Looking for an e-bike for commuting with a child over 30kg (66 lbs)

[Caliss]

Hello everyone,

I'm currently looking for e-bike models that would allow me to install a child seat (not a baby seat) on the rear rack. My kids are growing up, so I need a reinforced rack. My goal is to have a single bike for both my professional and personal trips, with or without children.

Here are my criteria:

• No cargo or longtail bikes: I only need to carry one child on the seat.
• Highest possible weight limit for the rear rack (40kg would be ideal)
• Mid-drive motor with torque sensor
• Derailleur and chain only (no exotic options like internal hub gears, belt drive, etc.)
• Forward-leaning riding position (not upright on the saddle)
• Frame with a top tube
• As "light" as possible: I'm not a fan of fat bikes, for example.

I'm not setting a price limit, but well...

I've spent many hours searching, and here's what comes closest:

• Nakamura E-CrossCity:
  The rear rack is rated for 60 kg.
  So, this confirms it's technically feasible.
  However, the motor is integrated into the rear wheel, and there's no top tube.
  
  
• Riverside Touring 520:
  This is my preferred geometry.
  But it's not electric.
  The rear rack is rated for 40 kg.
  
  
• ENGWE X26:
  It is rated for a maximum of 150 kg (I couldn't find a specific weight for the rear seat). However, it's far from what I'm looking for:
  • Ultra-heavy: 43kg!
  • Hub motor

On the other hand, I think it's a great idea to reduce costs by having the final assembly done by the customer.​

​

Do you have any suggestions for my use?

Thanks for your help!

 

[m@Robertson]

Wanting to stay away from cargo bikes, you are severely limiting your options, since you don't want to use the class of bike specifically designed (and commonly used) for the task you want to accomplish.

The Engwe's cargo capacity is going to be limited to how much the shocks can handle. Not a good choice.

The Riverside is using a rack design that probably overcomes the inherent limitation of using M5 frame bosses to secure a rack. Thats the real problem with a bolt-on. An Axiom rack is rated for 50 kg but you'd be risking your child's health to four M5 frame bosses. Two of which hold most of the child's weight. Not a good choice. I personally have had an M5 bolt shear on a rack mount, leaving a hole in a steel seatstay.

Considering the Nakamura's rack is really its frame, and isn't going to be subject to bolts shearing. From the standpoint of securing precious cargo, that is the best choice from your list as a result.

If I was to pick a bike that I actually wanted to ride, it would be the Riverside, and then I would put a BBSHD motor on it. Being in France, with your power limitations, that motor would instead be a BBS02.

 

[Caliss]

Hello m@Robertson,

Thanks a lot for your answer.
You are definitely right regarding the bolts. I'm not as technical as you, so you expressed my concern more accurately than I could. That's why I'm looking for an integrated rack. But I can't find a mid-drive motor ebike with such a rack (appart from longtails).

We have similar taste: the Riverside is the one I would enjoy riding the most .
According to the product page, the Riverside rack has been validated for child seats.
So I'm considering, electrifying it.

=> Do you know some ebikes with high capacity and integrated rack + mid-drive motor?

Many thanks

 

[m@Robertson]

We have similar taste: the Riverside is the one I would enjoy riding the most .
According to the product page, the Riverside rack has been validated for child seats.
So I'm considering, electrifying it.

It is not difficult to do. A BBS02 would fit quite well on that bike, and the large triangle is perfect for a battery. There are tutorials everywhere on how to do a Bafang motor like that.

=> Do you know some ebikes with high capacity and integrated rack + mid-drive motor?

I'm sure they are out there, but its not something I look out for. Myself personally I ride a Bullitt that I built up from a bare frame so I went in a different direction entirely. Thats something you might consider. I know bakfiets in the EU are not the unicorns they are here. You would find a Bullitt to be very surprisingly light and nimble, with a stiff frame that is still comfortable.

I'm dialed in pretty well into the online cargo bike community. One thing I hear quite a lot from mothers is that putting a child seat on the back of a bike has a number of challenges. Just for starters, have you considered the kickstand? Unless its a dual-leg center stand, it will not work with the child in the seat. And if the child decides to climb into the seat themselves, or out of it, a center-stand is the only way to keep the bike from crashing down. Next, you are putting 30kg (and more over time) up high and in the back, over the wheel. Trying to handle that bike with that much weight up high is essentially the worst-case scenario for balance: standing the bike at an intersection, starting from a complete stop, slow speed maneuvering... This is another disadvantage that some longtail designs partially resolve via a low deck in the back. You might see a 20" wheel in back and a 26 in front to get that deck down low. Oh and also I hear about fidgety children behind the rider where mom cannot intervene or interact without stopping the bike.

All of these things can be dealt with, but they are issues you hopefully have thought through and are prepared to live with. A frontloader puts the weight of the child low and center. There is zero balance penalty. The passenger is in front of you and if you choose to do so, you can face the child seat backwards so the two of you face each other and can interact during the ride. Even if they face forward, its a lot easier for the two of you to take a ride together rather than in your own separate little worlds.

And the frontloader is much more versatile. Just for starters, 60 kg is literally nowhere near load capacity. After a lifetime of riding traditional cycles and a few years building ebikes, I decided to build a Bullitt as a challenge, not knowing if I would even be able to ride such a contraption. It ended up being my preferred bike and remains my daily driver.

Here is something I wrote up on the subject a few years ago. It applies perfectly to a normal bike with a rack, too.

Mid Tail, Long Tail or Front Loader (which cargo bike do I choose)?

I never planned on building three different classes of cargo bike, but I did. What are their strengths and weaknesses?

talesontwowheels.com

 

[Atavar]

The best thing to do would be to abandon the child seat idea and get a tag-a-long trailer. A child that size will more enjoy having their own “bike” to ride anyway.

Amazon.com

 

[HumanPerson]

(just kidding) a small cars hood tied to the back of the ebike

 

[m@Robertson]

The best thing to do would be to abandon the child seat idea and get a tag-a-long trailer. A child that size will more enjoy having their own “bike” to ride anyway.

Its only rated for 35kg. Not much of a lifespan for the product given how fast kids grow.

Child seats are commonplace. But @Caliss wants to use a bike ordinarily not suited for passengers, and as a result is going to have to address more challenges than just the rack capacity. Or give in and do a bike with smaller wheels and a lower center of gravity.

Or do what a lot of parents have to do and realize that if they want one car for the family, its going to be a minivan, and the sports car has to go. Honestly I think thats the real issue here. Wanting to have a bike that is more like the bikes you ride prior to the child-carrying era. I don't carry my daughter (she's an adult and would object strenuously), but I also ride a cargo bike full time. When I drive my car, I have unused passenger seats and a rear trunk/boot, generally unused. Same with the bike. I have a cargo box thats empty oftentimes. I don't switch to my road bike if I'm not carrying cargo.

If you want one bike that does everything, get one that does everything properly. Don't try and stretch usability to the edge. Especially considering the stretch here is with the child, not other far less important factors. I don't want to come off harsh here, but the primary focus on efficacy and safety should be the child's ride. Everything else is secondary... and expendable.

It might be a good idea to tap the knowledge base of a dedicated cargo bike community, where the membership is filled with parents who are transporting children on a wide variety of bikes, not just longtails. With over 23,000 members - worldwide - I'd recommend the Cargo Bike Republic user group over on Facebook. I bet the responses would be 10x what you get here.

 

[danpenn]

Caliss
The tagalong trailing bike seems to me to be a good choice for your 66 pounder. I've used them with my grandchildren.

Amazon.com

 

[Caliss]

Hello everyone,

Time flies so fast, it's been over a month now. Sorry for the delay ... For a variety of (obviously bad) reasons, I put this project on hold.

@ m@Robertson regarding the kickstand. I’ve indeed noticed that my kickstand hasn’t been aging well, especially since I’ve been using my bike with a seat for grown-up kids. My current solution is to hold the bike without the kickstand while the kids climb on by themselves.
They got used it to this process quite easily!
You’re absolutely right: having a small wheel at the back would definitely make things easier!

I’ve thought a lot about getting a frontloader, which would be the perfect solution for carrying my kid. However, I really don’t want to ride such a large bike to work, and I prefer not to own more than one bike.

I read your blog post Midtail, Longtail or Frontloader: Which Cargo Bike Do I Choose? and can see why you’re so impressed by the frontloader. Plus, that green color you have is just awesome!
Thanks for the recommendation about the Cargo Bike Republic user group on Facebook!

@Atavar & @danpenn, thank you for the advice! I didn’t mention it earlier, but I actually have a FollowMe for my second child. He rides his own bike on the way to school, and I bring it back using the FollowMe setup. Since the tag-a-long is attached to the seatpost, I could keep using it this way for now.

Here’s where I’m stuck. Like @m@Robertson said, I need to "get one that does everything properly." But I’m really hesitant about riding a big bike (whether longtail or frontloader) most of the time. I love the feel of a “light” ebike.
Plus, my need to carry two grown kids will probably end in about a year or so. I want a bike that I can still enjoy when carrying kids will be occasional.
So I’m still not sure what to decide at this point...

I really appreciated all your insights! Many thanks for your help!

 

[Smaug]

I think you should get a longtail cargo bike with enough rack capacity for what you want to do.

Either that, or have the 66 lb. kid rid his/her own bike. My daughter was riding her own bike before she was that heavy. Once that option was available, she no longer wanted to be a passenger with me.

Is it not safe enough or not fast enough for him/her to ride his/her own?

What do you have in France that is similar to the Lectric XPedition?:

 

[bigoilbob]

Hello everyone,

I'm currently looking for e-bike models that would allow me to install a child seat (not a baby seat) on the rear rack. My kids are growing up, so I need a reinforced rack. My goal is to have a single bike for both my professional and personal trips, with or without children.

Here are my criteria:

• No cargo or longtail bikes: I only need to carry one child on the seat.
• Highest possible weight limit for the rear rack (40kg would be ideal)
• Mid-drive motor with torque sensor
• Derailleur and chain only (no exotic options like internal hub gears, belt drive, etc.)
• Forward-leaning riding position (not upright on the saddle)
• Frame with a top tube
• As "light" as possible: I'm not a fan of fat bikes, for example.

I'm not setting a price limit, but well...

I've spent many hours searching, and here's what comes closest:

• Nakamura E-CrossCity:
  The rear rack is rated for 60 kg.
  So, this confirms it's technically feasible.
  However, the motor is integrated into the rear wheel, and there's no top tube.
  
  
• Riverside Touring 520:
  This is my preferred geometry.
  But it's not electric.
  The rear rack is rated for 40 kg.
  
  
• ENGWE X26:
  It is rated for a maximum of 150 kg (I couldn't find a specific weight for the rear seat). However, it's far from what I'm looking for:
  • Ultra-heavy: 43kg!
  • Hub motor

On the other hand, I think it's a great idea to reduce costs by having the final assembly done by the customer.​

​

Do you have any suggestions for my use?

Thanks for your help!

Good on you for going mid drive. I haven't kept up, but I think that you are SOL, carrying that weight safely, without a mid drive cargo bike with either a derailleur or a burley IGH.