Carrying a Small Generator for Recharging?
- Thread starter Moabboy
- Start date
Rawly Old
Active member
I'm in the process of building a hybrid gas/electric bike. I had one all set to go when I found a cracked weld where
the bottom stay meets the bottom bracket. Had to start allover, this time with a chromoly steel bike, sturdier &
better suited to long distance touring. Like a Prius, the gas motor charges battery. In addition I've built a bike
trailer with a solar panel that will charge one battery while the engine charges another. The 39cc engine &
kit is exceedingly efficient. Mushing at 3500 rpm & without trailer it will get 50 miles to a liter of fuel.
I have a small Ecoflow River Pro ( 17lbs ) 800W solar or110 wall plug. It' a lithium Iron Phosphate battery. I use it for camping. But just for fun I'm gonna put it on the back pf my ebike with the charger and see how long it last. I just bought 2 more batteries ( 80ah each ) but wont get them from china for at least 4 to 6 weeks lol.
No just for fun I was going to use my genny to see how it works. have not done it yet.
Side note: In my post above I stated I had 2 80ah battery. No they are 2-30ah batteries.
m@Robertson
Well-known member
Talk of using a sogen... You haven't thought that one through unless you cannot afford a battery in place of the sogen you already own, and thats the reason you are thinking of doing it.
The solar generator has a big battery, which you need. It also has a cabinet, plugs, a frame, electronics inside... lots of things you don't need to run an ebike. Also it has an inverter, which you would use to plug your charger into. That inverter introduces fairly large inefficiencies into the draining down of that battery.
Some sogens have DC plugs that exceed the usual 12v output, but pretty much none of them have a plug that is 48v nominal and only about 3a max, which would cover most commercial pin plugs and not fry most BMS'. So to get that, you'll need a charger and behind that an inverter.
Or just get another battery and skip all that extra weight (which you will have to pay for with lost range) and further loss from running DC power thru an inverter.
Compounding the problem with the Ecoflow is its LFP cells. Those are great for some things but there's a reason no commercial ebike uses them: Low energy density, so to get good capacity you have to add in more of them. My Bluetti sogen uses LFP cells and has 2000wh. Which is great except it freaking weighs 60 pounds.
Once every several months someone gets the idea of towing a generator along with them (it needs to be towed in a trailer generally, due to the weight involved). Consider that such a thing is not a new idea and if it was remotely efficient in actual practice, it would be a common solution, just like it is with cars.
The solar generator has a big battery, which you need. It also has a cabinet, plugs, a frame, electronics inside... lots of things you don't need to run an ebike. Also it has an inverter, which you would use to plug your charger into. That inverter introduces fairly large inefficiencies into the draining down of that battery.
Some sogens have DC plugs that exceed the usual 12v output, but pretty much none of them have a plug that is 48v nominal and only about 3a max, which would cover most commercial pin plugs and not fry most BMS'. So to get that, you'll need a charger and behind that an inverter.
Or just get another battery and skip all that extra weight (which you will have to pay for with lost range) and further loss from running DC power thru an inverter.
Compounding the problem with the Ecoflow is its LFP cells. Those are great for some things but there's a reason no commercial ebike uses them: Low energy density, so to get good capacity you have to add in more of them. My Bluetti sogen uses LFP cells and has 2000wh. Which is great except it freaking weighs 60 pounds.
Once every several months someone gets the idea of towing a generator along with them (it needs to be towed in a trailer generally, due to the weight involved). Consider that such a thing is not a new idea and if it was remotely efficient in actual practice, it would be a common solution, just like it is with cars.
My Ecoflow River Pro ( 17lbs ) 800W solar or110 wall plug. It' a lithium Iron Phosphate battery. Now one of my batteries need to get charge so just for fun I go plug it in the sogen and see what it what the wattage pulls.
Pulls 187 watts from my sogen.
Pulls 187 watts from my sogen.
m@Robertson
Well-known member
You sure about that? Ecoflow does not specify the battery chemistry (although they do call it "lithium ion") , but they do say it is only good for 800+ cycles, which is your typical Li-NMC count. If it was LFP you'd be talking about it being good for 3000+ cycles.
Buy EcoFlow RIVER Pro Portable Power Station | RIVER Pro Portable Power Station | EcoFlow
Official EcoFlow RIVER Pro: ✓ Capacity：720Wh ✓ Output: 600W (Surge 1200W). Click to learn more!
us.ecoflow.com
EDIT: I poked around and Ecoflow does say the Delta Pro uses "LFP" and they advertise the benefits of LFP, so its not a case of them being unclear in their marketing. According to their web site the River Pro uses the more mundane cell chemistry. Which explains in part why the River Pro is only 17 lbs.
You sure about that? Ecoflow does not specify the battery chemistry (although they do call it "lithium ion") , but they do say it is only good for 800+ cycles, which is your typical Li-NMC count. If it was LFP you'd be talking about it being good for 3000+ cycles.
Buy EcoFlow RIVER Pro Portable Power Station | RIVER Pro Portable Power Station | EcoFlow
Official EcoFlow RIVER Pro: ✓ Capacity：720Wh ✓ Output: 600W (Surge 1200W). Click to learn more!
EDIT: I poked around and Ecoflow does say the Delta Pro uses "LFP" and they advertise the benefits of LFP, so its not a case of them being unclear in their marketing. According to their web site the River Pro uses the more mundane cell chemistry. Which explains in part why the River Pro is only 17 lbs.
I love this SOGEN!!
Here are the specs: Note: LFP stands for
Lithium Ferro Phosphate technology
Lithium Ferro Phosphate technology (also known as LFP or LiFePO4), which appeared in 1996, is replacing other battery technologies because of its technical advantages and very high level of safety.
Here are the specs:
•Sizeable 768Wh capacity and 800W output
•Provide up to 1.8kWh a day with solar charging
•Fastest Recharge 0-100% in only 70 min Life Po4
•Safest LFP battery provides 10 years of use
•First power station with a TÜV Rheinland safety certification
•X-Boost output to 1600W and run 80% of home appliances
•4 ways to charge: AC, car, solar, and USB-C
•Lightweight at only 7.8kg ( 17lbs )
•<30ms EPS auto-switch for essential devices
•Smart app control with Bluetooth or Wi-Fi
Overview
Hope that helps
Cya
Side note: The link you posted for the sogen is "NOT" the one I have. I have this one!!
EcoFlow RIVER 2 Pro Portable Power Station | RIVER 2 Pro Portable Power Station
•Sizeable 768Wh capacity and 800W output •Provide up to 1.8kWh a day with solar charging •Fastest Recharge 0-100% in only 70 min •Safest LFP battery provides 10 years of use •First power station with a TÜV Rheinland safety certification •X-Boost output to 1600W and run 80% of home appliances •4...
us.ecoflow.com
m@Robertson
Well-known member
Yeah I know what it stands for. I have a portable 2kwh sogen and it uses LFP cells. My home system - which has more than 12kwh of storage - uses LFP. Thats about 400 pounds of freaking LFP batteries not counting anything else in the system.
The River Pro doesn't use LFP. I linked the Ecoflow product page above and you can read it yourself. Then go to Ecoflow's Delta Pro page and see how Ecoflow markets a sogen that really does have LFP. They tout its praises accordingly.
Your first clue that the River Pro does not use LFP is reading the spec that says its only good for 800 charge cycles. That ain't LFP.
Ecoflow is playing a little game in the River Pro's specs. They say the Delta Pro is good for 6500 cycles. Thats about double the 3500 cycles that LFP typically supports. They boosted that number by changing the story. 6500 cycles is degrading down to 50% capacity. Typical battery degradation ratings go to 80%, not 50%. So they fudged the specs to be able to give a higher number than anyone else who follows industry standards.
The River Pro doesn't use LFP. I linked the Ecoflow product page above and you can read it yourself. Then go to Ecoflow's Delta Pro page and see how Ecoflow markets a sogen that really does have LFP. They tout its praises accordingly.
Your first clue that the River Pro does not use LFP is reading the spec that says its only good for 800 charge cycles. That ain't LFP.
Ecoflow is playing a little game in the River Pro's specs. They say the Delta Pro is good for 6500 cycles. Thats about double the 3500 cycles that LFP typically supports. They boosted that number by changing the story. 6500 cycles is degrading down to 50% capacity. Typical battery degradation ratings go to 80%, not 50%. So they fudged the specs to be able to give a higher number than anyone else who follows industry standards.
Well as long as it works for me that way I want it to I have no problems at all with this sogen! I love this sogen!
Thanks for the reply
addertooth
Well-known member
I considered a "solar trailer" but then realized the very fast Arizona winds that happen sometimes and nixed the deal. A couple big solar panels represent a LOT of "sail area" to tip any trailer over when in motion. We have had some days with winds up to 70 MPH with clear blue skies. I joke that Arizona is the only state I have lived in with Hurricane Winds, while the sky is clear and blue.
On most eBikes, your motor is drawing about 350-600 watts to cruise along at 20 MPH. Most factory chargers typically supply less than 400 watts of charging ability, my two chargers for my 48 Volt bikes are down in the 162 Watt range. Or, in other words, less than break-even replacement rate for a 20 MPH cruise.
A hybrid bike would need to replace the used power (minimally) at an equal rate it is being used at. Now, if you are willing to dawdle at 10 MPH for 8 hours straight it is easier to make break-even. I will say that 8 hours in the saddle would be an unpleasant experience (to travel a total of 80 miles). I would take a different approach and simply get a 40 MPH eBike and put a larger battery in it. If the battery is sized to run you at 40 MPH for two hours, that would cover the same 80 miles, but with only 2 hours of riding. Then, at the destination/stopping-point use your charger to recharge your batteries while you enjoy more time at your destination. Quite frankly, even four hours of riding at 20 MPH would be preferable over 8 hours. It would also reduce the size your battery pack would have to be to achieve this goal when compared to a 40 MPH cruise.
But then, all of these numbers are ballpark theoretical numbers. The bike/terrain/winds/weight would cause these numbers to shift dramatically. But, for people who dream of the long cruise, this is why we are seeing a growing number of eBikes being made with 60-80 Amp Hour battery packs.
On most eBikes, your motor is drawing about 350-600 watts to cruise along at 20 MPH. Most factory chargers typically supply less than 400 watts of charging ability, my two chargers for my 48 Volt bikes are down in the 162 Watt range. Or, in other words, less than break-even replacement rate for a 20 MPH cruise.
A hybrid bike would need to replace the used power (minimally) at an equal rate it is being used at. Now, if you are willing to dawdle at 10 MPH for 8 hours straight it is easier to make break-even. I will say that 8 hours in the saddle would be an unpleasant experience (to travel a total of 80 miles). I would take a different approach and simply get a 40 MPH eBike and put a larger battery in it. If the battery is sized to run you at 40 MPH for two hours, that would cover the same 80 miles, but with only 2 hours of riding. Then, at the destination/stopping-point use your charger to recharge your batteries while you enjoy more time at your destination. Quite frankly, even four hours of riding at 20 MPH would be preferable over 8 hours. It would also reduce the size your battery pack would have to be to achieve this goal when compared to a 40 MPH cruise.
But then, all of these numbers are ballpark theoretical numbers. The bike/terrain/winds/weight would cause these numbers to shift dramatically. But, for people who dream of the long cruise, this is why we are seeing a growing number of eBikes being made with 60-80 Amp Hour battery packs.
P
pagheca
Guest
I noticed that many people here use Ah, but the physical quantity that really matters to define the range is the energy (Wh). Without saying the voltage (36, 48, 72...V), this number doesn't tell us much, neither say how large and heavy the battery is.
You could always get an ARC 8kw turbine generator. It’s only 20lbs and $20k.
fusionflight.com
ARC: Micro Turbine Generator - FusionFlight
Power your electrical device with the ARC micro turbine generator. 8kW Power. Easily carried by hand. Diesel fuel. Purchase yours today!
fusionflight.com
I agree watt hours is much more useful and tells you how much energy is stored in the battery no matter the voltage.
I think this is a product of how they sell the batteries. The voltage is given and then they list the battery capacity in either AH or sometime even mAH my wife's battery is labeled 48V 20,000mAH My battery is 52V 10AH. So when people post here they often drop the voltage and will describe their battery as a 30AH battery without telling you the voltage.
It must be about marketing, making it harder for people to make useful comparisons. And I mean 20,000mAH sound like a lot more than 20AH doesn't it?
lol. $20,000 bucks. But it makes 8kw and weighs 20 lbs.
And it will burn kerosene or diesel or any heavy fuel.
WOW!! $20,000 bux!! That's even worse. I'm Running in my home 6k watts with my Ecoflow Delta 2 max with 2 extra batteries for $3500 bux. $20,000 bux Not worth it in my view.
Rawly Old
Active member
You can get a solar backpack from Walmart , 'about $70 I think.
