because it's not for you.

 

[Member 4888]

...At least 50% of the time recumbent riders sail an orange flag to help with visibility... ...you don't need to put it down just because it's not for you.

Odd that with all the riding I've done in the last decade that I disagree with everything you said, especially the flag! I WISH they all had flags, better yet that flaps are mandated for the safety of the rider and those around them. Actually, most recumbent riders shun using a flag like there is a stigma attached to them. By "spreads the load" do you mean has a truck seat... ok, sure and I said if a recumbent is the only way for someone to enjoy riding they are great. As far as the "more power for "free"" thing (not sure what that means at all), there isn't a problem with having enough "power" with an ebike, the motor negates what you think is a design strength. I'm not putting anything down I just think they are a poor choice as an ebike for those that don't need one.

 

["A"]

Wife & I have been riding recumbents since 2003, after returning to cycling from an injury.
I started with a $400 recumbent that was found on local Craigslist.
In 2004, I found two SWB, USS Vison R40 recumbents on separate Craigslist ads, under $500 each.
It took me about 500 miles on a recumbent to develop my recumbent legs, specific group of muscles that allows me to pedal smoothly, be more efficient on climbs.
For any ride that's longer than 2 hours of saddle time, I prefer riding a recumbent over an upright, diamond framed bicycle.
Recumbents are just more comfortable and when you finish the ride there are far less aches & sores.


Diamond framed bicycles outnumber recumbent probably ten million to one worldwide, for that reason the bicycle manufacturers don't like to mass produce them.
Once a production run is over, factories don't usually retool for something that doesn't take off in the market.
Shipping cost for odd sized recumbent boxes are also costly to manufacturers.
More than likely, when major bicycle manufacturers (TREK & Cannondale) try their hands in recumbent, they usually lose money in every single one they sold.
When bike production require intensive labor & tooling; even if you have the means to produce the (recumbent) bikes, but profit is still not there when compared to regular bicycles.
Hence the low availability of recumbents in the market.

Wife & I enjoy our Vision R40 so much, I converted them from USS to OSS, take up less storage room and more intuitive steering.

Back in 2008, I found two Bike Friday SatRDay recumbents at about 1/2 of their original cost.
They each fold down and pack into their own suitcase.
The suit cases actually convert into trailers that gets pulled behind the recumbents.
We took these recumbents with us while traveling overseas.

Over the years wife & I have gone to recumbent rallies, HPV speed record attempts in Death Valley.
We've sampled many different types of recumbent bikes & trikes.
We even got ourselves a semi-recumbent tandem in 2008.

Wife & I still ride our Vision R40 recumbents about 400-500 miles a year, mostly on longer (60+ mile) rides.
It's a great feeling about a long ride, you get off your recumbent and still be able to function, drink & party; while riders on upright bikes seem more tired.
Bike Friday recumbent don't get ridden as much since COVID, we have not felt the need to travel overseas with our recumbents.

I have not felt the need to convert a recumbent into a ebike, but I think I will just wait a few years for better tech to come out.

If you have questions about recumbents, let me know if I can be at any help.

 

["A"]

Interesting video, 40000 km on a solar powered, regen recumbent ebike:


Solar, pedal/row recumbent tandem trike touring:

 

[Smaug]

Very cool. Thanks for sharing!

 

[LightningP38]

When I search for a recumbent eBike, there are precious few, and the ones available are multi-thousand dollars.

I read an article on sports injuries yesterday that suggests perineal pressure is a serious health concern. This is inevitable on traditional upright bicycles. (though there are ways to control it)

I know they're more complicated and take more materials than a traditional bike, but even so, I feel like we should have some options below $2k. Seems like it's an unfilled niche.

I found the same lack of choices for a bent ebike. So I added an eassist kit to my 20 year old Lightning P38. Luv it. I used to have to walk up hills due to heart issue. Now, no problem. The ride got harsher with the stiffer rear wheel with the motor in it, but otherwise a great ride.

So I bought a like new 20 year old full suspension Vision R42 for $400 and put a kit on it…an amazing ride. The rear dropouts needed modification to keep the wheel from being pulled out of the dropouts, and I will test it out next season. Otherwise, I will get a 20” wheel with motor for the front and get it going.

 

[HumanPerson]

Welcome to the forums @LightningP38

 

[LightningP38]

When I search for a recumbent eBike, there are precious few, and the ones available are multi-thousand dollars.

I read an article on sports injuries yesterday that suggests perineal pressure is a serious health concern. This is inevitable on traditional upright bicycles. (though there are ways to control it)

I know they're more complicated and take more materials than a traditional bike, but even so, I feel like we should have some options below $2k. Seems like it's an unfilled niche.

I bought a short wheelbase recumbent in 1999. A Lightning P-38 with 700c rear wheel. I put 18,000 miles on the bike in about 10 years. It is a well balanced bike, climbs like a goat, descends fast, comfortable to ride. Did several century rides on it, and my personal record for distance in one day was 150 miles.
It is hard to find a used one for sale, because owners keep them for a lifetime, as I have done. After 2 heart attacks on bike rides, I added an ekit to the bike so I wouldn’t have to walk up hills. The kit is from ebikekits.com, and I mounted it to the bike. The hub drive wheel is very stiff and made the ride a bit harsh.

So I bought a used 1999 Vision full suspension swb for $300 to give me a luxurious ride. I moved the kit over to the Vision, and it is a great ride. So for the $1,200 ekit and the $300 bike, I have a really nice recumbent ebike for $1,500.

What most riders fail to understand is that 80% of your energy biking is used to push yourself through the air. The recumbent position is more aerodynamic and gives you more distance or speed vs. an upright bike. Also, there is no wrist pain or butt pain riding a recumbent. Both of my recumbents have plenty of storage, with a large seat bag and a rear rack for the battery and a trunk bag.

 

[CrossRoads]

I would argue with the "more complicated and take more material than a traditional bike". I mean, the seat is complicated, and the weird handle-bar mechanism, sure, but otherwise pretty much a bike with different geometry. They cost more primarily for one reason only, and that is there are fewer made and the makers miss out on the economics of large batch manuracturing. If they were manufactured at the same rate as an average diamond-frame they'd cost perhaps 20% more than one. For that reason, recumbents, new msrp, start at $2000 and go up, so you're looking at an entry price of $4000 after the electric system and battery, if you were going to DIY an electro-bent.

There is also simply the long-standing bike-cultural bias that diamond fames are better because that's what the racing industry uses, even though everyone in the Tour de France would be using a recument if they were legal. The reason they aren't is because of the aerodynamic advantage. 'Bents hold every single bicycle world record. There is simply no contest between the two when it comes to speed and performance.

The perenial nerve thing isn't the main advantage of a bent or the main reason 'bent enthusiasts ride them, in my opinion. It's a welcome benefit but not the deal breaker. The advantages are many-fold. Some folks with back issues say bent's are better for lower lumbar pain. There's also just the general feeling of chill you get when you're reclined at stop-light sipping a coffee or just stopping on the shoulder to noodle with your phone and have a snack and don't feel the need to "get off the bike" to have a break because being on the bike is literally sitting in a reclining chair. But the main benefit to me is the aerodynamics.

Aerodynamics isn't that apparent for normal-people-cyclists on non-electrics, cruising around at 15-20 mph, where you might get a 5 - 10% efficiency gain, but because wind resistance is a function of v-squared, and power demanded is a function of v-cubed, the aerodynamic benifit becomes MUCH more apparent on a 30 mph e-bike and even more for moped-type speeds. For that reason, I had once predicted that the electric-assist revolution would suddenly thrust recumbents into the mainstream. I was wrong about that prediction, but I guess it never ceases to amaze me how the general public fails to recognize real value, or to value pragmatism over trendy myths. I think the main reason 'bents aren't mainstream is they are dorky looking. I mean, let's be honest, aesthetically they are about as dorky as crocks with socks.

On my high-speed high-range recumbent, i'm typically cruising at 35 mph, sometimes 40 (yes this isn't strictly legal, but cops around here don't care), and consuming 33 wh per mile, so I can get an 80 mile range on a 72v 40 amp-hour battery. At some point I would like to get more sciency about how that compares to an upright with the same electric sytem and battery cruising at similar speeds, but i would be willing to bet my range is better by 25% simply by being a recumbent when compared to an upright e-moped with sloshy tires like the Onyx. Because real range is so dependent on terrain and riding style, I would have to do that on a similar trip at similar speeds and I'm not sure how to make that happen.

As for safety, high-racers are becoming more common now in the 'bent community. In fact, the Bacchetta, which is what i ride, is the most common bent-e-bike mod on this forum. The high-racer profile puts you at about the same seated position or a little taller than your average sedan, so you're more or less the same visibility profile as a car, and still gets you most of the aerodynamic benefit of being on a bent. I don't see any need to use a flag in that case. The "low-racer" profile is definitly a concern. I would never ride a low-racer in traffic, but I think of low-racers as being a niche thing for track racing and faired recumbent hpv's, since being low to the ground does give you yet another aerodynamic bump over the same profile at higher elevation. I also think there is a safety advantage to recumbents in any sort of head-on collision where you are leading with your feat, or any sort of pealing out or sliding-out accident where you'll be sliding down the road on your ass and will never go head-over heals. The most common upright injury, a collar-bone, never happens on a bent.

Also, for what it's worth, you absolutely can put cargo on a recumbent if you have a rack, duh. I regularly take 30-40 pounds of carpentry tools on my rack, which can take two sets of panniers, a set of full-sized ortliebs up top and a set of smaller "front" panniers on the bottom. I made my rack custom, to put the bigger panniers in the wind-shadow of the seat, but you can put a standard touring rack on a bent and have the panniers by the rear wheel, and a standard front rack on the fork.

Speaking of cargo, I don't know why the "long tail" concept hasn't been tried with a bent. Seems pretty obvious to me: lengthen the tail of the bike by 12" or so, bring the rear wheel down to 20", and make a big tail-box bin sitting in the wind-shadow of the seat.

 

[LightningP38]

I've read it before. I dislike recumbents because of the danger to others, they ride too low to be easily seen by others sharing biking and pedestrian infrastructure and I have seen some scary close calls. They are also bad at carrying any gear whatsoever. As far as the article... everyone is different, I'd try different saddles and their positions, maybe even a bobblehead seat post before buying a poor frame design.

My bents are the typical swb bents. You sit mostly upright, so my head is the same height as the head of an upright rider that is down on the drop bar. So I don’t buy your visibility issue. If you are talking about low racers, then I would agree with your visibility issue.
As far as carrying gear, I carry a factory seat bag that holds more gear than any upright bike without a rack. If I add a rack, I can carry double what the average upright rider carries.

As far as comfort goes: After 12 miles on an upright bike, I get wrist pain. After 100 miles on my bent, no wrist pain. After 150 miles on my bent no wrist pain. On an upright, after 25 miles my butt starts to feel it, after 50 miles my butt wants off the saddle. On my bent after 50 miles no butt pain, after 100 miles no butt pain, etc.
So the frame design is better for bents than uprights, isn’t it!

Guys that buy a Lightning P38 in their 50s keep them as their main bike until they can no longer bike. That is why you rarely see used ones for sale. I bought mine in 1999 and it is still my best Ike.

I added an ekit to my P38, to get me an extra 10 more years of riding it, due to my health issues.

 

[dburt]

You don't see them very often, someone out there with business sense and some sharp designers and fabricators could enter the market with an EV semi-recumbent trike and likely do well. The somewhat recumbent trike that Addmotor makes with a front motor comes the closest, but I would not want a front motor due to traction and handling issues.

 

[CrossRoads]

I agree, although i would point out that while a trike is probably an easier thing for a "normal person" to hop on and ride, compared to a 2 wheeled 'bent, the trike platform has a number of is problems that make it a hard sell. If you're high up and off the ground, like the addmotor, then you have to be carful not to tip / flip on corners. Pretty good set-up for someone that wants to not go very fast, and carry cargo. I've seen some really great electric cargo trikes with a big truck-beds in back, but... cornering at speed is problematic. For that reason 'bent enthusiasts tend to prefer the low-rider profile on a tadpole trike, which is amazing for stability at speed and aerodynamics etc., I mean you can really rip around a corner on those things, whollly moley, but now you have the low-vis issue of a low-racer which would make me personally want to only ever use one on bike paths and country roads with good shoulders and low traffic. Someday when we've created ecotopia and outlawed automobiles and every road is a country road, you'll find me on a tadpole E-trike. In this world, I want to be seen by cars and split lanes to get through bumper to bumper traffic and be able to agressively corner to get out of harm's way, and so the best compromise is a SWB recumbent.