I can see restrictions coming.

N

neutron

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I live on a rail to trail bike trail. Every day I see more and more abuse of the trail by ebikes ridden by kids who just don't care about anyone else on the trail. The speed limit is15 mph and they fly by going full out and not pedaling at all. Straight throttle full blast. No warning when passing. Our trail is very heavily used by bikes, walkers, runners, dog walkers, etc you name it. Right now we can have class 2 bikes on the trail, no class 3 as far as I know. The road bikes fly along the trail too but they are quiet and not as obnoxious as the fat tire ebikes roaring along. I'm sure the county is going to get fed up with people complaining about ebikes and put more restrictions on them. This won't stop the kids though. I'm not sure what the solution is other than law enforcement actually patrolling regularly and fining the speeders. Good luck with that. I'm an old man, so Get Off My lawn!!
 
neutron said:
I'm not sure what the solution is other than law enforcement actually patrolling regularly and fining the speeders. Good luck with that.
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but... enforcement of the existing laws is the only solution. Won't stop legislators from making new ones though (that require the same enforcement mechanism; which will be too expensive to implement).
 
We don't want any more restrictions, everyone weighs differently and there are steep hills in some places. For heavy riders, plus some hills, the 750W is too weak, so the current class 1/2/3 classification is pretty stupid . Why can there be many types of cars, just limit the speed and regulate the driving. More and more idiots on the road at very high speeds are just going to get themselves killed, which only makes the regulations stricter
 
I live near a riverbed bike trail that is traffic by what the original post said. We have multiple types of people on the trail. Some of them are clueless that they're even on a bike path and I mean bike path! Not a dog path, not a walking path, not a homeless person wondering path, not a trash dump!, not a walking group path as they walk Three wide on the trail blocking traffic with no regard to anybody or anything else.
So yeah rules aren't going to help the kids that will eventually crash and Bash their heads in or get tickets and be restricted from ever riding an e-bike again. The World Turns but I see more idiots walking along the bike path then I do fast e bike riders and I live in a very populated Southern California area. Just my two cents
 
neutron said:
I live on a rail to trail bike trail. Every day I see more and more abuse of the trail by ebikes ridden by kids who just don't care about anyone else on the trail. The speed limit is15 mph and they fly by going full out and not pedaling at all. Straight throttle full blast. No warning when passing. Our trail is very heavily used by bikes, walkers, runners, dog walkers, etc you name it. Right now we can have class 2 bikes on the trail, no class 3 as far as I know. The road bikes fly along the trail too but they are quiet and not as obnoxious as the fat tire ebikes roaring along. I'm sure the county is going to get fed up with people complaining about ebikes and put more restrictions on them. This won't stop the kids though. I'm not sure what the solution is other than law enforcement actually patrolling regularly and fining the speeders. Good luck with that. I'm an old man, so Get Off My lawn!!
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To me, the issue is about speeding, not about whether they're pedaling or what type of bike they're on. This is challenging, as not all eBikes have speedos, so they could be speeding 20 mph on a Class 1 or 2 eBike and not know it. Class 3 eBikes must have a speedometer, by law.

While we're on the subject, walkers should have obligations too:
  • stay to the right,
  • control the dogs & kids,
  • not be deaf. (ear buds, phone zombie)
What's the point of us announcing our passing if they're deaf to our warnings?

SO many times, I pass a dog walker, where the dog is either off the leash or on a longer leash, engrossed in some odor he's found and I surprise him and he gets in front of me. ...or a phone zombie, smack in the middle of the trail, feeling entitled to be there.

Lack of enforcement is the issue. You should call the police and request them do some enforcement here and there. A motorcycle cop would be just the thing.
 
Smaug said:
While we're on the subject, walkers should have obligations too:
  • stay to the right,
  • control the dogs & kids,
  • not be deaf. (ear buds, phone zombie)
What's the point of us announcing our passing if they're deaf to our warnings?

SO many times, I pass a dog walker, where the dog is either off the leash or on a longer leash, engrossed in some odor he's found and I surprise him and he gets in front of me. ...or a phone zombie, smack in the middle of the trail, feeling entitled to be there.

Lack of enforcement is the issue. You should call the police and request them do some enforcement here and there. A motorcycle cop would be just the thing.
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Same really.....
 
You know I worry about having my phone playing music down low mounted on the handlebar because I can hardly hear some of these new cars coming. When I say I have the music down low I mean it's low low as in the mic on the camera doesn't even pick it up. These people who cut the world around them out by blasting noise have no sense. It's also plain dangerous when one has no situational awareness!
 
Smaug said:
To me, the issue is about speeding, not about whether they're pedaling or what type of bike they're on. This is challenging, as not all eBikes have speedos, so they could be speeding 20 mph on a Class 1 or 2 eBike and not know it. Class 3 eBikes must have a speedometer, by law.

While we're on the subject, walkers should have obligations too:
  • stay to the right,
  • control the dogs & kids,
  • not be deaf. (ear buds, phone zombie)
What's the point of us announcing our passing if they're deaf to our warnings?

SO many times, I pass a dog walker, where the dog is either off the leash or on a longer leash, engrossed in some odor he's found and I surprise him and he gets in front of me. ...or a phone zombie, smack in the middle of the trail, feeling entitled to be there.

Lack of enforcement is the issue. You should call the police and request them do some enforcement here and there. A motorcycle cop would be just the thing.
Click to expand...
Not going to happen in California
 
MikeDuf said:
Not going to happen in California
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Smaug said:
From what I’ve read, CA is one of the more aggressive states as far as enforcement goes.
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Well I should rephrase, we have so many homeless that are living in encampments on the riverbed the police are at odds just trying to get permission to go into the flood control system which is governed by a different group not the city. It's very complicated here in SoCal. We are in a car Centric World here, meaning you're taking your life in your hands if you ride on the street unless you're in a very large group. I'm not exaggerating that's just how it is so I usually ride on the riverbeds where there are no Cars. Since I'm retired the time of day dictates what kind of activity is on the riverbeds. We can typically have a mixture of everything. During the week it's more governed by retired Walkers and homeless people. I say homeless but they're usually drug-induced so you have to keep your wits about you when you pass them. I carry gel pepper spray with me.
But really for the most part the occasional speeder that whizzes past me are so Random it's not even worth mentioning. And yes they usually are younger kids. The police usually tag them once they're on public streets.
We also have a lot of e-bike clubs here that buzz around on the riverbeds and surface streets, and those fat tire bikes are very heavy and usually throttle control Class 2 and some of them I know have very high speed, but they are carrying some serious batteries. I'm not fond of bikes that are heavier than 50lbs. But those fat tire bikes are definitely Iron Maiden machines and you would not want to get hit by one of those!
 
I agree legislation and regulation is coming. Lucky for us, governments typically move slow. You should probably take advantage of the current state of affairs and enjoy your freedom while you still can because its only a matter of time with bikes getting less expensive and more powerful. Moving violations on ebikes won't be a misdemeanor in most states for at least a decade.
 
Yeah that's what I'm worried about because certain groups will definitely ruin it for the masses. Kind of like no dogs allowed on the park, because the last guy didn't pick up the crap! So now everyone suffers. I personally hope the driving test for seniors becomes a little more stringent. We've got too many over medicated seniors and people driving on the roads in cars! Just my two cents
 
I will give you a little hope. The largest park in the city of Boise allows off leash dogs in the park for several months each year. All 150 acres, usually dozens of dogs and nobody died.
 
This is an old, old story. People have been complaining about how 'you kids are going to spoil it for the rest of us' and 'The Man is going to bring down the hammer its only a matter of time' since the beginning of ebikes. The voiced concerns are all the same and the results are all the same:

The sky is not falling.

And there's no sign it will. The use of ebikes as auto replacement / basic transportation is a legislative policy goal near and dear to many politicians' hearts. Especially here in CA. Clamping down on the utility of ebikes directly conflicts with that goal and as such, is never going to happen beyond the localized city council meeting... and even those are dying off. We had a flurry of rules and enforcement here a few years ago, including cops on the bike/tourist path. They disappeared, and so did the outrage and agenda items at the local government meetings. Likely that is because, at this point, ebikes now outnumber bikes by a considerable margin in this somewhat bike-friendly community.

With ubiquity comes acceptance from the public (once they ride, or everyone they know rides an ebike) and reluctance to piss off registered voters on the part of politicians, who don't get re-elected by saying no to everyone. That ubiquity is something the naysayers are not factoring in. When everyone does it, you piss off everyone when you say no. And you have to enforce against everyone too. Which means resources go to it and those don't exist.

It would be nice if pedestrian controls were put into place, and walkers held up their end, but thats not going to happen, ever. People consider themselves entitled to wander and wear their earbuds. During the tourist season, which thankfully seems to have finally ended, my dashcam picks up a half dozen near-incidents per day and I'm only going about 5-7 mph when passing thru people. I can't count the number of times people look up from their phones, you see their eyes pop wide open and they apologize, and you can tell the parents who are doing their jobs at a distance with enough practice. If I wasn't such a nice guy I'd have an air horn on the handlebars and greatly enjoy the ensuing mayhem.

We did seem to have an infestation of Sur Rons and Talarias that popped up out of nowhere, consisted entirely of kids ... and seemed to disappear overnight. I am guessing the schools did something about the ones parked in the bike racks.

What IS happening is safety awareness; specifically battery regulations. Those are moving fast and manufacturers are building UL certification into their products a whole lot faster than I think anyone expected. Even the DIY sellers are getting in on it. Along the same lines, Bafang has announced that they are terminating production of the immensely popular BBSHD and BBS02 line with their UART controller protocol, in favor of the CAN version that is already on the market. New displays and new profit opportunities for them, and word is they are doing it to better fit in with battery safety regulations.
 
@MikeDuf, the higher enforcement I've seen reference to was on oceanfront beach boardwalks like Venice Beach, where there are cops on foot and I think on ATVs too. There are a LOT of pedestrians there, so I can see why it is a higher priority there to keep the rebellious types in order.
 
Smaug said:
@MikeDuf, the higher enforcement I've seen reference to was on oceanfront beach boardwalks like Venice Beach, where there are cops on foot and I think on ATVs too. There are a LOT of pedestrians there, so I can see why it is a higher priority there to keep the rebellious types in order.
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Yes absolutely. We have rules along the beach areas with limited speed. I mean they're little babies walking around and you see these Jugheads on pedal bikes that are just flying. Disregard to any safety. Kind of like in the Tour de France or did you read Italia, there's always that one tourist that has to take a selfie and snag a rider and bring the Peloton down or the wandering dog. But I think they do it on purpose to even the odds for their teams, but I'll never know. The UK folks have a terrible 15 mph Max I would not have any bike unless I was disabled of some type and needed to get around. They also have a lot of speeding cameras which to me is total control but it is what it is over there I'm glad it's not here. Well not yet, they tried it here at Orange County but some high-priced attorneys boxed it instead of his unconstitutional.
 
Mid State trail back in the '90s. There was a law that prohibited anyone but walkers/hikers from being on the trail but it was abused. Bikes, and horses being the two biggest violators. I never came across one, or hikers for that matter , but I saw plenty of evidence on the trail itself. Mud don't lie.
Just enforce what's in place and go from there.
Freedom is from a perspective. Walkers need a place to go and feel safe, riders need a place to go and feel safe also. Being a type of user (deaf,dog, or teen on a speeding bike all need a place). Perspective. Multi use can invite problems. (Shrug).
It's been happening a long time. Population seems to only compounds it.
 
My mom used to say......"Common sense is like deodorant.....those who need it the most never use it!" I think it applies to many folks who share trails.
 
I enjoy my e-bike riding on trails, and am very respectful of others out there on the trail, particularly walkers. Bikers get a lot of disdain because of a few bad apples, so to speak. One day I was walking my dog on a sidewalk next to a wooded area and a biker flew past me without warning at about 30 miles an hour and you could feel the wind hit me instantly. He couldn't have been more than an inch or two from striking me, and possibly hitting my dog and killing it. I felt like catching up to him and destroying his bike somehow. People like this are completely ignorant in my opinion, and cause problems for the vast majority of respectful Riders. While on a trail, I always tap my bell to alert Walkers that I am approaching and as I pass I always verbalize a thank you to them. Usually I get very good responses from people I pass, as all they really want is to have what is rightfully theirs and that is a safe place to walk. I tried to give them that, but there are literally jackasses out there who are selfish and don't care. What I don't want to see is an e-bike ban from trails, or more limitations on power output of e-bikes because of the disrespect from the few bad apples.
 
I agree as well that many riders are making e bikes look bad.
I built a e bike from frame up. Class 2 .
I have a 750/1000 watt motor with a 52volt 13amp battery.
When building I choose this because I feel no bicycle should go over 30mph. In my humble opinion if you want to go over 30 mph get a motorcycle.
I am from California and I see many e bikes flying way past that.
The issue is unlike a motorcycle they are quite. People can't hear them approaching.
I kept my bike at 750/1000 to stay California class 2 legal.
But to many e bikes are making us all look bad.and yes I for see more laws coming our way.
In my opinion only class 1 or 2 belong on trails .and when riding, act like your riding on the sidewalk.
Just my 2 cents.
 
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