E-bicycles with regenerative braking

The 'Cooper' name is being fooled with. BMW now owns MiniCooper, and the current Mins have BMW engines, drivetrains, and platforms.
Heaven only knows what 'Cooper' may mean now, except it's a known name for unknowing consumers.
A regenerative bike sounds like a great idea conceptually (it works well in hybrid cars, where a LOT more energy is available), but likely won't be much help on bicycles in its current form.
Dan
 
Train Dan said:
...A regenerative bike sounds like a great idea conceptually (it works well in hybrid cars, where a LOT more energy is available), but likely won't be much help on bicycles in its current form.
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This isn't the place for reality Dan, this is where someone posts vids of things they don't understand... but you are absolutely correct. Ride safe.
 
Regen braking in bikes is quite inexpensive, available on most DD hub controllers, some can be controlled with the throttle for fine tuning..

The amount of power recovered is minimal, but can extend range, for free. Up to 3-5%, in hilly areas.

Best bonus is very effective braking, with good control, and no wear on any brake pads. You get paid, to recover free power, and be safer.

Hub motor mounting points must be secured so as to resist torque in both directions. I see this as the only real downside.

Oh, and you can't do it on a crank drive.
 
BBassett said:
It's all a gimmick to separate fools from their money. The amount of capture varies drastically depending on the weight of the moving mass, terrain, and most importantly rider dedication to squeeze out the max capture rate. 99.9% of ebike riders wouldn't benefit from regen at all, and of that 99.9% of riders, only 1% would be willing to pay for the ability. The money is much better spent on owning high-quality, high-capacity batteries in the 1st place... but those don't come on production ebikes. Why? Because the manufacturers want you to burn through the packs and buy more. The bikes are sold with packs so small they require full charge and full depletion to get anywhere close to the advertised range. Even the chargers they provide are designed to get the minimum number of recharge cycles out of the batteries. Owning a battery big enough that you can ride further than you want in a day on only 65% of the pack's capacity will triple the life of the battery. Extending the number of recharge cycles from approx. 400 to over 1200. But ya need a great charger to manage the battery like that... the Grin Satiator is another expense people don't want to pay. Another benefit of a big battery is that you can charge at higher amperage with faster charge times without stressing the individual cells. The amount of power you can capture from regen hubs is negligible in comparison and completely unnecessary with a good battery. You ever seen those hand crank flashlights? It's very much the same as those. I'm actually one of those 0.01%'ers that would benefit from a regen hub. I pull a single-wheel suspension trailer for extended rides that I could install a hub motor only for its capture ability. On descents using the motor for regen would slow the bike and in the process decrease brake pad wear... that's almost more important than the minuscule amount of recaptured voltage. The point is that it's not even worthwhile for me and how I ride at this point to pull around the extra weight of the motor... let alone the additional cost.

The question you have to ask yourself is why would anyone choose a hub drive in the 1st place... even if it is sold on its capture ability? Why? Because they are cheaper and a little easier to mount on a bike. Are you sensing a theme here?

Someday they will have regen for ebikes that actually work until then people will try to sell these.
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Hmm. I agree with everything you say except the “fools and their money” part. My experience with direct drive hub motors and regeneration is not that one gets a bunch of regen—I don’t think one does—but rather, that it’s a wonderful brake. On my bafang mid drive, I burned through disc rotors. On my DD hub, I’ve not yet replaced a rotor. I love that. Now, I only commute.
 
A said:
Mini Cooper maker launches four new electric bicycles with regenerative braking

Motor & battery in rear hub..

electrek.co

Mini Cooper maker launches four new electric bicycles with regenerative braking

Cooper Bikes, the company behind the Mini Cooper car, has just unveiled four new electric bicycle models that comprise the...
electrek.co electrek.co

Screen-Shot-2022-04-26-at-10.05.14.jpg
Click to expand...
Truly it's nice.
 
WarmWorld said:
Hmm. I agree with everything you say except...
Click to expand...
So you're saying that you would rather have better braking than the best-designed motor? Ok, I've never changed either rotor... yet, but I have gone through a load of brake pads. I'm not sure that picking any component for one of its secondary benefits is the way to go. Ride safe.
 
Regenerative braking has theoretical promise to be sure, the ability to recharge your battery while riding, but there are a variety of factors that conspire against it... like physics. Larger vehicles have a better regenerative braking coefficient. With the mass of a train or car, you have a much greater energy conversion through the braking system. The combined mass of a bike and rider is just too low, to generate adequate kinetic energy when braking. Cargo ebikes hauling a heavy load, massive SUV fat-bikes? Theoretically, a heavy bike could provide more rolling mass to generate greater friction and heat conversion, but it still won’t be nearly worth the investment even factoring in decreased brake wear. Plus there is the additional energy use of powering it uphill... the added weight. Another issue is aero, where a significant amount of energy use is employed to overcome aerodynamic drag. This leaves less available energy for you to convert into a regenerative braking system. Most top-end frame designers and real ebike producers prefer the mid-drive motor configuration and most 1st time (older) ebike buyers choose low-end hub-motor bikes creating an insufficient scale to develop a proper regenerative braking breakthrough. Same reason there are so few dedicated eTouring bikes. Not enough sales or profit for anyone to invest. Most importantly with the recharging potential in single-digit percentages, it’s simply not worth it. Sustainable power sources like solar, wind, or hydro, convert cleanly to electrical energy making them very efficient and continually improving. Spinning brake rotors being clamped, to convert kinetic energy to heat, and then trying to channel that into electrical storage at your pack, is a false economy. Not something to wait on, more... pie in the sky.
 
BBassett said:
Regenerative braking has theoretical promise to be sure, the ability to recharge your battery while riding, but there are a variety of factors that conspire against it... like physics. Larger vehicles have a better regenerative braking coefficient. With the mass of a train or car, you have a much greater energy conversion through the braking system. The combined mass of a bike and rider is just too low, to generate adequate kinetic energy when braking. Cargo ebikes hauling a heavy load, massive SUV fat-bikes? Theoretically, a heavy bike could provide more rolling mass to generate greater friction and heat conversion, but it still won’t be nearly worth the investment even factoring in decreased brake wear. Plus there is the additional energy use of powering it uphill... the added weight. Another issue is aero, where a significant amount of energy use is employed to overcome aerodynamic drag. This leaves less available energy for you to convert into a regenerative braking system. Most top-end frame designers and real ebike producers prefer the mid-drive motor configuration and most 1st time (older) ebike buyers choose low-end hub-motor bikes creating an insufficient scale to develop a proper regenerative braking breakthrough. Same reason there are so few dedicated eTouring bikes. Not enough sales or profit for anyone to invest. Most importantly with the recharging potential in single-digit percentages, it’s simply not worth it. Sustainable power sources like solar, wind, or hydro, convert cleanly to electrical energy making them very efficient and continually improving. Spinning brake rotors being clamped, to convert kinetic energy to heat, and then trying to channel that into electrical storage at your pack, is a false economy. Not something to wait on, more... pie in the sky.
Click to expand...

You trying hard to prove yourself being right is almost comical.
Nobody ever claimed in this thread that regen function on ebikes is going to be similar to train or car; either your failure to read or just as you do in most other thread, you assume that's what others have said.
"Aero" has much to do with speed, "aero" benefit only applies if rider is operating above certain speeds, there is not real benefits to being more "aero" if you're just . You only get the benefit of being more aerodynamic when you have reached certain speed and trying to maintain above that speed. BTW, speaking from experience of owning few different recumbent bikes, they have far better aerodynamics than any upright bicycle or ebikes.
Speaking from ownership experience with multiple ebikes that are equipped with regen functions,
I don't expect more than 5 to 8% gain in range for regen.
But if you have an ebike with battery capacity of 80 miles range, 5% is 4 more miles of riding without running our of juice.
Seems to me regen function would be more in demand among the eTouring bike crowd with additional weight and distance traveled while eTouring.

Article is 8 y-o, but still good info: https://www.electricbike.com/regenerative-brakes/

Video is also few years old, but still applies:
 
Reply to Basset

Well, that explains a LOT.

You apparently have no understanding whatsoever of how regen braking actually works. The brake rotors are not involved, whatsoever. There is no clamping. There is no conversion to heat. All occurs within the motor.

It is direct conversion of rotational energy into electricity.

The degree of braking is completely controllable. There is no wear on any moving component. There is simply added rolling resistance. At very low cost, zero additional weight, zero required maintenance.

Have never encountered any experienced rider with a heavily-loaded bike in hilly terrain who was NOT interested in additional braking with NO heat related fade, no weight or maintenance penalty, low or zero additional cost.
 
BBassett said:
Of course, you have sweetheart.
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If you could view my posts, you'd know.. but I guess you can't; so you have no clue what ebikes I own. Keep ignoring my posts, stay ignorant. :LOL:

Why are you even posting in this thread if you think regen function is no good for ebikes?
 
A said:
...Why are you even posting in this thread if you think regen function is no good for ebikes?
Click to expand...
Anybody that rides... or would (could) actually buy a regen hub motor knows, and I told you, I will always call out uninformed, inexperienced drivel to help others not waste money. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... you drive safe.
 
Likely has me on ignore as well.

To call out others for UNINFORMED, INEXPERIENCED DRIVEL when he is claiming regen braking involves use of the disk brakes?????

This chump is nothing but a clueless poser.
 
Nelson37 said:
Likely has me on ignore as well.

To call out others for UNINFORMED, INEXPERIENCED DRIVEL when he is claiming regen braking involves use of the disk brakes?????

This chump is nothing but a clueless poser.
Click to expand...
Not on bike hub motors genius, or washing machines for that matter, same same... but they don't have to deal with the mass that a train does. Sorry, you got confused, again, you seem a little better, are the new meds working? When I get home I would be happy to take you on 1/2 a ride anytime you like.
 
Try speaking english, your babble makes no sense.

You are whining about regen braking, and you do not have a clue how it actually works.

Go back to pimping mid-drives, clown.

Come on a ride with me. I'll show you where the gators live. Worthless twit.
 

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