Ebike Tariffs

[popstar]

Just got notice from E-Cells ebikes that prices are going up 15% for new orders due to June 14th re-instated 25% tariffs.

Key tariff exclusions, including on e-bikes, will expire June 14

WASHINGTON (BRAIN) — Importers of Chinese-made e-bikes, juvenile bikes and some other bike products will be responsible for an additional 25% tariff on those products starting June 14.The U.S. Trade Representative's office on Friday announced that exclusions from the Section 301 tariffs imposed...

www.bicycleretailer.com

The ebike wars between small US based importers was just reaching a point where consumers were winning from competition between vendors.

 

[addertooth]

I had to research this, and yes it is true.
The grey area will be whether the tariff will be applied to bikes which are ORDERED prior to the 14 June deadline, or to eBikes arriving at US ports after the 14 June deadline. If it is the latter, then it is already pretty much in place due to shipping times from China.

The change in tariffs would mean a $2000 eBike will become a $2500 eBike. Expect a cascade increase in eBike prices within the next two weeks. For those sitting on the fence, try to find stock already shipped to the USA and close the deal quickly.

The Sun may be setting on getting inexpensive feature-rich eBikes produced in China. This will be potentially affected by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) which has defined as eBikes as "consumer products" as versus "transportation". If the CPSC is able to keep this definition in place, then it may get some breathing room for those seeking to buy an eBike at a value price (but don't hold your breath on this). The CPSC defined category is only supposed to apply to eBikes of 750 Watts or less.

 

[JerryB]

It ain't just ebikes going up........

FACT SHEET: President Biden Takes Action to Protect American Workers and Businesses from China’s Unfair Trade Practices | The White House

President Biden’s economic plan is supporting investments and creating good jobs in key sectors that are vital for America’s economic future and national security. China’s unfair trade practices concerning technology transfer, intellectual property, and innovation are threatening American...

www.whitehouse.gov

And it could get worse......

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/18/politics/donald-trump-tariffs-trade-war/index.html#:~:text=Trump%20has%20repeatedly%20floated%20the,if%20he%20regains%20the%20presidency.

Either way....we're all screwed.

 

[Smaug]

Yep, I work in the cordless power tools industry. We're all looking for cell options other than those made in China, since the origin of the cell determines the origin of the battery pack. Chinese-made cells are the last resort, since the tariff on non electric vehicle battery packs from China will at least double.

The idea that the president(s) are putting forward is that it will encourage US manufacturing. However, what it is really doing is to have us look anywhere else in Asia besides China: Taiwan (for now), Thailand, Vietnam, etc. They would have to tax cells from anyplace other than the USA for it to work.

It's more of how we are waging war with China at the moment. They are spying and engaging in cyber warfare, we are taxing the hell out of imports from there. (maybe also spying and doing our own cyber warfare?)

We have some European and British members, whom I assume will be unaffected, though they already have that pretty tangy "Value Added Tax" or VAT...

 

[addertooth]

Yes, the VAT is how many EU eBike companies have survived. I always cringe when I see the prices from those locations. For the same feature set as a Chinese eBike, the European Manufactured eBikes are frequently twice as expensive.

 

[JerryB]

SING......

I shot the tariff.​

But I did not shoot the subsidy.

 

[pagheca]

We have some European and British members, whom I assume will be unaffected, though they already have that pretty tangy "Value Added Tax" or VAT...

I am that lucky "European" guy that lives in a place exempted from VAT because out of the European Common Market. So, can't really say...

Jokes a part, consider that a lot of services in EU are free or almost free, and paid with our taxes and tariffs: instruction (including universities in some countries), health, etc. To be honest I am happy to pay my pretty high taxes and tariffs. I think is a good way to distribute wealth and guaranteee basic rights in this country where I am very happy to live in after moving so much all over the world to follow my career. And the cost of life is very cheap here though.

 

[pagheca]

Yes, the VAT is how many EU eBike companies have survived. I always cringe when I see the prices from those locations. For the same feature set as a Chinese eBike, the European Manufactured eBikes are frequently twice as expensive.

can you explain this to me? I do not understand how VAT can allow the companies to survive as it goes to the government and increase the price.

 

[addertooth]

can you explain this to me? I do not understand how VAT can allow the companies to survive as it goes to the government and increase the price.

It is quite simple. If people can't buy less expensive bikes, and they want a bike, then they will choose from what they can get. The Value Added Tax (VAT) adds a mark-up on Chinese goods, so European manufacturers can compete with high prices.

 

[addertooth]

I am that lucky "European" guy that lives in a place exempted from VAT because out of the European Common Market. So, can't really say...

Jokes a part, consider that a lot of services in EU are free or almost free, and paid with our taxes and tariffs: instruction (including universities in some countries), health, etc. To be honest I am happy to pay my pretty high taxes and tariffs. I think is a good way to distribute wealth and guaranteee basic rights in this country where I am very happy to live in after moving so much all over the world to follow my career. And the cost of life is very cheap here though.

Yes, in America it is frequently every man for himself. If he is motivated and learns valuable skills he is financially rewarded. He can afford things like medical care and college. Often those same men look at others who are not as driven and think "they are where they are, because they did not work as hard to learn something valuable".

It is a significant cultural difference.

 

[addertooth]

It is, a very, significant difference from all other nations and Im glad to read that here. This country has so many problems about it. I think it goes beyond culture and also harder to live by today as I know how hard I've worked and still can't pay a car off and be wealthy before it breaks down.

So who's going to be the Chevy or Ford of ebikes and not get bought out, is there a GM in USA or Europe? What about America though. It's a metal frame with a what proud motor and some small parts.

Yes, I loathe car payments, and the accompanying higher insurance cost. I think the last new car I bought was back in 1990. It was driven 276 thousand miles before it finally earned its final rest. It lasted a decade after the final payment. The last car was purchased in 2012, it was used. It set me back about 2500 dollars. I just keep replacing the worn out parts and keep it rolling.

 

[addertooth]

I wish you luck with your eBike delivery work. I must admit to being curious how to work around the range and speed limitations of an eBike. I saw a YouTube video of someone doing it from an eBike, it appeared to be a serious uphill battle.

 

[pagheca]

It is quite simple. If people can't buy less expensive bikes, and they want a bike, then they will choose from what they can get. The Value Added Tax (VAT) adds a mark-up on Chinese goods, so European manufacturers can compete with high prices.

OK, but that's not correct: VAT is applied, to ALL products, whether they are imported or produced inside the EU.

Just to clarify, what you are referring to is the custom import duty:

When you buy a product from a non-EU country, VAT is payable on your purchase irrespective of the value of the goods. In addition to VAT, you may also have to pay customs duties for goods above €150 and excise duty for specific goods.

from https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/buying-goods-online-coming-non-european-union-country_en#:~:text=When you buy a product,excise duty for specific goods.

The VAT is applied to ANY transaction, and is calculated on the "added value" by any vendor. So, VAT may have been paid for a number of times for any given final product (materials, components, integration, work, etc.).

BTW, there are some EU area, considered economically poor, where VAT is much lower, including the archipelago where I live - fortunately. So I paid my Trek (or my car, etc.) about a 15% less than in Europe.

 

[pagheca]

Yes, in America it is frequently every man for himself. If he is motivated and learns valuable skills he is financially rewarded. He can afford things like medical care and college. Often those same men look at others who are not as driven and think "they are where they are, because they did not work as hard to learn something valuable".

It is a significant cultural difference.

Thanks. As I wrote I lived in the US and I appreciated the BIG cultural differences. The problem I see is that the descentant pay the bill for the lack of motivation, or unluck (disability, death, diseases) of their parents, reproducing the issue. And this increase the differences and reduce social permeability (that in fact are much higer in the US respect to any other developed country).

I do not want to get too political here (better not, guys!) and respect other points of view (so, please respect mine... ), but personally I prefer the old "scandinavian way", where you pay a lot of taxes increasing sharply with income, and you get a big support back. In this way you stop rich people from becoming too rich and control the country, and you compensate unlucky children born in the "wrong" family, that I believe it is the right way to go.

Here in Spain, where I live since 2019 after moving from one continent to the other for several decades, I already pay max tax rate, and I am happy with that as I am not greedy. I have a single Trek Powerfly 7 and do not need anything more than that. I am happy with my life, my career, my job and my family.

 

[addertooth]

I thought VAT was waived if another member of the EU produced it.

 

[Smaug]

[...]
Made in USA? Or Europe, that don't skimp on the battery size?
[...]
Who looks like the next Chevy and Ford?

The 20 Best Electric Bikes Made In The USA - Go Green Post

Electric bikes are quickly becoming more popular than ever before. Electric bikes have a number of benefits including exercise, cost savings, environment, and promoting the US economy. We researched and contacted 60 e-bike companies and discovered there are several different electric bikes that...

thegogreenpost.com

 

[addertooth]

Thanks. As I wrote I lived in the US and I appreciated the BIG cultural differences. The problem I see is that the descentant pay the bill for the lack of motivation, or unluck (disability, death, diseases) of their parents, reproducing the issue. And this increase the differences and reduce social permeability (that in fact are much higer in the US respect to any other developed country).

I do not want to get too political here (better not, guys!) and respect other points of view (so, please respect mine... ), but personally I prefer the old "scandinavian way", where you pay a lot of taxes increasing sharply with income, and you get a big support back. In this way you stop rich people from becoming too rich and control the country, and you compensate unlucky children born in the "wrong" family, that I believe it is the right way to go.

Here in Spain, where I live since 2019 after moving from one continent to the other for several decades, I already pay max tax rate, and I am happy with that as I am not greedy. I have a single Trek Powerfly 7 and do not need anything more than that. I am happy with my life, my career, my job and my family.

Yes, upbringing matters. If your parents valued learning, you are likely to hold similar values. If your parents valued thrift and investment, you are likely to share those values as well.

The public school system does a poor job of explaining life outcomes to young students. Many see school/learning as something which must be endured rather than as a springboard to the wonderful life they imagine awaits ahead.

 

[pagheca]

I thought VAT was waived if another member of the EU produced it.

Customers pay VAT at any step, from rough material to final product through all the assembly process of almost everything. For ebike the VAT range from 17% to 27% in different EU countries (with the exception of some regional areas like the Canary Islands).

Really not helping to expand the market of REALLY sustainable means of transport...

 

[HumanPerson]

shoes

 

[JerryB]

Nothing is built in America these days. I just bought a TV and it said “Built In Antenna”​

I don’t even know where that is!