GRIN Technology new red braking hub

[Crowngeezer81]

GRIN Technology in Vancouver, Canada should soon (3 to 6 months) have a hub motor with REGEN BRAKING. It's based on a very clever yet simple Israeli patent. The beauty of this system, called FREEGEN, is that you can freewheel until you brake, at which point, like automobiles, the braking begins with regen resistance then fades into actual disc braking.
I have no idea how much regenerative charging is done ON AVERAGE with this system but it sounds very promising/
** My suspicion is that WITH THE ADVENT OF SOLID STATE BATTERIES for e-bikes we will see this regen % rise as these batteries are said to charge much faster than traditional Li-ion batteries - a boy can only hope.
TECH MARCHES ON!

 

[HumanPerson]

Welcome to the forums!

 

[addertooth]

I work in the engineering industry. There is always a large delay between the initial early prototype design of new cells, and developing a repeatable production method to commercialize them on any scale.

They are only slightly beyond "lab curiosities" at this point. When I finally see a million have been produced (and seen real-world use in mass), I will be quick to jump on that bandwagon.

 

[Crowngeezer81]

"tooth", I talked to a GRIN worker yesterday ant he said GRIN is still in the "ALPHA" stage of design testing.He said so far everything is looking good on the test bike but the hangup may be, as you mention, in "production at scale" at a reasonable price.
So, yeah, the proof is in hundreds or thousands of happy customers. Early adopters sometimes have buyers remorse.

HumanPerson, "Namaste"
I study Thich Nhat Hanh's writngs
Yers, Eric B.

 

[m@Robertson]

Grin announced this Freegen tech some time ago in a really detailed video on their channel.

The reason it matters at all is because Freegen uses a GEARED hub motor. Ordinarily regen requires a direct drive hub. Among other things, this regen is nowhere near as violent to the frame as DD regen is. And you can dial it up to be quite strong. Its going to be a nice spiff for hub motor technology. I'll give it a year tops before Chinese motor manufacturers do a knock-off of the tech. Its quite ingenious, but also relatively simple to implement if the company trying to do so is big and has the resources to put into doing it (i.e. Bafang etc.).

I work in the engineering industry. There is always a large delay between the initial early prototype design of new cells, and developing a repeatable production method to commercialize them on any scale.

EXACTLY correct. The weekly battery game-changer story is just a journalist doing their job of churning out content. All kinds of innovations look great in a lab but never, ever make it to scaled, profitable production.

For a recent-history example, Just look at how many years it took 21700's to become generally available in the ebike channel after their introduction. Even if solid state batteries go into scaled production tomorrow, it will be years before car manufacturers get their fill for there to be enough to let ebike battery builders have some.

 

[Crowngeezer81]

Since I learned about the several different approaches to "solid state" batteries I've wondered if perhaps one or two of those solutions, when brought to production, may be better for the smaller e-bike battery. I.e. some tech doesn't scale up in size as well as other types.
Additionally, some solid state battery researcher may know how to apply AI into their search for better electrolytes, better separator films and better ways to array the sub components. When I say "better" I mean not only technically better but lower in price better.
-> AI is revolutionizing research in all fields, medicine, materials researching batteries, metallurgy, design, etc. Those who can utilize AI best will see extremely rapid results. Medicine is already reaping these results. "We ain't seen nuttin' yet."

 

[m@Robertson]

Yup. No two ways about that.

 

[slomobile]

I'm trying to design a new type of mobility device that would benefit from the slow torque and gentle modulation available with Freegen. Because I need it, not because I'm trying to sell it. Its basically an electric rollator that I can hop on and ride when my back and legs give out. I need 2 side mounted fat motors that can sense the torque applied to them through the road. Then modulate freegen brake and current to reduce the magnitude of that torque but not counter it. A torque envelope follower.

If that isn't clear, this frame runner is the overall idea with the addition of hub motors. It must sense movement induced by my steps, interpret them as velocity commands, and apply wheel torque to match my step's speed and direction, but with greater force.

I'm not an industry insider, engineer, or even a biker. But I have had some engineering training and experience, built bikes from components, built and programmed several robots and wheelchairs. All for fun and need. Not professionally. I'd like to somehow be a fly on the wall during Grin's Freegen development. For the purpose of monitoring potential compatibility with my application, and if compatible, to gently lobby for features that support my application and against those that would cause incompatibility.

I don't know if that is feasible to any degree, perhaps through an intermediary, or whether it would be worthwhile to try.

There is the option to bypass Grin and go directly to Freegen to license their tech for my own parallel development. Justin is so good at explaining how things work, that I would love to work with him. Grin's experience is what Freegen and myself are missing.

Its weird to ask here rather than go directly to Grin or Freegen. Grin has had a firm stance against collaborations in the past and they were too busy to even except pay for a consultation in the past. So I'm asking if anyone here is, or has contacts with someone that can build a motor and controller to suit my use case?

And I'm asking your opinions whether I need a license from Freegen to build such a motor for myself. I think I'm fine if I just make them for my own personal use. I want my work in the public domain. Unlicensable. I don't know if that would be tenable, or if it might prevent companies from working with me. I assume there are people here that have been in a similar situation. How would you navigate it?