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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RR_Texan" data-source="post: 8353" data-attributes="member: 1166">I first road an emtb a few months ago. My brother bought it for his wife and we road it a bit on the trails and really liked it.About a month ago I got a 2017 Raleigh Tokul IE off EBay for a very good price, it had ~250 miles on it and some cosmetic issues. I assume they were rentals. As the first scratch is always the most painful, I now don't have to go through that pain <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />I live in the middle of no-where Virginia, have hundreds of miles of single track trails very near my house. I like technical, single track, isolated trails. I'm getting back into MTB after a 25 year break, which is why I moved here. I also have a 2017 Tokul 3.Pros:- I can ride steeper long trails than I can do on my Tokul 3- My cardio is getting better as I am willing to ride more often, I find that I use less assistance as I ride more. I use the lowest assist level that keeps me in my cardio range, i.e. - so I can talk- I do a lot of trail maintenance in my area, as the forest service doesn't have time to do it. Turns out you just need to fill out a few forms and you can do trail maintenance. The additional weigh of adding maintenance equipment to my pack doesn't really matter- many of the trails I ride have deep leaves, mud. You tend to spin in these areas and the emtb helps you maintain movement instead of just getting stuck.- it is fun to not dread "the hill". I can make it as ease/painful as I like.Cons:- it is difficult to gauge how tired you are. I tend to ride more, and get more tired on the emtb. To the point I can hardly stand when I get off the bike.- the motor can be heard, it isn't very loud, but I like the solitude of the trails- the bike is much heavier and less nimble. This can be a bit more difficult on technical areas.- The front sprocket of the Bosch drives is very small. It is geared so not directly connected to the front sprocket. I find that the chain can get caught between the tire and the chainstay as it bounces around. It is very close to the front of the rear tire. There is no back spinning of the freewheel, so you have to stop and roll the bike backwards to clear the chain. You really have to be in the third gear to have the chain be far enough away from the tire to go downhill without binding the chain.- the chain jumps off the front sprocket.- Bosch eMTB mode is unnatural feeling to ride. I don't use it. The Shimano solution is much better.- No water bottle braze-ons.For the chain issues do not exist for my Tokul 3, I've never dropped an chain or gotten it caught in the rear tire. It also doesn't happen on the Cannondale Emtb my brother has, as it has the shimano motor and a full size from sprocket. This combo keep the chain away from the read tire.The Shimano software/experience is nicer than the Bosch. The Shimano makes it feel as if you aren't even getting any assist, you can't feel it "kick in". It is more natural feeling as if you have the leg of a professional biker. The Bosch can be a bit surgy. You can really feel the transition to assist. They have an eMTB mode that is supposed to dynamically provide boost. I find it annoying and don't use it.I've not found much posted on the Tokul IE.david</blockquote>

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