Aventon Pace now has a v3.0

[Snoop]

Just noted my Pace 500 v2 now has a v3 option available. Looks like the big changes include the rear integrated lights, which are smaller and more posteriorly located, but now have turn signal blink capability, which is kinda cool.

It also comes now with a torque sensor instead of cadence. Not sure how I feel about that as I don’t do a ton of hills where I live.

The v2 is now on sale, and well worth a look, IMO, if you’re shopping.
Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Aventon. Just like my bike.

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[Smaug]

I just noticed this model too. I'm scheming on how to get one for my wife.

The Level.2 that I have seems to have been the test bed for this, and now the Pace 500.3 has some changes:

• It's worth noting that these bikes have torque-sensing but are NOT mid drive; they're still hub drive.
• Added turn signals in the bottom of the seat stays
• They have copied Bosch and renamed the PAS from 1-5 to Eco, Tour, Sport and Turbo
• There's a promo now for $200 off a second battery! ($300 instead of $500)
• Rack & fenders aren't included
• No water bottle bosses

It's also worth noting that the 500.2 and 350.2 are now marked down.

I wonder if a 350.3 is coming with the torque sensing and such?

 

[ecrawler]

New to ebikes and this forum. Is it okay to piggyback onto this previous post since it seems kind of related? Or should I have started a new thread?

Today I test rode a Pace 350.2, immediately followed by a Pace 500.3. Being my first ebike ride ever, I was amazed by the 350.2. Then I was blown away by the 500.3. For equal $ I would go with a xxx.3 over a xxx.2 in a heart beat for the feel of the torque sensor over the cadence sesor. But I'm torn on the cost difference, because for all I know after a few years this ebike might have something broken that costs too much to fix. Anyway, wondering who out there has had some experience with both a xxx.2 with a cadence sensor, and a xxx.3 with the torque sensor, for more of a long-term comparison ? By xxx I mean either a Pace 350 or Pace 500. Of course there are other important differences between the 350 and 500 but here I'm focusing on the feel of the cadence sensor vs torque sensor.

To get along better with the cadence sensor, one thing I wish the xxx.2 had was a way to reduce the top speed of the Level 1 pedal assist. Since there are 5 assist levels, I really feel the top speed of the first level could have been kept much lower which would be helpful for a cadence sensor based bike. And I wish the throttle lever's top speed could be adjusted independently from the pedal assist level that is set. That way you could keep the pedal assist very very low if you want, and just use the throttle when you want it as a separate boost. The way it is now it seemed like the throttle lever's top speed was tied to the same as the top speed of the pedal assist setting.

 

[Smaug]

New to ebikes and this forum.

Welcome, from SE WI!

Is it okay to piggyback onto this previous post since it seems kind of related? Or should I have started a new thread?

Piggyback away!

Today I test rode a Pace 350.2, immediately followed by a Pace 500.3. Being my first ebike ride ever, I was amazed by the 350.2. Then I was blown away by the 500.3. For equal $ I would go with a xxx.3 over a xxx.2 in a heart beat for the feel of the torque sensor over the cadence sesor.

It's not equal money, though. That's the rub.

But I'm torn on the cost difference, because for all I know after a few years this ebike might have something broken that costs too much to fix. Anyway, wondering who out there has had some experience with both a xxx.2 with a cadence sensor, and a xxx.3 with the torque sensor, for more of a long-term comparison ?

I only have one Aventon, the Level.2, which is equivalent to the Pace 500.3 in terms of drive hardware. (torque sensing, hub motor drive) It has over 350 miles on it now with no problems. I also have an Electra Townie GO! 7D with a torque sensor and hub motor. Fewer miles on it, but no problems there either. My last eBike is a Lectric XP Lite, with a cadence sensor and hub motor. (~290 miles on it) No problems there either.

<snip>
To get along better with the cadence sensor, one thing I wish the xxx.2 had was a way to reduce the top speed of the Level 1 pedal assist. Since there are 5 assist levels, I really feel the top speed of the first level could have been kept much lower which would be helpful for a cadence sensor based bike.

I wrote to Aventon and recommended this; they said they'd forward it to their design team. There's no reason not to make it user-adjustable, as long as it stays within certain limits. Their cheap Chinese competition allows this for less money. I think Aventon is just trying to keep it simple, so they don't have to field a bunch of phone calls relating to someone who screwed up the programming.

And I wish the throttle lever's top speed could be adjusted independently from the pedal assist level that is set. That way you could keep the pedal assist very very low if you want, and just use the throttle when you want it as a separate boost. The way it is now it seemed like the throttle lever's top speed was tied to the same as the top speed of the pedal assist setting.

This is a good idea, too. Lectric has it so that as long as PAS is at 1 or above, the throttle can take me all the way to the top speed. I can tool around at 10 mph in PAS 1 (~8 mph) but when I see a stale green light up ahead, I can drop the hammer and make it through. Or, when my daughter is riding with me and she doesn't have a perfect PAS level at a speed to keep up without passing me, she can set it one PAS lower and just throttle every now and then. You should write to them and suggest it.

*************

Which eBike did you end up buying? ...or are you still thinking on it?

Aventon is a good value. Higher quality than all the cheaper brands, but price is not pushed into the higher end brands like Specialized or Blix.

 

[ecrawler]

.

Thanks very much for the info.. Haven't purchased yet. Really struggling on the choice. Torn between the Pace 350.2 step-through vs Pace 500.2 step-over vs Pace 500.3 step-through. Leaning towards the 350.2 for the price but you do get a lot more with the 500.2 because of the articulating stem and better shifters and of course the more powerful motor. The 500.3 is the best but not knowing how long these things last I hate to throw too much $ at it.

When you mentioned that you had sent Aventon an email, do you mean this is something you had sent them a while back, or just yesterday as a result of my post?

I personally think it's kind of a design flaw for PAS Leve 1 top speed to be more than half of the full top speed. If you watch the review in the link below, at time 12:20, the reviewer mentions she's reaching 15mph in Level 1. If Aventon isn't going to give control over the different levels, then at least spread the levels out more. I'd like to see Level 1 top out at 5 or 6mph, Level 2 at say 9mph, Level 3 at 12mph, Level 4 at 15mph, and Level 5 at 20mph.

I contacted Aventon and they did tell me that with the app I could lower the overall top speed, but can't adjust the top speed of the lower levels. So I think if I do lower the top overall speed it won't reduce the other levels proportionally. So let's say I set the top speed at 10mph just for arguments sake. Then essentially Levels 1 through 5 would all respond the same way. If an existing owner of a 350.2 or 500.2 could confirm that would be very helpful.

In the review in this link, at 15:00, she also mentions there isn't much difference between Levels 3-through-5 in her experience with it because they're all reaching to speed. I feel like that's a waste of levels.

Some of these features would certainly technically be possible it would seem like with just the program change. But now with the xxx.3 out Aventon will probably spend less time worrying about updates for the xxx.2 versions. About having ability to set levels for the throttle that are independent of the PAS levels, I will probably contact them but I'm not at all optimistic they'll be supportive of it. We need a hacker.

 

[Smaug]

Thanks very much for the info.. Haven't purchased yet. Really struggling on the choice. Torn between the Pace 350.2 step-through vs Pace 500.2 step-over vs Pace 500.3 step-through. Leaning towards the 350.2 for the price but you do get a lot more with the 500.2 because of the articulating stem and better shifters and of course the more powerful motor. The 500.3 is the best but not knowing how long these things last I hate to throw too much $ at it.

I think the value sweet spot for YOU is the Pace 500.2. You save a few hundred by not having torque sensing and you have the speed control you seem to prefer. The more powerful motor is one thing, but the higher 28 mph top assisted speed is a big reason for me. The 350.2 is the one you'd buy for your wife or teenaged kid. Turn signals on the 500.3 would've been nice to have on my Level.2.

The thing about the torque sensing is that it always assists in proportion to YOUR effort, up to the top speed you program in. It doesn't have speed limits associated at each PAS level like the cadence sensing. I've gone 32 mph in PAS1. (28 assisted and the last 4 mph were a burst of energy from me) If you're honed in on the PAS working off of speed instead of your effort only (torque) then you should take a pass on the torque sensing bikes and save yourself some money.

When you mentioned that you had sent Aventon an email, do you mean this is something you had sent them a while back, or just yesterday as a result of my post?

Awhile back.

I personally think it's kind of a design flaw for PAS Leve 1 top speed to be more than half of the full top speed.

No, because torque sensing isn't related to speed; it just gives a certain percentage more torque than you're applying, limited only by the top speed you've programmed the bike at. I cranked mine all the way up to Class 3, because I don't want to be limited.

If you watch the review in the link below, at time 12:20, the reviewer mentions she's reaching 15mph in Level 1.

That's just the amount of torque she was putting in, + whatever torque percentage the bike is adding.

If Aventon isn't going to give control over the different levels, then at least spread the levels out more. I'd like to see Level 1 top out at 5 or 6mph, Level 2 at say 9mph, Level 3 at 12mph, Level 4 at 15mph, and Level 5 at 20mph.

As above, torque sensing is not related to speeds. My suggestion was to just spread out the extra torque a bit more. PAS1 is a LOT of extra power. If I'm pedaling at 13 mph with a comfortable level of effort, that same level of effort with PAS1 takes me to 20+ pretty often.

I contacted Aventon and they did tell me that with the app I could lower the overall top speed, but can't adjust the top speed of the lower levels. So I think if I do lower the top overall speed it won't reduce the other levels proportionally. So let's say I set the top speed at 10mph just for arguments sake. Then essentially Levels 1 through 5 would all respond the same way. If an existing owner of a 350.2 or 500.2 could confirm that would be very helpful.

In the review in this link, at 15:00, she also mentions there isn't much difference between Levels 3-through-5 in her experience with it because they're all reaching to speed. I feel like that's a waste of levels.

Maybe. I found the same thing, but when climbing a hill or heading into a stiff headwind, there are differences you can see.

Some of these features would certainly technically be possible it would seem like with just the program change. But now with the xxx.3 out Aventon will probably spend less time worrying about updates for the xxx.2 versions. About having ability to set levels for the throttle that are independent of the PAS levels, I will probably contact them but I'm not at all optimistic they'll be supportive of it. We need a hacker.

I'll go watch the video now, but it sounds like one I've already seen.

 

[ecrawler]

.

Thanks very much for the additional info.. I did a test ride of the Pace 350.2 and 500.3 before posting my original question. I really greatly prefer the torque sensor of the 500.3 but I don't want to pay for it (if I somehow knew that in 3 years this bike would still be going strong without having to dump much $ into it, then I'd go for the 500.3)

Between the 500.2 and 350.2, the 500.2 would be the obvious choice except we really want a step-through. I can't find any 500.2 step-throughs, and very few 350.2 step-throughs. This is mostly for one of my adult kids, but I want to ride it some too, and possibly my wife too.

I reached back out to Aventon and they said that if you do reduce the top speed by using the app, it will also reduce some the PAS levels. (probably not many people in the world want to reduce top speed just for the sake of reducing PAS 1).

Really appreciate all the help. Hopefully soon we'll be an owner.

 

[Smaug]

Why are you so worried about the torque sensor pooping out?

 

[ecrawler]

Why are you so worried about the torque sensor pooping out?

My concern isn't specific to just the torque sensor but the whole ebike. I don't know how long they last or how much replacement parts cost for the major components. I'm also worried a little about theft, because my adult kid will be parking it and locking it up in various places, as a form of transportation. Just needs to lock it up well I suppose.

Overall I guess trying to find the balance between features, longevity and $.

 

[Smaug]

Ah, I see. I think if he locks it up properly, and it's not left overnight in a shady area, it'll be fine. One thing to watch for there is the quick-release/adjust seat post. On my commuter, I went to the local bike shop and bought an old school locking collar with the allen screw instead of the cam lever.

On the Aventons, the batteries come out with a key: unlock it, flip a lever and the battery drops out, leaving a gaping hole in the bottom of the downtube. A thief that is attracted because it's a nice eBike will likely not want it when he sees the proprietary $600 battery is missing. (as a side note, this is a nice feature for winter storage and for easy charging where you don't want to bring the whole bike)

Is your son careful with stuff? If not, it might be better to go with the cheaper one for now. It's funny, but I consider myself a person who realizes it makes more sense to buy a better product up front than to buy a cheap one first, but eBikes are a lot of money. The first one I bought was a heybike Ranger, which was $1400 at the time. (they're $1k now) it was a Chinese straight-to-customer bike from Amazon. It was OK, had good reviews and specs, but the execution left something to be desired. I considered that a lot of money at the time, but now I realize $1400 is barely mid-level, as far as eBikes are concerned.

I predict what's going to happen is you'll buy it "for him" but either you'll use it more or you'll fight for it and have to immediately buy another one. Might be better going with a pair of the simpler, outgoing Class 1 350s; I think you can get a discount for doing that? 20 mph is fast enough to be practical. That is a speed that a serious road cyclist can't maintain with any kind of wind or hill, but which an eBike can even if a fellow is flabby. Although my Level.2 is Class 3 (assisted up to 28 mph) and it is a feature I HAD to have, I rarely go faster than about 23 mph in practice. For 20 mph, 350 W is more than enough power.

Now that I think of it, I think it is Juiced that has a big discount if you buy two eBikes at once...

 

[ecrawler]

.

Your predictions might turn out to be true

By the way, of the pros and cons, I had been thinking one of the pros of the 350.2 is that moving up the $ ladder to get say the 500.2 or 500.3 or even higher probably doesn't get me any additional reliability compared to what the 350.2 offers. (I don't really know if that's true) And how well my son takes care of it is one of the considerations. I'm not saying he won't take good care of it, but I do suspect it would get put through its paces (wow, accidental pun with the Paces thing but I like it). Don't be surprised if soon you'll be talking to the owner of a new 350.2.

Back to the reliability thing, after I had been focusing on a new ebike. A few days ago I started looking up used ebikes just to see, and it seemed like kind of a big graveyard in terms of what I saw for sale used online. And although I don't remember seeing too many from good brands, there were a lot of ebikes in the $100 to $200 range that looked like they probably cost over $1k not long ago.

 

[Smaug]

Your predictions might turn out to be true

By the way, of the pros and cons, I had been thinking one of the pros of the 350.2 is that moving up the $ ladder to get say the 500.2 or 500.3 or even higher probably doesn't get me any additional reliability compared to what the 350.2 offers. (I don't really know if that's true)

It's true. But it's also true that practically no one worries about reliability of an eBike, once they have it. Compared to an engine-powered bike, they're a lot simpler. Even the cheap Chinese ones are reliable. You should take that off your list of worries.

And how well my son takes care of it is one of the considerations. I'm not saying he won't take good care of it, but I do suspect it would get put through its paces (wow, accidental pun with the Paces thing but I like it).

About your son, you say he is an adult. Is he going to college, or does he just not want to move out? The reason I ask is that a lot of kids aren't moving out these days. My mom used to say I always have a place to stay if I need it. Later in life, she told me she wanted me to know I had a place to stay, but she didn't want me to be too comfortable, because then I might think I didn't need to move out and get on with my own life. The reason I bring it up is that if he's an adult child and not going to college, buying him an eBike isn't going to encourage him to get out on his own.

Don't be surprised if soon you'll be talking to the owner of a new 350.2.

Maybe The Thing to Do is get an 350.2 for your son. You ride it and decide if you want the extra power & speed that a 500.x (or Level.2) would offer. If you do, no worries. Sonny boy got a freeby, so he's not going to complain if yours is faster.

Back to the reliability thing, after I had been focusing on a new ebike. A few days ago I started looking up used ebikes just to see, and it seemed like kind of a big graveyard in terms of what I saw for sale used online. And although I don't remember seeing too many from good brands, there were a lot of ebikes in the $100 to $200 range that looked like they probably cost over $1k not long ago.

I don't think it's lack of reliability, but lack of quality. My first bike had some issues all related to basic parts and build quality, but no problems with reliability. The pedals squeaked and the brakes screeched. The pedals got better with oil, but the brakes got worse and worse. The seat was awful. I also bought a fat tire bike even though I didn't need it. I came to resent the fact that they were sapping my battery unnecessarily, and ESPECIALLY so if I went over about 13 mph. I remember looking at the current draw at 20 mph under throttle-only and then with me pedaling as hard as I could . At that speed, my pedaling made almost no difference. All the affordable choices seemed to be fat tire bikes. So? I sold it at a huge loss. I think $700; half of what I paid and it only had a few hundred miles on it.

I had another cheap Chinese bike, the $500 Sailnovo from Amazon. It was quiet and reliable and a pretty nice design overall. What it didn't have though was inherent stability. The steering geometry just wasn't right for a bike with 12 or 14" wheels. My stepdaughter crashed it twice, I think because she reached for her phone and it got really wobbly if one didn't have both hands on the grips. My niece crashed it, and after the third crash, the rear brake was all bent up. I wound up giving it away. I called that one The Widowmaker.

Buy buying a known good brand like Aventon or Lectric, you'll avoid the basic quality problems and can count on overall good design from the getgo. On my Lectric XP Lite for example, ($800 bike) the quality is good, but there are a couple of refinements I would hope for. You can check out my review of it here in the folding bike subforum. Just simple things like not routing wires in front of the key slot and masking better when painting the frame.

No reliability problems though!

 

[ecrawler]

......

Haven't had a chance to get back for a few days. It's really good to hear that reliability isn't inherently a big issue on these. And I'm feeling pretty good about the direction I think we're heading. (Pace 350.2)

When I mentioned adult, he's actually just barely out of his teens. I was just trying to distinguish from say a 14 or 15 year kid kind of situation. He's a great kid, still kind of figuring out his path (hmm, bicycle path, another pun ?).

About fat tire bikes, I thought those looked enticing. But I remember as a kid what the difference was like trying to pedal a bike with fat low pressure tires ( a lot of energy wasted).

I'm starting to think about the kickstand. I'm not sure if I remember the test ride correctly, but I have this impression in my mind that the kickstand wasn't all that great. It's been a long time since we've had a bike kickstand where I thought "solid". And it seems like every bike we've had in the last umpteen years has had a bad fall because either we weren't careful or the kickstand stunk. I think kickstands need of a wider pad at the bottom so they don't sink into the grass, like some motorcycle kickstands. Don't want any of the expensive electronics etc to get damaged.

 

[Smaug]

About fat tire bikes, I thought those looked enticing. But I remember as a kid what the difference was like trying to pedal a bike with fat low pressure tires ( a lot of energy wasted).

Yes. If he REALLY will do a lot of riding on surfaces like grass and loose sand or snow (but not too deep) fat tires can be good. You're trading speed and efficiency for surface versatility.

I'm starting to think about the kickstand. I'm not sure if I remember the test ride correctly, but I have this impression in my mind that the kickstand wasn't all that great. It's been a long time since we've had a bike kickstand where I thought "solid". And it seems like every bike we've had in the last umpteen years has had a bad fall because either we weren't careful or the kickstand stunk. I think kickstands need of a wider pad at the bottom so they don't sink into the grass, like some motorcycle kickstands. Don't want any of the expensive electronics etc to get damaged.

eBike kickstands are more robust, to handle the extra weight. They're also usually mounted further back, so if you load up the front of the bike too much, you may find it won't hold the bike up. Cargo bikes often have center stands that are quite useful. (but heavy)

 

[ecrawler]

Yes. If he REALLY will do a lot of riding on surfaces like grass and loose sand or snow (but not too deep) fat tires can be good. You're trading speed and efficiency for surface versatility.


eBike kickstands are more robust, to handle the extra weight. They're also usually mounted further back, so if you load up the front of the bike too much, you may find it won't hold the bike up. Cargo bikes often have center stands that are quite useful. (but heavy)

Smaug (or anybody that knows the answer)... With the Pace 500.2 with cadence sensor (or a 350.2), do you know if the amount of torque from the motor varies with the speed at which you're pedaling, for a given PAS level? Let me explain in more detail. When I test rode the 350.2, I could have sworn that once I was ghost pedaling, the amount of motor contribution didn't depend at all on how fast I was ghost pedaling. It seemed like once the motor was On, it would stay on at a consistent contribution unless I stopped pedaling completely, and try to achieve the top speed of the particular PAS level setting (which I mostly kept at 1 that day), even if I ghost pedaled at a crawl pace. It was one of the things I didn't care for compared to the 500.3 I test rode on the same day which was awesome.

But.....I just read the following two statements off of Aventon's website where it describes cadence sensors, which makes me think maybe my impressions of the test ride on the 350.2 were wrong. I copied the following directly from Aventon's website in the description of cadence sensors. I've changed the key sentences to red. I interpret this to mean that if you were ghost pedaling at two different speeds within the same PAS level, you would get two different motor contributions.

From Aventon website:
*************************************************************
"The amount of effort a rider puts into pedaling and the selected pedal assist level will influence the amount of power the motor contributes. On cadence-based pedal assist systems, manufacturers typically have predetermined and preset speeds per each level of pedal assist. As a rider’s pedal cadence increases, the motor will continue to output until it reaches that predefined threshold, maintaining it as necessary amid varying terrains, gear levels, and the rider’s ongoing pedal cadence.

Key takeaways:

• As the rider’s pedaling speed (i.e. their cadence) increases, the pedal-assist will increase the motor’s output (i.e. power contribution).
• As a rider’s pedaling speed decreases, PAS will decrease the motor’s output to propel the rider forward.

 

[Smaug]

Smaug (or anybody that knows the answer)... With the Pace 500.2 with cadence sensor (or a 350.2), do you know if the amount of torque from the motor varies with the speed at which you're pedaling, for a given PAS level?

No, it will not vary. It will give as much torque as possible to get you up to the speed associated with that PAS setting.

If you want it to vary, you need torque sensing.

Let me explain in more detail. When I test rode the 350.2, I could have sworn that once I was ghost pedaling, the amount of motor contribution didn't depend at all on how fast I was ghost pedaling. It seemed like once the motor was On, it would stay on at a consistent contribution unless I stopped pedaling completely, and try to achieve the top speed of the particular PAS level setting (which I mostly kept at 1 that day), even if I ghost pedaled at a crawl pace. It was one of the things I didn't care for compared to the 500.3 I test rode on the same day which was awesome.

But.....I just read the following two statements off of Aventon's website where it describes cadence sensors, which makes me think maybe my impressions of the test ride on the 350.2 were wrong. I copied the following directly from Aventon's website in the description of cadence sensors. I've changed the key sentences to red. I interpret this to mean that if you were ghost pedaling at two different speeds within the same PAS level, you would get two different motor contributions.

From Aventon website:
*************************************************************
"The amount of effort a rider puts into pedaling and the selected pedal assist level will influence the amount of power the motor contributes. On cadence-based pedal assist systems, manufacturers typically have predetermined and preset speeds per each level of pedal assist. As a rider’s pedal cadence increases, the motor will continue to output until it reaches that predefined threshold, maintaining it as necessary amid varying terrains, gear levels, and the rider’s ongoing pedal cadence.

Key takeaways:

• As the rider’s pedaling speed (i.e. their cadence) increases, the pedal-assist will increase the motor’s output (i.e. power contribution).
• As a rider’s pedaling speed decreases, PAS will decrease the motor’s output to propel the rider forward.

It's true in the sense that it takes more power to maintain 20 mph than 10 mph, but it's not proportional to the power you put in, unless you have a torque sensor.

Torque and power are related, but are not the same thing. Torque is pure force, power includes torque AND speed.

The bottom line is that bikes with torque sensing are going to be more efficient, unless you really think about what you're doing. For example, on a cadence sensor only bike, set your PAS to a speed just below where you want to be, then use your pedal power to get that last bit.

There's no way to save the money from a torque sensor and get that natural feeling, which I think is what you're getting at. You always have to think about what you're doing to get good efficiency. You're enough of a thinker that you wouldn't have a problem with it, I can already tell that. Your son? I don't know.

Here's another example:
I set my cadence sensing bike to PAS2, which is about 12 mph. As soon as I get a revolution or two into pedaling, the motor will input maximum power to get me to 12 mph. Better programmed bikes will do this more gradually, but it's not going to depend on your pedaling torque. It uses a lot of power this way. Once you get to the gear and torque you need to actually exceed that 12 mph, the electric system won't be doing anything; it will just kick in automatically when you would have gotten below that speed associated with the PAS setting, like when you hit a hill or headwind that would normally knock you below 12 mph on a purely mechanical bike.

At the faster speeds, let's say 25 mph, you may not be able to produce enough torque of your own to go that fast, so the bike will contribute as much as possible to keep you at that speed. Your own energy will supplement the motor's, so you'll save power that way, but you'll find that the bike is doing most of the work and your battery will drain QUICKLY. Sometimes, you'll be OK with that and sometimes you'll be trying to hyper-mile it. (depending on your personality and your mission for the day)

There are a lot of very lazy riders who really just want a powered bike without having to license and insure it and they will just use throttle.

There are mostly lazy riders who will go through the pedaling motion, but will let the bike do most of the work anyway.

There are less lazy riders who want to go fast, but will put more effort in. They still want exercise, but they also don't want their speed to be so dependent upon wind and hills as on a purely mechanical bike.

Then, there are the LEAST lazy riders who will do most of the work, but just let the electric kick in for help with hills and winds, to keep moving.

************

Now, if I may say so, it's time to exit the Analysis Paralysis phase and just buy something. (unless you're saving your pennies at the moment ;-) )

 

[ecrawler]

...

Thanks again for the good info.. There is quite a bit that has happened. In the end I feel like I probably made not the best decision, but will live with it. This is a long message, you better first go get some rest.

About paralysis analysis, although I am often guilty of that for sure, in this case it's been a little different. I actually did pull the trigger and ordered the only white 350.2 step-through that I could find, and that was through best buy. Felt good about the decision. Go to pick it up this past Monday and they didn't have it. Nobody can figure out what is happening. They said even though I got an email that Monday was pickup day, they have no bike and have no idea when it will arrive and show it as on backorder and essentially no activity on the account since the evening I placed the order. Since I know the 350.2 is discontinued, I'm basically certain they'll never have it for me. I tried to escalate at the store and they said better to call. So I called the number they gave me and I'm pretty shocked how bad Best Buy's customer service has become. They were polite and all, but no results and nobody has a clue what is happening with my order and no interest to try and make things right with the customer. They offer no alternative bike, no anything, no promise date on delivery, no idea where it is. I asked for an email that I could use to communicate my issues but they don't have an email address for customers to use. Asked for a manager but no luck. I seldom boycott a store out of principle, but I have zero plans to use Best Buy ever again (or at least not for several years ). I think amazon's presence has made it difficult for a lot of these places.

Anyway, since I wanted a step-through and there are essentially no 350.2 or 500.2 step-throughs left, I was debating between a 500.2 step-over (in stock locally) vs a 500.3 step-through (would have to order). That was a really difficult decision, and end the end I think I chose poorly. I got the 500.2 with cadence sensor, and in fact picked it up today. I would say some of your comments are spot on. With the torque sensor 500.3 that I test rode, you could set a PAS level and just leave it there if you wanted. This evening doing a lot of test riding on the new 500.2, you kind of always have to keep adjusting the PAS level up and down. For example if you're in PAS level 4 or 5, it's never really a good idea to slow way down or stop without reducing the PAS level back to 1 or 2. If you leave it at 4 or 5 it's not a graceful situation whatsoever and kind of out of control. Although I don't mind it for me so much, for others in my family I think the torque sensor would have been better, because nobody else but me is going to want to keep monkeying around with the controls. I should have simply paid the extra $400 to get the 500.3 step-through and waited for it to arrive.

But here is the other thing that I'm pretty surprised by. I had contacted Aventon a couple weeks ago and they said I could reduce the top speed. I thought that applied to not just while pedaling, but it would also reduce the max speed for throttle only. But that's simply not true. Even if I change the max speed to 12mph using the app, and set PAS to 1, if I push the throttle all the way it still wants to take me to 20mph. One thing I didn't realize during my test drive a few weeks ago is that I thought the throttle was an on/off switch. But it does offer some proportional control. It's just not refined well at all. If you try to hold the throttle at say the half-way point, the motor is very stuttery, speeding up and slowing down.

I really wanted that top speed with throttle only to be something I could set. But I can't.

And one final comment. Although at first I was glad not to have shocks on the front forks, now I wish I had them.

Oh and one other thing. You were talking about degrees of laziness. I can tell you that the three of us that tried it this evening were all maxed out on the laziness scale

 

[Smaug]

Well, for some of those items, all I can say is "I told you so!"

You will get used to it though. The kids enjoy just hitting the throttle all the time and not pedaling; they feel like they're getting away with something.

Yes, it's a good habit to shift down to PAS 1 or 2 when you come to a stop. My daughters like to set the PAS just below a speed that lets them keep up with me and either pedal the difference or dial in a little throttle as needed to keep up.

I find the thumb throttle is safer than twist throttles; less likely to be actuated by accident. But as you say, harder to modulate to a particular speed. When I use it the most is when I'm cruising at 10-15 and I'm approaching a stale green light. Then, I hammer the throttle and pedal my butt off to make it through before the yellow.

Last week, there was one hot, muggy day and my battery was at 100%. (where it's not good to stay for long) I absolutely didn't want to get to work sweaty, so I throttled the whole way. I felt so guilty!

Good to know about Best Buy screwing it up. I had some hope when I saw that Aventon was going to Best Buy, but now that is dashed. It seems like mail order only. Some motorcycle dealers are carrying Aventon now. I think I told you I bought mine from an Indian dealer.

Have fun and share some pix with us!

 

[ecrawler]

I'd say it's a pretty big hit at the moment, and we're still pretty maxed out on the laziness end of the spectrum.

Still perturbed that the max speed with the throttle can't be adjusted. I want to dig into exactly how it works. Might find the right place in these forums to post a few questions.

I see it's a 3-wire system. I read somewhere that when connected it receives 0V and 5V from the controller, and provides back a signal in the range of 1.1V to 4V. I thought maybe the throttle might be a simple circuit that uses a potentiometer and resistors to divide the voltage, but checking it tonight with a meter that doesn't seem to be the case. Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily want to risk warranty stuff, but I'd still like to understand if I can have way to limit the control signal voltage from the throttle back to the controller. If I post the question in the right place in these forums, I might get a clever answer from someone in the ebike forum resident geek squad. (I mean that definitely as a compliment). Or...maybe the old fashion way and try to limit the travel range of the throttle / I'm not a huge fan of that approach.

Still getting used to charging the battery. For such a large and expensive battery, I'm kind of surprised it doesn't have a better system built in to let you know more precisely how far it's charged. So far we've mostly been charging it outside of the bike, but we may get setup better in the garage to charge it there. I'm just concerned we'll forget it's charging and just leave it on there for way too long.

 

[Smaug]

You don’t need to worry Scott charging or too long. It will never overcharge with the stock chargers.

Lithium chargers are constant current, then when the max slowed voltage is reached, it stays there and reduces the charge current gradually, until it gets low enough that the controller considers it fully charged.