Kids and ebikes

[ETrike]

Finally! the one that stole the ebike off my truck last June surfaces. I asked God to help me find the thief and here you are. I provided you an e-bike, God forgave you and my prayer was answered. Amazing!

Wow. Praying for you, brother.

 

[ETrike]

OK, i've said it once, now i'll say it again... @ETrike This isn't a church session, leave the preaching at church and dont bring it into our forums.

You only have 1 more Warning before i go nuts....make sure you understand what I am telling you here.

Praying for you right now, my brother.
Reread my posts and you will find that I certainly never "preached" to anyone.
If the mere mention of God is bothering you so, there might just be a life changing reasoning behind same.
Keep an active ear out.

 

[Django]

Brother, you will hopefully learn one day that no true follower of Christ ever "pushes" any more than Christ did (not) while offering new life beautifully outlined in the Bible.
My signature offers a few somewhat unorthodox alternatives to understanding that offer via obviously flawed individuals who are about as genuine as I have found in my 60+ years of often criticizing how His word is delivered myself (we are all sinners).
It is pretty humbling to stumble across (now) almost 700 podcasts (Unashamed), a few old retired guys at WFR and Larry to find just about all one needs to keep them in good company.

I think that this and a few other posts could be seen as preaching. This is an important subject that does not benefit from being hijacked with right wing or any other rhetoric. If you see the devil as the divider, (your words), then you might benefit from a bit of self reflection brother.

Let’s stop wasting everyone’s time here and get back on topic.

 

[JerryB]

I wouldn't be worried about anyone else's arrogance while arrogance empowers you to challenge...I'll leave it at that.

I really hope you do......it would be a blessing for all of us.

 

[ETrike]

Let's all reread the OP's original question. He asks if kids should be trained and/or be put under some type of age restrictions which he (and others) easily recognize to be a slippery slope. This brought out (as it always does) the "wellll...if only parents would be better parents" navel-gazing unicorn hunters who rarely suggest putting in the work or (heaven forbid) private let alone public money to solve anything.
Yeah, solving safety let alone a host of other societal issues on a local level where every viewpoint is brought to the table is a (quote) "right wing" concept.
Meanwhile, kids continue to get hurt, maimed and/or killed on ebikes due to any problem involving personal let alone community responsibility is shouted down the very second that anyone dares to shift the focus to: ...and what are we going to do about it without non-existent parents or government largesse always being the driver.

Empathy in general is at an all-time low in this country as kids frankly don't even make the radar when it comes to protecting them from anything including (yes) light years more important 'left wing" woke indoctrination via our public school systems.

 

[Django]

Let's all reread the OP's original question. He asks if kids should be trained and/or be put under some type of age restrictions which he (and others) easily recognize to be a slippery slope. This brought out (as it always does) the "wellll...if only parents would be better parents" navel-gazing unicorn hunters who rarely suggest putting in the work or (heaven forbid) private let alone public money to solve anything.
Yeah, solving safety let alone a host of other societal issues on a local level where every viewpoint is brought to the table is a (quote) "right wing" concept.
Meanwhile, kids continue to get hurt, maimed and/or killed on ebikes due to any problem involving personal let alone community responsibility is shouted down the very second that anyone dares to shift the focus to: ...and what are we going to do about it without non-existent parents or government largesse always being the driver.

Empathy in general is at an all-time low in this country as kids frankly don't even make the radar when it comes to protecting them from anything including (yes) light years more important 'left wing" woke indoctrination via our public school systems.

I guess that you just can’t help your unawaken self. So what are you proposing? What is your enlightened, un-woke solution? (I know, I know, doing the WORK!!!!!). Are we to assume that you are doing the WORK? What exactly are you doing to protect these or any children?

I can’t raise someone else’s child. As a private citizen, I have no right to force my version of parenting or safety off on anyone else. The government can. The schools can. Police safety programs can. Social services can. The DMV can. But I cannot.

The sad truth is that kids get hurt and too many die. No matter what you do, that will not change, but it can be lessened. Education and regulations can help, but many choose to ignore logic and do as they choose and then sue when the predictable happens. There are many ways that freedom is not free. In this case, freedom is hurting and killing children. I love the expression “freedom ends where the next person begins”, (yes, I am unashamedly WOKE).

I don’t recognize age restriction as a slippery slope any more that I do when it is in regard to voting, driving, drinking alcohol, owning firearms, smoking, getting married…..

A vehicle that can be propelled by motor alone and used on public roads or public land is a motor vehicle whether it is propelled by fossil fuels or electricity. I feel that anyone operating a motor vehicle should be required to know the rules of the road and have reached a minimum age of maturity and physical development In order to use that motor vehicle.

Anyone that allows their kids to ride on a steep hill, doubled up on an ebike that probably weighs more than the person in “control” needs to have their head examined. They were ultimately to one that could have prevented the tragedy.

 

["A"]

Let's all reread the OP's original question. He asks if kids should be trained and/or be put under some type of age restrictions which he (and others) easily recognize to be a slippery slope. This brought out (as it always does) the "wellll...if only parents would be better parents" navel-gazing unicorn hunters who rarely suggest putting in the work or (heaven forbid) private let alone public money to solve anything.
Yeah, solving safety let alone a host of other societal issues on a local level where every viewpoint is brought to the table is a (quote) "right wing" concept.
Meanwhile, kids continue to get hurt, maimed and/or killed on ebikes due to any problem involving personal let alone community responsibility is shouted down the very second that anyone dares to shift the focus to: ...and what are we going to do about it without non-existent parents or government largesse always being the driver.

Empathy in general is at an all-time low in this country as kids frankly don't even make the radar when it comes to protecting them from anything including (yes) light years more important 'left wing" woke indoctrination via our public school systems.

Parents taking up their parenting responsibility of "educating their own kids about public safety" is not a LEFT or RIGHT agenda.

Even if majority of parents in our society are not living up to their parental responsibilities of educating their children; that still doesn't make it right to blame the teachers, schools, school boards or politics about not living up to parental responsibilities.

Nobody can "indoctrinate" your kids if you (do the WORK) yourself and taught them properly to think for themselves (and others for EMPATHY), spend the time with your kids; not the teachers, not the church, not the school board, not the politicians.

One way help people to become better parents: let them decide when they are ready and NOT force people to become parents when they are not ready; we all know what that's about.

 

[JerryB]

I think people should have to pass a test to become parents....you know like.....

* Do you have the means to financially support your child through adulthood without government assitance.

* Will you take responsibility for your child's actions?

* Are you smarter than a 5 yr. old....please provide proof.

* Do you agree that society is not responsible for raising your child?

* Do you see yourself as a role model for your child?

* Do you read? What is the last book you fully read and understood.

* Please put the following items in nutritional order for a young child's well being......beer......apples.....cigarettes.....milk.....potato chips.....bread....candy.

* Is house training a puppy the same as raising a child?

+ How many floors are in a two story building?

* How much would you spend on an ebike for a seven year old?

If prospective parents could answer some of these basic questions correctly.....I personally think the country would be better off. Bless ya all!

 

[Snoop]

Well, it looks like I sure stirred up a pot of poop with this thread, didn’t I?

Sorry folks. Didn’t mean for it to turn into a political theater. I’m just skimming some posts, and people definitely have strong opinions it seems.

My OP wasn’t intended to be about parenting, etc, but more about community safety.

I see it like driving cars. Most states have laws defining a minimum age to drive, and that is only after prospective drivers have been trained and licensed in the proper use of an automobile and road rules. This is only the case because I think we can all agree that children do not have the emotional, cognitive or physical maturity, or sense of judgement, to allow them to drive through town with the confidence of knowing they probably won’t kill a dozen pedestrians.

An ebike is obviously not a car, but it’s also not the same as a regular bike, which I grew up on as a kid.

My thought expressed in my OP about the 9 yo on the 80 lb Aventure was whether that little kid was likely to plow over others taking walks, their dogs, their baby strollers, etc.

My personal opinion, having almost 2,000 miles experience on an ebike already, is that these machines pack a punch and are worthy of a certain level of respect.

I’m all for teaching kids proper caution while nudging them out of the nest. As a woodworker, I had my son using power tools (with supervision) at a pretty young age, but was sure to show him proper technique, to use hearing protection, to know where the kill switches are, etc.

The difference is that he was using that table saw or band saw in my garage, not driving it down the street.

 

[ETrike]

My OP wasn’t intended to be about parenting, etc, but more about community safety.

Thank you. You didn't go there to begin with...and frankly I'm pretty tired of hearing about all or even most kids blessed with anywhere near the same opportunity to be 'parented' in the first place.
Again, this is the exact same scenario previously played out decades ago when ATVs were first killing/maiming kids in the Appalachians (primarily by capita). ATVs were much cheaper than the family car, became same and the rest was/still is statistical history.
With intentional inflation now absolutely devastating American families and the cost of a much safer vehicle even farther out of reach...guess what will hurt kids next when getting around just as Quickly/cheaply as possible is the obvious goal?

History will repeat itself.
The problem that we have now (imho) is too many young people believing that they do not necessarily have to live it versus knee jerk reacting to everything that is said by those who have with smart ass remarks pulled from a Google search out of necessity rather than fully lived lives.

 

[knightrider]

Snoop I don`t think most folks post threads to start arguments. Some do but most don`t. It is just our nature to voice our 2cts. worth. Sometimes the discussion gets heated. I think we are for the most part civil. Well I might not be as I ride a Surly bike. Geez a Surly old Bastard on a Surly bike. Oh well it is what it is. You`all have a wonderful Memorial Day from the RoeRiders of Louisiana.

 

[ETrike]

Still waiting for someone to declare that these kids are worth saving in the first place by exactly what means, at what...wait for it...cost to you and I or who and at what age....

(as offered earlier, it always gets quiet when 'work' (sweat) is mentioned let alone a dollar out of anyone's pocket)

 

[Django]

Still waiting for someone to declare that these kids are worth saving in the first place by exactly what means, at what...wait for it...cost to you and I or who and at what age....

(as offered earlier, it always gets quiet when 'work' (sweat) is mentioned let alone a dollar out of anyone's pocket)

People have offered solutions, (maybe they weren’t to your liking). You have yet to provide any kind of meaningful solution, so here is your golden opportunity.

Unfortunately, changing human nature is not going to happen.

 

[ETrike]

(lol)...

People have offered solutions, (maybe they weren’t to your liking). You have yet to provide any kind of meaningful solution, so here is your golden opportunity.

Unfortunately, changing human nature is not going to happen.

Name me one solution offered up here which involved someone getting off their arse personally (again, the Kryptonite of today's 'woke' generations...the concept of non-government-inspired 'work') or one which needingly volunteered to pay for any safety program *themselves* to save kids on ebikes (in general)...kids which they have zero work-inspired empathy for save for (possibly) their very own.
The problem with you younger guys is that us older folk have witnessed you all grow up trying to simply push blame/cut corners in terms of old fashioned grass roots activism save for the asinine issues which you were unknowingly brainwashed to adapt.

By the way, "Changing human nature" along with the concept of "unconscious bias" are pretty much non-negotiable concepts already.
We're all (mostly men) beyond (cough) 'rehabilitation'.

 

["A"]

Still waiting for someone to declare that these kids are worth saving in the first place by exactly what means, at what...wait for it...cost to you and I or who and at what age....

(as offered earlier, it always gets quiet when 'work' (sweat) is mentioned let alone a dollar out of anyone's pocket)

Nobody said kids are not worth saving. Stop blaming other people. Stop looking to others for solutions.

If you're so concerned, why don't you become a teacher yourself and see the reality in schools that teachers face everyday?
See how much you would "sweat" in a classroom of 25-30 kids that are just waiting for you to show how compassionate you are about them.

If you'd bothered to listen to what the teachers face in our society as I posted in the first pave of this discussion:
https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/04/06/how-to-fix-the-growing-discipline-problem-in-u-s-classrooms

On this Memorial Day Weekend, I would like to remind you of the "Younger guys" that I served along, so all of us living can have a chance to give back everyday, by teaching your own children the importance of taking up service yourself instead of blaming others.
Go volunteer at your local homeless shelter, hospital, library or schools, get an idea what reality people are dealing with everyday.

 

[Django]

(lol)...

Name me one solution offered up here which involved someone getting off their arse personally (again, the Kryptonite of today's 'woke' generations...the concept of non-government-inspired 'work') or one which needingly volunteered to pay for any safety program *themselves* to save kids on ebikes (in general)...kids which they have zero work-inspired empathy for save for (possibly) their very own.
The problem with you younger guys is that us older folk have witnessed you all grow up trying to simply push blame/cut corners in terms of old fashioned grass roots activism save for the asinine issues which you were unknowingly brainwashed to adapt.

By the way, "Changing human nature" along with the concept of "unconscious bias" are pretty much non-negotiable concepts already.
We're all (mostly men) beyond (cough) 'rehabilitation'.

“The problem with you younger guys”,
thank you for the confusion. I’m 67.

 

[HumanPerson]

Report button still works

 

[JerryB]

Nature has a way of naturally "thinning the herd"....maybe ebikes are here for a reason????

 

[ETrike]

Nobody said kids are not worth saving. Stop blaming other people. Stop looking to others for solutions.

If you're so concerned, why don't you become a teacher yourself and see the reality in schools that teachers face everyday?
See how much you would "sweat" in a classroom of 25-30 kids that are just waiting for you to show how compassionate you are about them.

If you'd bothered to listen to what the teachers face in our society as I posted in the first pave of this discussion:
https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/04/06/how-to-fix-the-growing-discipline-problem-in-u-s-classrooms

On this Memorial Day Weekend, I would like to remind you of the "Younger guys" that I served along, so all of us living can have a chance to give back everyday, by teaching your own children the importance of taking up service yourself instead of blaming others.
Go volunteer at your local homeless shelter, hospital, library or schools, get an idea what reality people are dealing with everyday.

You're making my case again, "A".
Here in America, but for the blood of others, we "all have a chance to give back" literally anytime that we would like to concerning our collective children's safety on ebikes. My "concern" (stated umpteen times now) is that actions speak louder than words and that all of these efforts are usually local. As far as what teachers face every day and anyone with a desire to tell kids the honest truth let alone your fellow veterans taking up voluntary service in the schools...c'mon man...that would last about 30 seconds and you know it.

Again, our self funded youth ATV safety classes were a huge success in our opinion.
Ebikes are no different in terms of their potential to hurt, disable and yes kill our kids.
We obviously could have done more.

 

[Django]

You're making my case again, "A".
Here in America, but for the blood of others, we "all have a chance to give back" literally anytime that we would like to concerning our collective children's safety on ebikes. My "concern" (stated umpteen times now) is that actions speak louder than words and that all of these efforts are usually local. As far as what teachers face every day and anyone with a desire to tell kids the honest truth let alone your fellow veterans taking up voluntary service in the schools...c'mon man...that would last about 30 seconds and you know it.

Again, our self funded youth ATV safety classes were a huge success in our opinion.
Ebikes are no different in terms of their potential to hurt, disable and yes kill our kids.
We obviously could have done more.

Your diy method of educating is problematic. Here are some issues that come to mind immediately:
1). You are likely to get sued if someone that you taught gets hurt or killed. 2). You may not be expert enough to teach such a course. 3). You only reach a small number of people. 4). There is no standardized structure.

Many states run motorcycle safety courses. They are reasonably priced and follow a very well thought out method and format, (at least that’s true in New Hampshire and Vermont). Most importantly, it works to promote safety and education.

To think that people with no training, backing or authority should just start teaching something that they have only a fundamental knowledge of is absurd and probably downright dangerous.

In the early years, Hang Gliding had to be self taught or taught by someone with some experience. Due to poor equipment and poor training, the fatality rate was ridiculously high. Eventually, the USHGA was formed with pilot rating systems, tests, training and standardization. More than 30 years ago, I was a USHGA Observer, (assigned by the regional director), and advanced instructor, (my side job). I also held an Advanced Pilot rating with all Special Skill sign offs. Observers could, among other things, test and award intermediate and advanced ratings as well as enforce USHGA rules and even pull a rating if at least two observers felt that a pilot’s behavior necessitated such an action, (the pilot could appeal the decision). To be a certified instructor, (basic), you had to first serve an apprenticeship as an assistant instructor under the supervision of an advanced instructor. You then had to be nominated to attend an ICP, (Instructor Certification Program). You had to demonstrate classroom, ground school and on the hill training, pass tests, attend class and prove that you were up to the task. Along with advancements in equipment and structured training came low fatality rates and growth in the sport.

The point is that training can be good or bad depending on how it is taught and what is taught. I think that the diy method that you are so enamored with is doomed to failure. Regulation and its enforcement along with proper education and training are proven methods, (conspiracy theories aside).