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highroad 2
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- 4:46 PM
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- Jul 22, 2020
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Is that Haibike a 2018 model with a Bosch CX motor.
If so, I am questioning if $4300 is really that good of a deal.
I have been riding a 2017 Haibike Almtn 7.0 full suspension for 3 years and over 2000 miles of single track.
The bike has served me very well other than wearing out several chains, cassettes and brake pads.
My bike has 150 mm F and R suspension whereas it appears the 9.0 only has 120 mm.
The 9.0 has integrated battery and dropper post which are pluses.
For $4300 I would consider a mid range Fezzari Wire Peak ($4600) or a Specialized Levo for around the same money
Anything with more suspension travel and maybe more modern geometry.
If so, I am questioning if $4300 is really that good of a deal.
I have been riding a 2017 Haibike Almtn 7.0 full suspension for 3 years and over 2000 miles of single track.
The bike has served me very well other than wearing out several chains, cassettes and brake pads.
My bike has 150 mm F and R suspension whereas it appears the 9.0 only has 120 mm.
The 9.0 has integrated battery and dropper post which are pluses.
For $4300 I would consider a mid range Fezzari Wire Peak ($4600) or a Specialized Levo for around the same money
Anything with more suspension travel and maybe more modern geometry.
Hi highroad, Thank you for the feed back and those are some great points.
It is a 19 with the CX motor. But it is the "LT" so it too has 150 mm of travel front and rear. I had been looking at the Giant Trance E at $4600 but when I do a side by side on the two, it appears to me that the Haibike has better components in the area of shock and forks. (Most other bike components of the two are nearly identical and then of course you have the Bosch vs Yamaha and I am pretty sure I could be happy with either)
I also took a close look at the geometry of those two and while they are close, the Haibike is going to fit me a bit better. "More modern geometry" used to sound good to me until I realized it had me stretched out over the bike. The Haibike Xduro line is like that and very uncomfortable to me.
Neither the Fezzari nor the Specialized were on my radar. I will take a look. Thank you.
Edit,
OK the Levo is out. First they are out of stock and second it is a 29er. I have a 29er and I'm not thrilled with it so I am going 27.5.
The Fezzari is for sure a contender. Thanks
It is a 19 with the CX motor. But it is the "LT" so it too has 150 mm of travel front and rear. I had been looking at the Giant Trance E at $4600 but when I do a side by side on the two, it appears to me that the Haibike has better components in the area of shock and forks. (Most other bike components of the two are nearly identical and then of course you have the Bosch vs Yamaha and I am pretty sure I could be happy with either)
I also took a close look at the geometry of those two and while they are close, the Haibike is going to fit me a bit better. "More modern geometry" used to sound good to me until I realized it had me stretched out over the bike. The Haibike Xduro line is like that and very uncomfortable to me.
Neither the Fezzari nor the Specialized were on my radar. I will take a look. Thank you.
Edit,
OK the Levo is out. First they are out of stock and second it is a 29er. I have a 29er and I'm not thrilled with it so I am going 27.5.
The Fezzari is for sure a contender. Thanks
Good idea if you think you’ll be satisfied with the bike long term and aren’t going to ride anything too radical. One thing I don’t like about my Haibike LT Seven 4.0 is that it has a fairly steep head angle, by modern standards, so it’s a little less stable than I’d like sometimes. I tolerate this because I need a bike with a shortish top tube which is hard to find, plus I don’t want to spend more money.
highroad 2
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- Local time
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- Jul 22, 2020
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Something else to keep in mind is that the 19 you are looking at most likely still has the Bosch Gen 3 motor that has the very small front chain ring. That small chain ring (mine came with an 18t and I went with a 14t) is the curse of the Gen 3 Bosch.
Notice that the latest Bosch Gen 4 fixed the curse and went to a normal size chain ring which i call 30-34t.
The smaller the diameter the chain rings, the more wear and tear on the chain.
i mentioned that I have gone thru many chains and cassettes and that tiny chain ring is the reason, and the reason Bosch finally got smart.
Up thru the Gen 3, the Bosch motor had a 2-1/2 to 1 internal reduction which required them to use the smaller than normal chain rings.
So the 18t that my Haibike came with is really a 45t.
What serious mountain bike used to climb has any where near a 45t chainring?
Going to a 14t calculates into a 35t, which is still too tall geared for the steep climbing the bike is capable of and I like to ride.
i then went with a 10-50 Eagle cluster to get a decent climb gearing.
Bosch tried to convince the market that with assist, lower gearing was not needed.
That is true until the climb becomes technical and you are weaving around rocks and ruts and need cadence to not stall out
Notice that the latest Bosch Gen 4 fixed the curse and went to a normal size chain ring which i call 30-34t.
The smaller the diameter the chain rings, the more wear and tear on the chain.
i mentioned that I have gone thru many chains and cassettes and that tiny chain ring is the reason, and the reason Bosch finally got smart.
Up thru the Gen 3, the Bosch motor had a 2-1/2 to 1 internal reduction which required them to use the smaller than normal chain rings.
So the 18t that my Haibike came with is really a 45t.
What serious mountain bike used to climb has any where near a 45t chainring?
Going to a 14t calculates into a 35t, which is still too tall geared for the steep climbing the bike is capable of and I like to ride.
i then went with a 10-50 Eagle cluster to get a decent climb gearing.
Bosch tried to convince the market that with assist, lower gearing was not needed.
That is true until the climb becomes technical and you are weaving around rocks and ruts and need cadence to not stall out
I'm not at all worried about HT angle as I usually just jump over or manual through the nasty stuff.
LOL
Actually, I am old and slow and VERY conservative. My body is so full of plates and pins that I have to register as a mobile hardware store with the IRS for tax purposes.
Sounds like mechanically though, you have not had any real problems.
LOL
Actually, I am old and slow and VERY conservative. My body is so full of plates and pins that I have to register as a mobile hardware store with the IRS for tax purposes.
Sounds like mechanically though, you have not had any real problems.
I thought it was a 2:1 ratio. Either way, I did notice the small chain ring and I recognize the added wear to that chain ring and chain as well as that idler gear.
I would love to have the latest and greatest and that is one reason I have been slow to jump into the ebike market.....at this point, we are almost guaranteed that whatever we buy will be outdated during the next model year.
So basically, what I am getting from this thread and other research is that the Haibike FullSeven is a good bike with no obvious or know mechanical QC issues but it is very clearly, last year's technology...or the years before.
Looks like if I pull the trigger, I will be saving money but picking up a bit more maintenance with chain ring and probably idler gear replacements. Before you brought this up I happened across a video showing how that is done and it is pretty simple. But I need to buy the special socket. I believe my current crank arm puller will work.
One good thing is that Bosch is local to me (So Cal) and they produce and sell a kit to replace the motor bearings when necessary after the two year warranty.
A lot to think about. A lot of different bikes, all with different components with a variety of motors - Yamaha, Shimano, Bosch etc.......
I would love to have the latest and greatest and that is one reason I have been slow to jump into the ebike market.....at this point, we are almost guaranteed that whatever we buy will be outdated during the next model year.
So basically, what I am getting from this thread and other research is that the Haibike FullSeven is a good bike with no obvious or know mechanical QC issues but it is very clearly, last year's technology...or the years before.
Looks like if I pull the trigger, I will be saving money but picking up a bit more maintenance with chain ring and probably idler gear replacements. Before you brought this up I happened across a video showing how that is done and it is pretty simple. But I need to buy the special socket. I believe my current crank arm puller will work.
One good thing is that Bosch is local to me (So Cal) and they produce and sell a kit to replace the motor bearings when necessary after the two year warranty.
A lot to think about. A lot of different bikes, all with different components with a variety of motors - Yamaha, Shimano, Bosch etc.......
Hmmm, as I read through this thread again I am thinking maybe I should just go with the Giant Trance E3 which I was originally looking at. It is only a couple hundred more and uses a standard size chainring which might actually save money in the long run. Also, there are three Giant dealers within riding distance from my house. Only one Haibike dealer and of course Fezzari is in another state.
Just thinking about potential warranty/service issues.
Just thinking about potential warranty/service issues.
Thanks. I think you might have missed a couple of things earlier in this thread. One of my current bikes is a 29er and I am not in love with it all all. In fact, even though it is a nicer newer bike, I often find myself grabbing my 20 year old 26er instead.
Which brings me to geometry, I am also not a huge fan of the longer lower slacker layouts.
That being said, I don't think there is enough difference in the geometry between the Haibike and Giant to push me either way....except at resale as most folks would pine for the "newer geometry."
But the Giant has a couple of features that I do like. One is the control panel and lack of display. My eyes suck so most displays are useless to me. The Hiabike is OK because the info it displays is HUGE and I can actually see/read it.
Giant has the Yamaha which is a great motor but I am guessing I will have to go through my LBS for any post warranty work.
Haibike is Bosch which I am sure I can go through my LBS or directly to Bosch about 40 minutes away.
I like the larger standard chainring on the Giant. However, the small chainring on the Haibike will not be a huge factor for me as I never ride in the rain let alone the mud. But it will definitely require a bit more upkeep.
First World Problem.
Which brings me to geometry, I am also not a huge fan of the longer lower slacker layouts.
That being said, I don't think there is enough difference in the geometry between the Haibike and Giant to push me either way....except at resale as most folks would pine for the "newer geometry."
But the Giant has a couple of features that I do like. One is the control panel and lack of display. My eyes suck so most displays are useless to me. The Hiabike is OK because the info it displays is HUGE and I can actually see/read it.
Giant has the Yamaha which is a great motor but I am guessing I will have to go through my LBS for any post warranty work.
Haibike is Bosch which I am sure I can go through my LBS or directly to Bosch about 40 minutes away.
I like the larger standard chainring on the Giant. However, the small chainring on the Haibike will not be a huge factor for me as I never ride in the rain let alone the mud. But it will definitely require a bit more upkeep.
First World Problem.
OK so..... just got back from some more test rides.
2020 Giant Trance and Stance
2019 Giant Trance (Demo)
2019 Haibike FullSeven 7.0
I think I am going to go with the 20 Giant Trance E3. There was a noticeable difference in the motors. The 20 Giant was easily the quietest and it produced the least amount of drag when the system was off. Might have been related to the sound, but it also felt the smoothest under power.
I had already request they get a FullSeven 9.0 in for me so I will definitely test ride it in a day or so before I make a final decision but as of right now, the 20 Trance is the clear winner for me.
2020 Giant Trance and Stance
2019 Giant Trance (Demo)
2019 Haibike FullSeven 7.0
I think I am going to go with the 20 Giant Trance E3. There was a noticeable difference in the motors. The 20 Giant was easily the quietest and it produced the least amount of drag when the system was off. Might have been related to the sound, but it also felt the smoothest under power.
I had already request they get a FullSeven 9.0 in for me so I will definitely test ride it in a day or so before I make a final decision but as of right now, the 20 Trance is the clear winner for me.
From what a hear the Bosch upgrades are substantial, I bought the AllMtn 2.0 because the black Friday price was too stupid to pass up but the Giant was my first choice. At this point I have almost the same spec for way less money but I would imagine the geometry and tech of the Giant is better than the Haibike.
Oh yeah, I believe you are correct. The 2020 Bosch is a huge improvement over the previous models. But there will not be any great deals on the 2020 Haibikes for a good 10-11 months. The 2020 Giant is also a nice improvement over previous models and I am getting a "family" deal on it so....
It's still a big purchase but I will wait and ride the Haibike one last time before I order the Giant.
It's still a big purchase but I will wait and ride the Haibike one last time before I order the Giant.
Well I just know every member of this forum is watching this thread to find out what I have decided.
So without further ado, today I ordered the 2020 Giant Trance E 1. Should be here tomorrow.
I went back and test rode the Haibike FullSeven LT 9.0 in my size but decided on the Giant for several reasons.
1) I have an unreasonable attraction to Margot Robbie, the Fox 36 fork and the Fox Remote reservoir shock. (getting two out of three aint bad)
2) I like the fact that there is no display to break or crack on the Giant
3) Giant was easier to pedal without power. But I hope I never have to.
4) Giant was noticeably quieter.
5) I did not like the fact I would have to take the Haibike to the dealer to get the front sprocket changed or replaced. On an ebike sprockets, chains and brake pads are high wear items and should be easily replaced by the owner without special tools. IMO
6) Giant was 2020 and Haibike was 2019 which is really like 2016 or maybe earlier tech.
7) I kept getting heal strikes on the Hiabike. I could avoid them when I thought about my foot positioning but they never happened on the Giant.
8) Giant just plain looked cleaner and smoother and more polished and refined. The frame design and cable routing etc was clearly nicer than the Haibike. Also the paint on the Giant is a beautiful glossy finish in subdued colors while the Haibike was flat/satin in rather bright garish colors and I am a low key low profile kind of guy.
9) I have three Giant dealers near my house but only one Haibike dealer.
10) The Giant was only about $1K more, it is way more bike than I need and I know for a fact I will never out grow or out ride it.
FWIW
So without further ado, today I ordered the 2020 Giant Trance E 1. Should be here tomorrow.
I went back and test rode the Haibike FullSeven LT 9.0 in my size but decided on the Giant for several reasons.
1) I have an unreasonable attraction to Margot Robbie, the Fox 36 fork and the Fox Remote reservoir shock. (getting two out of three aint bad)
2) I like the fact that there is no display to break or crack on the Giant
3) Giant was easier to pedal without power. But I hope I never have to.
4) Giant was noticeably quieter.
5) I did not like the fact I would have to take the Haibike to the dealer to get the front sprocket changed or replaced. On an ebike sprockets, chains and brake pads are high wear items and should be easily replaced by the owner without special tools. IMO
6) Giant was 2020 and Haibike was 2019 which is really like 2016 or maybe earlier tech.
7) I kept getting heal strikes on the Hiabike. I could avoid them when I thought about my foot positioning but they never happened on the Giant.
8) Giant just plain looked cleaner and smoother and more polished and refined. The frame design and cable routing etc was clearly nicer than the Haibike. Also the paint on the Giant is a beautiful glossy finish in subdued colors while the Haibike was flat/satin in rather bright garish colors and I am a low key low profile kind of guy.
9) I have three Giant dealers near my house but only one Haibike dealer.
10) The Giant was only about $1K more, it is way more bike than I need and I know for a fact I will never out grow or out ride it.
FWIW
Me too!
Oh yeah, and another thing. I MUCH prefer Shimano over SRAM. So I guess that can be number 11. But wait! There's more. 12) The Giant has slightly lower gearing than the Haibike and at this stage I can use all the help I can get.
Oh yeah, and another thing. I MUCH prefer Shimano over SRAM. So I guess that can be number 11. But wait! There's more. 12) The Giant has slightly lower gearing than the Haibike and at this stage I can use all the help I can get.
I saw a Giant Trance E1 demo bike on the trail and the guy riding it told the Giant demo crew to hold it for me so I rode it back to back with my SDURO on the same trail. It’s much better than the SDURO; especially that rear suspension which gives it goat-like climbing ability. You’ll love it!
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