Mahle X20 System experience?

[nsfbr]

Hi - I just joined the forum, about to pull the trigger on my first e-assist road bike. It's the usual story, I'm a roadie who just crested 60 and don't have enough time to maintain enough fitness to do the rides I want to do without a bit of help, etc. I bought my wife a Topstone NEO 2 last year, with the X35 and it is nice enough (although quite a heavy bike) for her, but I am looking for something on par with my bikes.

I've been reading a bunch on the new Mahle X20 system, which is supposedly exactly what I want - zero drag, bottom bracket torque and cadence sensor to control motor (and I think? an inclination meter as well, but not 100% sure), and very tailorable assist profile.

Anyway, the reason for the post is, first, as stated - I'm looking for any feedback / first hand knowledge of this system. And second, in the very unlikely case anyone has any thoughts on the bike I am likely to plunk down some case on Scott Addict RC eRIDE 10 I would love to get your insights and opinions. My current main ride is also a Scott, a 2017 Solace 10 with 11 Spd Di2. Great bike, and I'll continue to ride it, which is in part why I'm strongly thinking about the eRIDE Addict, which has geometry that is essentially the same.

Thanks for reading.

Update - Bought the bike. It is very, very nice. Apart from an issue that I'm having with getting all the system information that it will put onto the Mahle iPhone app onto my bike computer, I've nothing but praise for it. Considering that I'm coming from a fairly light weight, endurance geometry road bike that is extremely compliant, the weight, all 11kg of it (I know, a feather compared to most ebikes) and the stiffer frame took some getting used to.

 

[th 'fern]

The X20 is fairly new, so not many users to date.
I have an X35 and wish it had the torque sensing option.

Orbea - the brand of ebike I ride, just upgraded all their Gain models to X20.
Good luck.

 

[SuperNeo2022]

The X20 is fairly new, so not many users to date.
I have an X35 and wish it had the torque sensing option.

Orbea - the brand of ebike I ride, just upgraded all their Gain models to X20.
Good luck.

I was told if you pedal reverse the torque will disengage

 

[Hoggdoc]

Hi - I just joined the forum, about to pull the trigger on my first e-assist road bike. It's the usual story, I'm a roadie who just crested 60 and don't have enough time to maintain enough fitness to do the rides I want to do without a bit of help, etc. I bought my wife a Topstone NEO 2 last year, with the X35 and it is nice enough (although quite a heavy bike) for her, but I am looking for something on par with my bikes.

I've been reading a bunch on the new Mahle X20 system, which is supposedly exactly what I want - zero drag, bottom bracket torque and cadence sensor to control motor (and I think? an inclination meter as well, but not 100% sure), and very tailorable assist profile.

Anyway, the reason for the post is, first, as stated - I'm looking for any feedback / first hand knowledge of this system. And second, in the very unlikely case anyone has any thoughts on the bike I am likely to plunk down some case on Scott Addict RC eRIDE 10 I would love to get your insights and opinions. My current main ride is also a Scott, a 2017 Solace 10 with 11 Spd Di2. Great bike, and I'll continue to ride it, which is in part why I'm strongly thinking about the eRIDE Addict, which has geometry that is essentially the same.

Thanks for reading.

Why not start with a conversion of your current road bike? You already and the fit right, add a 350w-500w mid drive system should put you where you want without breaking the bank even if you hire someone to do it for you. You didn't say where you are located so I have no recommendation for you as to where to look for help doing a conversion.

 

[geoffd123]

Hi I have a scott ebike with x35 and just bought a scott ebike 10 with x20 . Just been out once on x20 bike and did 50 miles. I can confirm bikes weigh much the same but the big difference is there is the zero drag and I cycled about 70%with battery off and under and over the 15.5 mph cut off. I usually do 50 miles on x35 on 25% battery on level 1 and obviously a lot over the 15.5mph and used 40% battery same distance on x20 but with 70% with no battery although it did show a limit of 85 mile radius left. But they apparently learn how you cycle/ use battery so will see how it goes. Level 1 was also v powerful so will need to dumb it down which you can now do. First impressions is I like it...but time will tell.

 

[Russ82nd]

I have the Mahle X20 system in my BMC RaodMachine Amp 2. I purchased the bike late October os 2022 after a AFib issue. The bike/Mahle X20 system had been fine for just over 2500 miles. About a month ago the Mahle system died. Doesn't turn or take a charge. Mahle support was pretty much useless. All they could pass onto the LBS was they had never seen this before. After 3 weeks of that from Mahle, BMC stepped up and shipped me a new bike. The new one also has a Mahle component failure right out of the box. It's been a week waiting with this new bike for support from Mahle but not resolved yet! It appears this latest bike has a bad torque sensor.
My personal opinion is I've lost confidence in the new Mahle X20 system and with Mahle's ability to support their product here in the US.

Russ

 

[nsfbr]

I have the Mahle X20 system in my BMC RaodMachine Amp 2. I purchased the bike late October os 2022 after a AFib issue. The bike/Mahle X20 system had been fine for just over 2500 miles. About a month ago the Mahle system died. Doesn't turn or take a charge. Mahle support was pretty much useless. All they could pass onto the LBS was they had never seen this before. After 3 weeks of that from Mahle, BMC stepped up and shipped me a new bike. The new one also has a Mahle component failure right out of the box. It's been a week waiting with this new bike for support from Mahle but not resolved yet! It appears this latest bike has a bad torque sensor.
My personal opinion is I've lost confidence in the new Mahle X20 system and with Mahle's ability to support their product here in the US.

Russ

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience. In the US Mahle support to dealers is via a 3rd party company that takes care of many component suppliers. As you seem to be one of the few e-assist road bike owners here, I have a question for you - what do you use for a bike computer with it? Their phone app is not bad at all, but I do NOT want to be using my phone. Long story short, I bought the bike I was looking at, love it, except that I my current bike computer, which "says" it is compatible, is only kinda sorta. No cadence, no bike power, no rider power. Now I can use one of my other cadence sensors I have kicking around, or buy a new one, but the bike uses my power so not having access to the built in "power meter" (probably not totally accurate) seems a real miss. The reason for the question is to possibly get some insight into whether this is a problem with my bike computer (Sigma Sport ROX 11.1 EVO) or the X20 system. Thanks.

 

[nsfbr]

Why not start with a conversion of your current road bike? You already and the fit right, add a 350w-500w mid drive system should put you where you want without breaking the bank even if you hire someone to do it for you. You didn't say where you are located so I have no recommendation for you as to where to look for help doing a conversion.

I value engineering and design. Without disparaging others' conversions, I am not going to hack my lovely road bike in order to also have an e-assist bike. Oddly enough, the e-assist is for middle distance rides for the most part. Short (<20miles) my main ride is preferred. Long (>50 miles) as well. The e-assist if really about rides where I'm addressing specific needs for which I need support.

 

["A"]

Mahle X20 is still new, likely won't get an honest review of how it operates for another few month.
As a former UCI sanctioned racer, I still have my road bike from 20+ years ago;
I would never try to convert a racing road bike into an e-bike.
I still ride my acoustic multiple road bikes, just not for the same purpose as any of my ebikes.

I ride a 500w hub-motor e-road bike since 2021, generic brand purchased from Alibaba for under $2k.
It's not a lightweight road bike, it's not a high performance e-road bike, but it certainly performs for me.
I'm used to riding hub-motor ebikes with not-so-smooth power output PAS crank sensor, but I never felt that I need to spend thousands more for mid-drive with torque sensor for my road cycling.
I think decades spent on rollers smooth out my pedal power output enough that I have no need for torque sensor on ebikes.

Depending on what your designated usage would be for the e-road bike, I think generally road cyclists getting older and more disposable income for their expensive hobbies, the e-road bike market is really expensive for what mainstream manufacturers offer.
Purist roadies can still frown the usage of a e-road bike on group rides, especially the competitive group rides.

 

[Russ82nd]

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience. In the US Mahle support to dealers is via a 3rd party company that takes care of many component suppliers. As you seem to be one of the few e-assist road bike owners here, I have a question for you - what do you use for a bike computer with it? Their phone app is not bad at all, but I do NOT want to be using my phone. Long story short, I bought the bike I was looking at, love it, except that I my current bike computer, which "says" it is compatible, is only kinda sorta. No cadence, no bike power, no rider power. Now I can use one of my other cadence sensors I have kicking around, or buy a new one, but the bike uses my power so not having access to the built in "power meter" (probably not totally accurate) seems a real miss. The reason for the question is to possibly get some insight into whether this is a problem with my bike computer (Sigma Sport ROX 11.1 EVO) or the X20 system. Thanks.

I paired this bike to my Garmin Edge 530. I was able to see the torque sensor as a power meter. The Gamin did not see the bikes cadence sensor so I used my garmin cadence and speed sensors. The garmin also showed the assist levels though not accurately. The bike has level I, II and III. The garmin shows 3 levels also but not as 1,2 & 3. I believe it showed level 2,5 and 7.
Mahle support in Spain took over the support issues for both bikes and also hasn't been able to resolve either bikes X20 system issues. It's been over a month.
BMC has offered a free upgrade to the new Non-Mahle Drive BMC below. I'll be picking it up tomorrow.

Russ

BMC Roadmachine 01 AMP X TWO USA​

TQ-HPR50 Drive Unit (Class 3)
SRAM Rival XPLR eTap AXS
Pirelli Cinturato Gravel H, 35mm

 

[Jip]

Hi,

Buy a Mondraker Dusty RR with Mahle X20 system, the 27 May.
One day next, error 61 default moteur.
3 weeks without bike and now i need to send the bike to Mahle. In 3 weeks, they only do a differents tests and photos.

Very bad SAV with Mondraker/Mahle...

 

[Scott_M]

I paired this bike to my Garmin Edge 530. I was able to see the torque sensor as a power meter. The Gamin did not see the bikes cadence sensor so I used my garmin cadence and speed sensors. The garmin also showed the assist levels though not accurately. The bike has level I, II and III. The garmin shows 3 levels also but not as 1,2 & 3. I believe it showed level 2,5 and 7.
Mahle support in Spain took over the support issues for both bikes and also hasn't been able to resolve either bikes X20 system issues. It's been over a month.
BMC has offered a free upgrade to the new Non-Mahle Drive BMC below. I'll be picking it up tomorrow.

Russ

BMC Roadmachine 01 AMP X TWO USA​

TQ-HPR50 Drive Unit (Class 3)
SRAM Rival XPLR eTap AXS
Pirelli Cinturato Gravel H, 35mm

My bike computer (Karoo2) didn't initialy see the power meter/cadence sensor as well but after I did the full software update to the x20 system (first updated the smart charger, then bike via the smart charger, then bike again using the Mahle app), the sensors got detected by my karoo2 as a drivetrain sensor delivering both power and cadence via ant+.
Hope this helps.

 

[mclem43]

I paired this bike to my Garmin Edge 530. I was able to see the torque sensor as a power meter. The Gamin did not see the bikes cadence sensor so I used my garmin cadence and speed sensors. The garmin also showed the assist levels though not accurately. The bike has level I, II and III. The garmin shows 3 levels also but not as 1,2 & 3. I believe it showed level 2,5 and 7.
Mahle support in Spain took over the support issues for both bikes and also hasn't been able to resolve either bikes X20 system issues. It's been over a month.
BMC has offered a free upgrade to the new Non-Mahle Drive BMC below. I'll be picking it up tomorrow.

Russ

BMC Roadmachine 01 AMP X TWO USA​

TQ-HPR50 Drive Unit (Class 3)
SRAM Rival XPLR eTap AXS
Pirelli Cinturato Gravel H, 35mm

Hey Russ, how did your new BMC 01 AMP X work out? My new 4 day old BMC Roadmachine AMP Two just died after 128 miles of use. A code 74 popped up as the reason for the failure. Everything went dead and no response. Dealer got in touch with the Mahle part supplier and they think it’s the head control unit. I’ll know if that fixes the issue in few days. Real disappointment after enjoying my Bianchi X35 system. The BMC AMP was great riding bike, no pain in the geometry.

 

[jetway72]

Mahle X20 cadence sensor and Garmin 1030 "fluctuates" values.
Hi everyone, I'm asking for help with a little problem I have on my Scott eride 20 with Mahle X20 engine. Basically, if I travel at a constant cadence, for example 85 rpm, on the Garmin every about 5..6..seconds a value that is displayed is 5 points more or 5 points less (about 80 or 90 randomly)... in short, the value fluctuates a lot... does this happen to you too? I specify that the bike assists the power regularly...just a display problem on the Garmin...thanks in advanced.

 

[Steele]

The X20 is fairly new, so not many users to date.
I have an X35 and wish it had the torque sensing option.

Orbea - the brand of ebike I ride, just upgraded all their Gain models to X20.
Good luck.

All carbon Orbea Gain bikes use X20; alloy frames are still x35 as of 2023 models.

 

[mschwett]

My bike computer (Karoo2) didn't initialy see the power meter/cadence sensor as well but after I did the full software update to the x20 system (first updated the smart charger, then bike via the smart charger, then bike again using the Mahle app), the sensors got detected by my karoo2 as a drivetrain sensor delivering both power and cadence via ant+.
Hope this helps.

hi! nice to hear about someone using the x20 in this way, not much info anywhere online about it.

do you find the "power meter" accurate? i'm coming from a road bike with a 4iiii dual sided crank meter, as well as a specialized e bike with built in power, and the mahle data seems wayyyyyyyyy off. it also seems to be strongly biased to the left leg; since i tend to be about 56/44 right leg biased, that may partially explain the power numbers, but even so the data is very jumpy and probably 10-20% lower than real values. (assuming the 10k miles i have on the well calibrated 4iiii setup is accurate lol)

 

[Capital Singer]

hi! nice to hear about someone using the x20 in this way, not much info anywhere online about it.

do you find the "power meter" accurate? i'm coming from a road bike with a 4iiii dual sided crank meter, as well as a specialized e bike with built in power, and the mahle data seems wayyyyyyyyy off. it also seems to be strongly biased to the left leg; since i tend to be about 56/44 right leg biased, that may partially explain the power numbers, but even so the data is very jumpy and probably 10-20% lower than real values. (assuming the 10k miles i have on the well calibrated 4iiii setup is accurate lol)

Is the average power data from entire e bike rides in any way useful to compare against other similar rides on the non e-bikes?

do you know where the sensor is and how it works?

 

[Karl63]

Hey Russ, how did your new BMC 01 AMP X work out? My new 4 day old BMC Roadmachine AMP Two just died after 128 miles of use. A code 74 popped up as the reason for the failure. Everything went dead and no response. Dealer got in touch with the Mahle part supplier and they think it’s the head control unit. I’ll know if that fixes the issue in few days. Real disappointment after enjoying my Bianchi X35 system. The BMC AMP was great riding bike, no pain in the geometry.

Dear mclem43, I have a Orbea Gain M30, bought September 2023, equipped with Mahle X20, now has 450 km, same error #74, the bike is completely dead, no chance to switch on, no reaction if charger is connected. What did you do to get rid of your problem? Thanks, Karl

 

[Larry T]

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience. In the US Mahle support to dealers is via a 3rd party company that takes care of many component suppliers. As you seem to be one of the few e-assist road bike owners here, I have a question for you - what do you use for a bike computer with it? Their phone app is not bad at all, but I do NOT want to be using my phone. Long story short, I bought the bike I was looking at, love it, except that I my current bike computer, which "says" it is compatible, is only kinda sorta. No cadence, no bike power, no rider power. Now I can use one of my other cadence sensors I have kicking around, or buy a new one, but the bike uses my power so not having access to the built in "power meter" (probably not totally accurate) seems a real miss. The reason for the question is to possibly get some insight into whether this is a problem with my bike computer (Sigma Sport ROX 11.1 EVO) or the X20 system. Thanks.

I'm using MAHLE's display unit. For less than $100 it (so far) works very well with my X20 equipped gravel bike. Just 1000+ kms on it so far but I'm liking it a lot. My old bikes are gathering dust. Instead of shifting down to a the "granny gear" on a triple chainset, I'm riding around with 0 assist (but the bike turned on so I get the readouts from the display unit) and only engaging assist level 1 on climbs I'd used to need that granny gear for. And if I overdo it at 69 years young, I have no fear of making it back home.

 

[Larry T]

Hi I have a scott ebike with x35 and just bought a scott ebike 10 with x20 . Just been out once on x20 bike and did 50 miles. I can confirm bikes weigh much the same but the big difference is there is the zero drag and I cycled about 70%with battery off and under and over the 15.5 mph cut off. I usually do 50 miles on x35 on 25% battery on level 1 and obviously a lot over the 15.5mph and used 40% battery same distance on x20 but with 70% with no battery although it did show a limit of 85 mile radius left. But they apparently learn how you cycle/ use battery so will see how it goes. Level 1 was also v powerful so will need to dumb it down which you can now do. First impressions is I like it...but time will tell.

"...the big difference is there is the zero drag and I cycled about 70%with battery off and under and over the 15.5 mph cut off."
You feel a lot of drag with X35 vs X20? I better not tell my wife, who has 3 X35 Bianchi bikes and loves 'em. So far all my time is on X20 though I bought a used X35 equipped bike last summer, but since the things can't be flown on airplanes left it where I bought it and won't get to play with it until later this summer. Now you've got me fearing I'm gonna hate it..or at least (unlike my X20 bike) have to ride it around all the time with the assist turned-on and at least on the lowest level?