Intermittent loss of power support

Dawid

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Hey!

I tried to read through some topics and couldn't find anything that would answer my question, so apologies if this is duplicated. I purchased my Raleigh Array ebaike with Suntour motor. I noticed that sometimes the motor just stops providing support either completely or it is becoming jerky. The issue gets more noticable on higher gears and up the hill. Last time when I cycled it would just stop providing support at exactly 14mph and no matter how much i tried to push I couldn't exceed that speed, and it felt like the motor was working against me. I contacted Raleigh and took it to local service. They said they took a test ride and couldn't see any problem.
Raleigh themselves said to send it back (they would charge me for a new box for the bike to collect it) and they would take a look. I am considering sending it but I thought maybe someone had a similar issue and could advise something? Perhaps if I can locate it and reproduce it better I could show it to the technician in the local store or repair it myself?
It comes with a sensor on the pedals and I was thinking about taking it down and checking if it is not obstructed or misalighend but I never dealt with ebikes before so prefer to ask before I start to tinker with it. I already opened the little cover protecting what i think is a controller as all the cable connections go there, I checked the connectors and none of them was loose, cleaned, replugged them and assembled back getting no results at all.
 
You did not provide a link or a picture, or a description of the motor type, likely crank-drive as that is the fad, but they operate differently.

You also fail to mention if it is under warranty, which, if it is, DO NOT DO ANYTHING to the bike without written authorization, including a clear statement that you warranty will not be voided.

Now, the statement about "exactly 14 mph" would inidicate either a speed sensor or a controller issue, which local service should have been able to check, or did you tell them about this.

You also don't describe if the bike has a throttle as a check against the pedal sensor.

Since I know you won't come back and tell us how the problem was solved, thereby helping others in the future, I won't bother to look up your bike to find out anything to help you solve the issue.
 
Thank you for all the kind words. I was going to come back to say how it was resolved but I think it's irrelevant since you already know I wouldn't.
The link to the bike is: https://www.raleigh.co.uk/gb/en/arr...nh21RwBnWeC34FRhNY4VOXdToaZIb6rxoCxZYQAvD_BwE

I was trying to find docs for the motor but only found different models as I think this one is used only as OEM, then again it's a speculation.
It does not have a throttle but walk along works every time. The exact 14mph was showing but I couldn't accelerate any further, when the route changed downhill it rolled faster and the screen shown higher speed.
I know it's under warranty and I am trying not to fiddle too far, was just hoping on a direction, something I could also say to the technician who didn't see any issue. If I won't be able to show it to them I will send it out for repair, but i also wanted to see if I'm maybe dramatic and those motors are just not too good, but i didn't see many bad reviews.
EDIT: forgot to attach photos of the motor, what I think is the sensor and the control screen.
 

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You need to get as much precision as you can. This happens "sometimes". Does it EVER work correctly? If so, how often, 1 of 5, 2 of 3, only on rides longer than 30 minutes, always works when first turned on, ????? MORE INFORMATION.

How long have you had this bike?

Tell me HOW MANY TIMES it has shown such a failure, or a different failure.

Has it EVER exceeded 14 mph on motor, does this failure happen ALL the time, did it work correctly later, how fast does it go when it DOES work correctly? 15 is your limit there, on motor power. Does your speedo have decimal places?

Clarify, you were assisted to 14, pedaled harder, ZERO speed increase, pedaled VERY HARD, still no increase when there should have been one, meaning pedal power alone should have gone faster, motor possibly braking, then, on a downhill, speed did increase past 14, did you cease or lessen pedal effort or continue at normal rate, or faster, or REALLY fast?

If you can answer the above in detail, this may give reason for a replacement bike, if possible. Are you within 30 days of purchase, or thereabouts, check your local warranty laws.

SECOND TIME I ASK, was the technician who looked at it made aware of this 14 mph issue?? I want to know the bike shops reaction to the complete data dump on this incident. Tell them a professional diagnostic technician is looking into this issue.

Did this tech actually physically see the bike, or just on phone?

What you are looking for, is a problem you can RELIABLY RECREATE. What happens EVERY TIME, what NEVER HAPPENS, what makes it START HAPPENING, what makes it STOP HAPPENING.

Also ask the tech how the bike is SUPPOSED to respond when exceeding 15 mph limit. This all could be just a speedo calibration error, you are very close to a hardware limitation.

The part most fail on is to update AFTER the problem is solved, and they no longer need help.
 
Hey!

Thanks for that, sorry I skipped some details. I cycled to work today to check if I can find a pattern.
I will try to answer all the questions in order so that I don't miss anything.
It happens most of the time. After the today's ride I tried a few scenarios. When I am on the gear 1-4 i cannot feel the issue quite as much if at all, very hard to tell as the speeds are naturally lower. When I am on higher gears, issue is becomeing more obvious the higher the gear is, possibly more force put against the pedals. Then if I reach the 14mph i feel a push that sorts of gives up and then picks up again, so feels like the bike is gainiing a very little speed, hits some sort of limit, the assist drops, bike slows down and then it picks up again. If the motor is limited to 15mph I would imagine that could be the moment it is hitting the 15mph. I then tried to drop the gear and p[edal very quickly, managed to get it a bit faster (over 15mph), then gradually managed to build the speed up to 16 mph. To get the 17 and above mark i need to go down the hill.I believe the issue with that is consistent and just more noticable on higher gears/up the hill. What you said about 15mph could as well explain it and then indeed it is me expecting too much of the bike. Distance doesn't seem to matter, going up the hill does, but perhaps this is due to the motor limitation combined with then struggle to get more speed on a heavy bike that feels like mopre resistance.
I have this bike for some 2 weeks now. I am unsure if the issues became gradually worse or is it me paying more attention to them.
The failure with 14mph I can now reproduce quite consistently. The complete suppoort loss happened three times so far. Quite possibly if I start to pedal first and switch on support second, will try that scenario on my way back. Last time restarting the screen seemed to have fixed it.
Then today I was cycling, felt like there ws no support at lower speeds but up the hill, dropped the gear a few down and felt like it came back, again maybe motor couldn't provide enough power If so that wouldn't be a fault either.
Speedo doesn't have decimal places, I thought it wss limited to 17mph and was expecting support up until there. I think it happens all the time, I just can't feel it on the flat terrain, as just pedaling power seems to be enough to get the bike to accelerate. So before I thought it would be intermittent, now after riding it a bit more it feels more consistent.
When I started noticing the 14mph mark, I really could't get it any faster but i was goin up the hill. maybe next time I can switch off the support and then see if I can notice any change, will tinker with it too. Down the hill I pedalled more and got more speed and then since my legs can only turn so fast I wasn't able to pedal fast enough to keep up with it. I got it to about 30mph down a steep hill.
I can definitely get it replaced, but then if it is me being dramatic, then I will waste their time, be without bike until the replacement is issued and gain nothing from it. The main thing I am trying to establish is basically if this is me expecting too much or the bike is indeed faulty.
When I took it to the repair shop I didn't notice the exact 14mph yet. He was made aware of the support loss, this being more obvious on higher gears and up the hill. I spoke with the technician on the phone and he said he knew what was the problem, but then I had a call from the service stuff saying the technician found no issues after the test ride and that I can collect my bike. I wasn't able to speak with the technician after that.
I left the bike in store and they said the technician adjusted the gears (it was funny on the 7th gear, i think limiter screw or how was it called was too tight but at the time I didn't want to adjust it myself since I was taking it there for the motor issue, I thought they may as well look into that in the process). Technician then adjusted the gears, took test ride (or so I was told) and decided everything worked as it should.
I understand a lot of people ask for help and never actually update on if it really helped so it must be frustrating helping people who can't even give a feedback after. I promise I will drop an update at the end whatever this may be.

The 15mph limitation - is it something that comes as standard? As I thought e-bikes are limited to 17mph in UK, but if 15mph is the limit for those motors, that would explain a lot of issues I am noticing.
Edit: I started pedalling and then switched on the screen and support and it worked so it's not that. Then I slowed down on the highest gear and tried to accelerate and felt no support, dropped a couple of gears down and support was back. Could it be due to the force put on the pedals being too high somehow? Or does it enable support above certain speed of pedals so being on the highest gear and going below 8mph or so would mean the pedals are not spinning quickly enough which would make it being an inconvenience and not an actual fault.
 
I believe the 15 mph restriction is an EU regulation, I have seen it listed as "15.5 mph", but rarely. 15 being a less accurate, but convenient, shorthand.

Thank you for one of the 2 or 3 most complete responses I have ever had in over 20 years of doing free, online, tech support. You actually answered every question I asked, and, as a result, have likely arrived at the solution to your problem. This is very likely a result of the fact that you, personally, did not do anything exceptionally stupid that you don't want anybody else to be aware of.

Also one of VERY FEW who understands the frustration of working to solve a mystery, closing in on an answer, and almost NEVER getting an actual confirmation of the correct solution. Also being told I am wrong for telling someone that they did something exceptionally stupid, when they did, in fact, do something exceptionally stupid, that others should be made aware of, so that they themselves do NOT do something exceptionally stupid.

And so many have the absolute AUDACITY to wonder why I seem angry a lot of the time. "Frustrating" does not begin to cover it.

Now, INSIST on talking to the tech who "knew what the problem was". Bypass management, and speak directly to the person who KNOWS. Management have DIFFERENT INTERESTS than finding the solution to the problem. Management already has your money, as long as you are not preventing them from getting other peoples money, they do not care about your problem.
 
Hey!
Thanks for that, I really appreciate you looking into this. I was trying to cover a lot of info on the first post but I didn't manage to narrow down the problems yet.
So could you please confirm of I understand correctly. The motor is limited to probs 15mph for simplicity, so I would never reach actual 15mph on support, as this is when it would cut off. Then going up the hill the support would drop as soon as it would reach that speed and on a high gear I wouldn't be able to accelerate further thus no fault, just the way the motor works.
A side note here, I was using a Dutch gazelle with bosch motor for a few weeks as a trial on my partner's cycle to work scheme. I have been told the bosch motor is much better than other brands in a Dutch bike shop as this is where I thought I would get the best advice. Who knows more about cycling than Dutch!
I adjusted my expectations accordingly, but i thought it wasn't right. Now i think that perhaps Bosch is reducing the support proportionally going towards the max speed while suntour is cutting it at the point making it more jerky in response. That then would be no fault at all, just how the motor works.
Then if the controller kicks in from certain speed of the pedals, perhaps to avoid a sudden acceleration if it can't do it gradually like said Bosch, then it wouldn't work if I'm on a high gear and pedalling too slowly, drop to lower gear, pedal faster, support kicks in.
Is the above sounds about right, then the fault would be only with it not giving support at all until I restart it, but that happened maybe like twice so will see if I can cause it somehow to show to the technician, otherwise every time he'll test it, likely he'll see no fault.
If my thinking is right I will assume that most of the issues is me expecting too much and will see if the complete loss of support is something that is happening frequently and then if I can reproduce it, then I will contact the local store and see if they can help, then feedback here. Otherwise, it is possible, that like any other electronic devices, it has it's moments and I will enjoy cycling more and complain less.
 
Its not for simplicity, it is EU law. Not sure of UK current situation in that area, but SFAIK it is a hardware speed limit.

Uphill, downhill, they cut off at 15 mph. Calibration could be a bit off, could be 15.5. Pedal sensor should have several levels of assist, each keyed to speed of rotation of cranks, but also cut off at 15mph.

How various brands react to cutting or restoring power as you dip below 15, or go above, in relation to pedal input, is going to vary a fair amount.

Likely to be a bit sudden or jerky.

Check all this with your local tech. The one who knows things. Not the clerks at the front desk.

One little tidbit, if for some reason the controller THINKS you have a smaller wheel, it will allow the wheel to rotate faster, to reach the desired speed. This might be OK, it might have some negative consequences. SFAIK, there is no speed limit on how fast you can PEDAL the bike, with no motor assist.

Bosch is hi-quality, but pricey, and often force you to use their EXPENSIVE replacement parts, such as batteries and controllers, which must be deliberately sabotaged to perform only with company replacments.
 
I see. Okay, thanks for that, I will try to speak with the tech here and hopefully he'll give me some answers.
Thank you once again for your help, I am now certainly smarter
 
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