1,800W & 3,000W brushless motors with 20S to 24S - 18 ah LTOs and brush chain drives.

curtis

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I will be working on a custom build for my brushless motor. It is currently on a 20" BMX style bike and since I have no welding skills, I used wood. Recently I acquired a wire welder and want to weld a steel plate to replace the wood. However, need to be able to loosen the chain to change a flat tire and need a couple inches and a way to keep the chain tight. The controller is 1,500W and runs 36 to 48V. 38 amps. 48V * 38 amps = 1,824W total. Gearing will be around 35 to 36 mph.

I ran the bike before with a 30 amp 1,200W lion battery which was 13S - 7P. Top speed was 28 mph. I also ran it with 16S - LIFEPO4 - 5P but the cells were not top quality and was considerable voltage sag and 25 mph was the top speed. I am not sure if I will be using the 20" frame as mounting 20S - LTO will be a challenge. It needs to be low center of gravity. Also, I am only 5 feet 8 inches so do not want it to be over 24" bike.

It is a summer project. I also have a 3,000W brushless motor that needs to be built. I have a 70-amp 60V controller for that. I have two working 8S - LTO packs both with active cell balancers and 8 - LTOs left over. I bought two 4S active balancers for 50V or 60V. The problem is the weight and mounting options.

I will keep posting when I start making progress.

Thanks.

Curtis out.
 

curtis

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Yea.

Looking at swapping motors. I removed the 1,800W brushless motor from the 20" BMX. I still need a piece of #40 roller chain. I have a 26" Currie eZip Trailz. My first e bike purchased at Wall-Mart back in 2013. I have had about half a dozen motors on it and currently has a 36V - 1,000W unite brush chain drive in the rear and 350W Bafang up front. The problem with it is someone lied when they rated the motor at 3,000 rpm @ 36V.

I do not see it. I had two 48V - 3,000 rpm 1,000W motors in the past which ran circles around this 36V lie. Much greater acceleration and about 5 or 6 mph faster top speed. I am not sure, but gearing is supposed to be for 28 mph. IT might do it but takes forever. It acts over-geared. I had a 40 amp controller and did not hit more than 28 mph.

The 1,800W brushless motor is 3,000 rpms at 48V. - 1,500W and geared for 35 mph @ 40V - LTO - 2,500 rpm That is with a 26" wheel.

The 20" bike will get the 36V - brush - 1,000W - 3,000 rpm ????? in the rear with a 89T wheel and 11T motor - #25 chain. 20" wheel is only 22 mph. If it goes faster, I know it is over geared.

I won't be finished there though. I am looking at an 800W - 36V brush Unite motor up front. It is 2,750 rpm at 36V. With an 80T #25 sprocket I will get 22 mph as well.

The interesting part however is they can handle 50V - LTO which will net 30 mph and a whopping 1,388 + 1111 = 2,499 watts. I plan on full brake upgrades and using it for steady 25 to 27 mph cruising. With two motors and controllers sharing the load and heat dissipation it should hold up and be reliable plus long lasting.

As for the others I will be removing the front Bafang from both the Currie and 26" Dual suspension. The 26" dual suspension with rhe 48V 1,000W direct drive will see 60V - LTO. 1,250W and 32 mph. I have a third Bafang motor so would like a trike. I want two front wheels though. Thinking about bolting two forks to one. Then I can run two Bafangs up front and one in the rear. All off one throttle.

I ran dual Bafangs today for almost 15 miles with my 16S - LTOs. My vintage 90s Diamondback Outlook. top speed is limited to 20 mph but the Bafang motors seem to be reliable work horses.

I will post when more progress is made.


Thanks.

Curtis out
 

CloneWerks

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Whew, 2500 watts, that's pushing 3.5 horsepower on a bicycle frame. If you do that you are braver than me.
 

curtis

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Well.

It is about thumb throttles. I use a single thumb throttle for dual 350W Bafangs.

I had two motors on the same 20" BMX about 5 years ago. A 500W - 2,500 rpm 24V and the 800W - 36V - 2,750 rpm 36V both brushed. At 36V it was 20+ mph. At 48V 30+. two throttles. The front 2,750W motor was with a 60T #410 chain. The 24V - 2,500W motor sported #25 chain and 80T wheel sprocket. Basically, was same thing I am building but will be experimenting with single vs dual throttles.

I took both motors off for the 1,800W brushless motor. That is why the 1,800W brushless motor on the Currie is a huge upgrade from the wimpy over geared motor.

But that s**tty motor working with another almost equal and over volted will equal an animal capable of 30 mph quickly. > 2 kilowatts. Just use the throttle to control it. Should work with single throttle. Take it easy. lol. 48V is like turbo mode. Do 36V first 20+ mph gearing then switch to 48 or 50V. lol

The sprockets, chains and other parts I already have. Except for a left thread nut for motor sprocket and a piece of #40 roller chain.

Thanks for posting. I will do pics. and video when I start building.

Not sure what building first. I have three running but want to upgrade two. Then start working on the others.

Thanks.

Curtis out.
 

curtis

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Looking at my 3,000W brushless motor which is 60V - 4,800 rpm @ 50V - LTO - 4,000 rpm.
The Boma controller works from 48 - 72V. 3,000W / 60 * 50 = 2,500W.
That is for a 20" wheel. For a 26" wheel I will need a 10T motor and 72T wheel 8mm sprocket for 43 mph gearing.
Not sure which way I am going with it.

The 1,800W brushless motor is 3,000 rpm @ 48V but the controller is only 38 amps so 38 * 50 = 1,900. 39 mph gearing with a 24" rear wheel and 11T motor and 60T wheel. I could use the 3,000W controller with the 1,800W motor though and get 2,500W to the motor @ 50V - LTO and if I use a 26"-wheel 42 mph gearing.

I am not sure which way I am going with it. I might try 48V - 1,900W and 39 mph gearing first and see how it runs.

Thanks.

Curtis out.
 

curtis

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The 1,800W brushless motor will go back on the little 20" BMX bike. I could not install the 1,000W - 36V brush chain drive as no good 20" rear wheels. One has a loose axle due to bearings I think, and the other wheel needs true and the bike shop wants me to drop it off and pick up a week or two later. I will be using the 20" wheel with the 56T sprocket that was on it. It is a spoke sprocket, and I added a second rubber piece to allow extra room for the thicker #40 chain.

I will install the 3,000W brushless motor on the Currie and the 1,000W and 800W - 36V chain drives on the Haro V3 later. That is the game plan for now. I have bills to catch up on and a budget to work on before I can order more parts online. I am hoping for 35 mph with the 1,800W brushless motor soon. The motor is re-installed and got a nut for the new #40 - 11T motor sprocket. The wheel sprocket is re-installed so just need to get #40 chain at the tractor supply store and find my chain breaker in storage. Then re-install the 1,500W 48V - 38 amp controller.

Thanks.

Curtis out.
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curtis

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making progress. 16S - LTO - 40V there. The controller is 36 to 48V.

yea. it is wide. over 13-1/2 " No pedal chain so the pedal in the front is an issue. Just a tad uncomfortable.

It could be solved though by extending the pedal out about 3 or 4"

With the sturdy rear rack, a large cargo basket is possible. The 4S - LTO pack can fit behind the seat as the 10-gauge series cables will easily reach.

I ran 20S - 50V - LTO with the 26" dual suspension with the 1000W - DD hub and 350W Bafang up front. It has one broken spoke and sitting in storage. I will replace before riding it. Way too much weight with 37 pounds of LTOs and my 230 or so.

I have the 20" - 800W - DD in storage with 5 broken spokes. I need to replace some, maybe all the spokes due to rust. I know a bike shop that will make them for 2 bucks a piece. It is too far so will mail them out and fix both hub motors.

The 20" will go on the front with the stock 1.000W controller that came with the 26" - DD. The 26" - DD is run by a 1,000W 35-amp sensor less.

The 20" hub in the front will easily achieve 24 maybe 25 mph. The 1,800W brushless motor 35 mph. I can start out with the front hub and then kick in the back It should pull hard from 0 to 25 mph and after that wont need the front motor so will just hit the left throttle for the 1,800W brushless motor.

However up hills they will really help each other out and will climb the hill quicker than most single motor e bikes and a lot of gas as well.
Other reason for a front hub is if rear OR front system failure. Only thing they will share are the LTO batteries. separate throttles / motors and controllers. DC breakers also. It reduces the chance of being stranded or pushing a heavy e bike down the road.

1,800W + 1,000W = 2,800W. 35 mph gearing. I will test it soon with just the rear chain. It could take a week or so before I get the hub motor fixed but have the controller and torque arms as well as DC switch and 10-gauge wiring.

Thanks.

Curtis out.
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curtis

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yea.

Making a few changes.

Perfect place to put controller. closer to the DC breaker which will go on the handlebar. I need to solder 10 gauge wire and find ring terminals for the breaker. Then bolt down the rear board and find a black milk crate for a rear basket. The 4S - LTO will go back there for 50 working volts of LTO. Also, easier to cover with a tarp to keep water out.

Also, the rear rack was a terrible spot for the controller. Now if I have to adjust the motor alignment or change the rear tube / tire it is just one bolt attaching the rear rack to the seat post and removing the seat.

Curtis out.


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curtis

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32.5 mph on GPS speed phone app.

:unsure:

I guess it could be the chain is rubbing against the frame. , too tight or something.

:confused:

o_O

:)

Gearing was for 35 mph (sept 4, 2022 above) so the stretch of road could add or subtract from top speed. Seemed faster at full throttle on way back but phone was dead. 12% on the way but 32.5 mph top speed. GPS also has some lag as only maintained that speed a few seconds. I would have :cry: if it did not hit 30 mph. It is the fastest I ever traveled on two wheels. (Flat stretch of road) At least 1/8 mile after a downgrade. farther if major downhill. Marinating speed on flat ground. Never rode a gas motor bike. Pedal most of my life and now electric since around 2013.

Had to grind the frame for chain clearance. Uninstalled and re installed several more times for alignment. Tried to order a 415 sprocket from electric scooter parts for 415 chain but card address error. I need to change address at my bank. Need a separate card for online orders anyway.

420 chain at tractor supply is wider and hits the frame so took a grinder to it. Still hits a little. It clicks but don't get worse when full throttle. Need to reinforce the other side / outside. A piece of flat 1/3" steel could work. ?????. Should grind another 1/16" or so but sick of working on it.
The main bolts are getting stripped and won't keep supporting. I will need to replace / start over the wood mounting bracket. It is running and using Lucas chain lube.

Got a wire welder. 90 amps.

I know one thing. Brushless chain drives RULE. Serious power and like a built in Jake brake. It slows down when no throttle. Coasts slower downhill than brush motors. Good to have if you do not have adequate brakes.

I still have the 3,000W brushless motor / controller and 70-amp controller. :D

I know I can go 40 mph when I want to. Especially running Lishen 18 Ah - LTOs. > or = to Tesla batteries.

Not sure if I want to though. :eek:

worst case scenario. Roadkill / pizza.

I may want to invest in a good crash helmet first. :LOL:

maybe life insurance. :LOL:

Curtis out.
 

curtis

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No luck learning how to weld to reenforce the frame. I will need to go with plan B which is the strongest grade bolts I can find and some flat steel bar on the outside and then grind another 1/8" to stop the clinging where the chain hits on the 20" bike with the 1,800W bruhless motor.

I worked on the Currie today. I reinstalled the 750W - 36V gear reduction motor. There is a 350W - 36V Bafang up front. Total power at 50V will be 1,486W. - 1,000W from the rear chain and 486 from the front Bafang. I did this instead of the 3,000W brushless motor as I do not have a card to order a 72T - 8mm wheel sprocket for the 24" wheel.

I can't afford it as saving up to buy a car for $650. I already have the stock 26" Currie wheel with the cassette on the right and 20T left thread freewheel on the other side for pedal so two motors + pedal. :) The 3,000W motor is 4,800 rpm so for proper gearing a 20" wheel and 72T - 8mm sprocket is required. Any larger wheel will need a custom sprocket 95T minimum.

Also gearing for the rear chain and front Bafang is close. About 2 mph difference. The Bafang is 20 mph @ 36V so 20 mph / 36 = 0.555 * 50 = 27.7 mph. The rear chain is gear reduction so 480 rpm, 480 / 36 = 13.3 * 50 =



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They should work great together and have a pair of wide knobby tires for winter. The motor is installed. I just need a master link for the chain and will upgrade the wiring.

Thanks.

LC. out.

3:48 AM. - 9 - 25 - 22.

Yea. 3 speed standard bike chain for the Currie. I bought it in 2013. Ezip Trailz. My first e bike. Built dozens since and 5 running currently, 7 or 8 potentially with the parts I have.

Stock Currie was the 450W - 24V gear reduction motor. Now a 750W gear reduction motor in the rear and Bafang up front. The testing was just a few minutes ago for full throttle both front and rear. Two throttles. Like the 26" Dual Suspension you can feel the front motor kick in for acceleration even at full throttle for > 20 seconds. Up any incline where the bike is < 25 mph is very noticeable full throttle. They are working together at 40V.

When I left my friend's house 1.5 miles away or so it was starting to rain and lightning bolts were bouncing around. I went all out full both throttles most of the way. Only slowing down little during inter sections when I had to, All I had was my hoody to cover s**t up so was not Lolly gagging around. The 750W chain drive did the trick.

I just tightened everything up. It was only a little bit looser than before I took the ride, not much. Virgin install. A good sign the installation was proper. When installing a chain drive 90% of the time it fails in a few feet or block or two at most if not properly installed. All pipe clamps and carriage bolts. Phone is dead and until I find the charge cable no pictures, but installation was a success the first try. Like the 1,800W brushless motor build I use braces and pipe clamps to reinforce carriage bolts.

Not your standard build and unorthodox but until I learn to weld and acquire the proper steel mounting brackets/hardware I use PT. wood and carriage bolts and steel pipe clamps for support.

I got thick steel flat bar for the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor. I also got grade 8 1/4" bolts and using that and smll pipe clamps to reinforce the outside frame so can grind another 1/8" for chain clearance as the clinging drives me nuts. I will be very happy when both e bikes are 100%.

First, I will be upgrading the wiring and swapping the wimpy 36V - 1,000W controller for a 48V - 1,000W controller for the Currie. Then I will work on the 20" e bike. I will eventually post pictures here and some video on and off board. I have a power meter that displays watts, amps and voltage. Since a single battery for the dual motor Currie, it will be interesting data.

I could swap the 3,000W motor for the 1,800W but thinking about a separate 20" build. I have a Stingray chopper frame, but it needs some serious welding. I think a 24" wheel goes in the front and the 20" wheel I got is an extra wide rim for a fat tire. in the back :)
I will need chopper forks as well as a seat and handlebars plus brakes. A lot of work. A winter project.

The first 5 attachments are the 26" e zip build. The tire on the back is wide. The rim wider than the front stock Bafang rim so might not be able to put the matching tire of the one that is in the rear but will find something which is similar but slightly narrower to fit. I mounted the controllers close together so the wires would be shorter.

For the 60-amp breaker for the 1.000W rear motor / 40-amp controller I used double 16-gauge speaker wire. Negative and positive so four strands * 16 gauge. Only two for the 18-amp controller. 2 * 16 gauge. The reason I did not use 10 gauge was I could not find my solder and 10 gauge is way too stiff to do it without solder. I had to compromise. As soon as I find decent 40 / 60 lead solder I will upgrade the motor wires. They are currently 2 * 16 gauge for each. I will replace each with 10 gauge.

The last three attachments on the bottom show the 20" build with the 1,800W brushless motor and extra wide #40 motorcycle chain. I used a drill attachment and a file to get the chain clearance I needed. I am very happy I did not need to take of the chain and have to wrestle with it to make it line up again as it is perfectly lined up. It was just clinking on the frame.

I decided NOT to drill holes thru the frame for the 1/4" grade 8 bolts as drilling those holes could further weaken the frame. Instead, I cut a 3/8" thick 4 - 1/2" long piece for the top and 3 - 1/2" piece for the bottom and used the steel hose / pipe clamps one on each side of the parts of the frame I grinded and filed down for chain clearance.

I am very happy with the final result. I have a can of flat black rust oleum paint and plan on taking it outside tomorrow to hit those spots I grinded and filed to stop any future rust. I am looking for acrylic primer and paint for the wood also. That and a better tire on the front of the Currie and both projects will be done. I will take the Currie to storage for room for my next project. Probably will be taking a break for a while and enjoy riding. The 20" bike will be my main ride as takes up less room in my 450 square foot apartment.

Thanks.

Curtis out.
 

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